Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters On The Cheap-- 223 Small Game Loads

Calling Seafire, Rocky, and others.

I started running low on reloading projects a couple of weeks ago. I've got until about Mar 1 to fill before I can start getting down to the farm and chase turkeys. I've had all sorts of goofy projects come into my head, but one that percolated to the top was to finally get around to finding the cheapest alternative to 22 LR.

First off, I'm not knocking .22 LR. I've shot buckets of the stuff over the years. I have a slew of pistols and rifles. There are two problems with 22LR in my context. First, the ammo is the weak link in coming up with an accurate load. Second, the ammo is generally not reloadable. I don't mean to get into an argument with you on these two points. I'm just saying those were my reasons for excluding 22 LR.

9X19 mm seems to be the cheapest centerfire round out there, but nobody is making a 9mm bolt gun or a 9mm single shot. I have a 9mm carbine, and it does okay out to 75 yards, but it doesn't afford a good platform for accuracy.

As best as I can tell, 223 REM is the way to go for my project. I've got several rifles and 2 of them are bolt guns. I've got two sets of dies.

First off, as a platform for cheap plinking with a rifle, is there anything better?

My criteria:
1) Centerfire
2) Reloadable
3) Accuracy not limited by the cartridge design
4) Cheap and affordable components.


The only other candidates I can think of would be a 22 Hornet. A new rifle, new dies, etc. all put together, and I still have kind of a weak relative of the .223 REM. The other option might be Herr Regwell's 6X45, but I'd rather not get into a custom rifle, dies, etc. That sounds like an expensive way to shoot on the cheap.

Then it dawned on me that I had a pound of Bullseye laying about that I'd bought for a similar project, and I went back and found:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/13496394/1

I had originally thought about playing with light bullets, but the 55 grain FMJs are the cheapest to get. Even casting lead, 55 grain seems to be where it's at. Cool, I'm fine with that. I've got boxes of cheap military brass. .17 bullets are about 25% more expensive. So are sub-45 grain varmint 223s.

BTW: Jump in here if you know of a cheaper solution, given the criteria.

So, I'm going to finally play with "small game loads" in the .223 REM using pistol powder. My goal is to make holes in paper that are close to each other at 100 yards, and if a stray groundhog or starling wanders onto the field, I might take a poke at them. The only reason I'm picking 100 yards is I have a good solution for mounting targets at 100 yards, and 50 yards is kind of jenky.

My big question to y'all that I don't have an answer before is what load? I know I can start at 22 LR velocities and work up to 223 REM. However, what's going to be a good place to start when looking for an accuracy. I plan to work off primed brass and load at the bench, so I can start anywhere on the spectrum. Second, folks seem to use any sort of primer that would fit in a .223's pocket. What are your favorites?

Once I have a pet load developed, my next goal is to take my Hornady LNL AutoProgressive and run up a metric $hit-ton of the stuff and make this the official shamanic plinking load.

I have a cz527 in 223. Midwayusa has a 46 grain hollow point for 22 hornet.. Loaded with a moderate charge of RL7 or IMR 4198 shoot very small groups, quietly.

I’ve never owned a 22 magnum, but I’ve got a real itch to get one, but the practical side of me says download the 223 with IMR 4198 to bunny thumper velocity.
I’m familiar with the blue dot loads and have used them for years at 12 to 13 grains but my stash of blue dot is almost gone and I’ve got plenty of 4198.

.22 magnum.
Downloading .223 isnt worth the hassle IMHO.

Nothing wrong with your goal! In .223 I've used Unique and Red Dot for loads in the 1600-1700 range, with 55gr. cast bullets with squirrel-capable accuracy. Never tried that trick with jacketed bullets - no need to when you have a bunch of .22 caliber molds and a ton of lead - but I don't see why you couldn't.

Never tried Bullseye but would do so by lowering Red Dot data by a couple 1/10's of a grain as BE is ever so slightly faster burning than Red Dot. My Red Dot load was 5.0gr./55gr.cast, for around 1700fps. If all I had was Bullseye I would drop to something like 4.8-4.9 grains. Pressures shouldn't be too much different with jacketed, which is say low enough regardless so as not to be a concern. Just don't go too low speed with jacketed - risk of sticking one in a bore is real. Ask me how I know.

If .22 caliber catches your fancy for the role you describe, the .22 Hornet is the classic choice. 2.5 grains Bullseye and a 40-50 gr. cast bullet yields a load kind of like a HV .22LR. Up it a tad to 5gr. Unique or 6 gr. 2400 and you have a .22WRM. I'm sure similar results can be had with jacketed bullets, but why pay for bullets?

If you don't have a copy, get a Lyman manual. It lists reduced loads for everything, but does so with cast bullets not jacketed. Still, it's a valuable resource and powder charges can be extrapolated for jacketed stuff. The Lyman Cast Bullet Manual is even better in that regard.

All that said, for my money if I were building a purpose-built centerfire plinker, small game/close-up small varmint rifle I would do so with a rifle built around the .32 pistol cartridge, and buy a 100 grain bullet mold. Oh wait, I am doing that! (Ballard #2 action with a lined barrel, .32 S&W Long.) Lots of potential donors out there for doing something similar -break-open single shots, Martini's, etc., use your imagination. Not my first rodeo with a .32 plinker rifle - loaded with 1.5-2.0 grains Bullseye and have an accurate noiseless plinker squirrel load out of a long rifle barrel, ridiculously cheap to load. Up the game to 3gr. Unique for 900fps+ of smack out of a rifle, and get the attention of a critter out to 100 yards.

Seafire has done a LOT of that kind of thing - and I believe Digital Dan can help as well.

500 yard 22LR is available.

Yeah, sadly the Commonwealth of KY says I can't use centerfire on tree rats-- only rimfire. Otherwise I'd have explored this long ago.

Right now, I'm thinking this project in terms of hole-punching with the emphasis on thrift. There's bound to be other applications later on. I like the idea of taking a single-shot and relining it.

Q: In regards to sticking on in the barrel, I figure if I start out at the high end of 22 LR velocity and work up, I'll never get into the danger zone. N'est pas?

I thought of 7.62x39 and 300 blackout as well

Yes, and a chronograph is your friend when seeing how low you can go in this regard.

Shame about not being able to use it for squirrels. On the other hand it's illegal only if you get caught......

I thought of 7.62X39. If I had a 5 gallon bucket of 7.62X39 brass laying about, I'd prolly be thinking about it. For me, it'd be an extra expense, because I don't own the gun, or dies to do the job either. Bullets?

I just bought an extra batch of 500 223 FMJs for about 50 bucks-- $.10/round. The cheapest jacketed .311 plinker I'm seeing is $.27 a round and the cheapest .308 is about $.14-$.17.

My son found a .32 flinter last year that is giving me ideas as well. Probably the next time I increase my squirrel battery, it's going to be something like this.



Now THAT is budget plinking with a side of squirrel brains thrown in.

tag

Not to be a party pooper, but unless someone already has a stash of primers and powder, purchased during better times, the cost of those loads is going to be pretty close to .22 mag factory ammo, currently .$23-$.30 a pop if you shop around online. Figure primers at about $.09 once hazmat is figured in, softpoint jacketed at $.12-$.15 (FMJ may still be illegal in some places for hunting, and requires some care to avoid ricochets). Add the cost of even a smidgen of powder and a penny or two for each loading for the brass and you’re working for free, so to speak. An accurate .22 Mag can use ammo with bullets weighing from 20-something to 50gr, at velocities from about 1150 to 2200, if you count WRF, and some non-toxic stuff too.

I have an accurate .22 Hornet and have worked up some loads for special jobs like turkeys, but for niche performance, not economy. In the very unlikely event I ever get caught short on RF ammo in the future, I have data, courtesy of Mule Deer, and components, but I just don’t see that happening as I’ve prepared ahead. For carefree plinking when something with more oomph than .22LR is needed, I’m going with my .22 mag AR that cost me maybe $500 with transfer fee, shipping, and a couple magazines, optics separate. While I just got started, I have enough of the two ammo types I’m going with to see me through most market blips.

A lot of truth to this. With current prices I can think of be trying to load down when I can buy 2 factory loaded .22s for the price of 1 primer. Even the expensive stuff doesn’t make sense $$ wise when you look at components

Gnoahhh shared some good thoughts, maybe I can toss in another few.

Cast bullets are cheaper than jacketed. Fella can scrounge or buy pure lead cheap enough, and with a bit of luck these days find some good wheel weights. 7,000 grains to a pound, so a 45 grain cast bullet will give you about 150 bullets. Lead's going for $2-3/pound so we're talking about 2-3 cents per round.

Case volume is the conundrum with light loads, and small case capacity is your friend when it comes to making accurate ammo. An option to remedy conflicts is to use heavy bullets in some cases. Another option in this puzzle is to load lead round balls with light charges.

.30 Sneezer w/round balls (.310" sized to .309")



I also loaded 5 rounds with Lord Black and the roundballs. They shot better groups but were cooking along at 1440 fps avg. for 5 shots.


.30 Sneezer w/180 gr cast at 20 yards


Were I in pursuit of your objectives I'd put the 5.56/.223 on the back burner, and consider a single shot with a more amenable case size. You may note the powder charge in some of the targets. Lead is cheap, a very few grains of powder is also. If you're really feeling inspired you can recharge primers as well.

Yeah the primers are the wild card these days, but that's a factor that cuts evenly across the board no matter what you load. So even retail prices for primers plus a couple pennies for powder it's still only half of retail for .22 mags. I honestly don't know a soul who builds light centerfire loads with jacketed bullets, but I know quite a few who make and shoot cast ones. I really don't understand the fear/aversion/reluctance/laziness guys have about not wanting to cast and shoot their own bullets.

As far as lead cost goes , I honestly can't remember the last time I actually bought lead. Tin yes, but not lead. I categorically don't factor in lead costs when I make cast bullet ammo. (And yes, I also have a metric sh*t ton of jacketed stuff on my shelves, it's just that I shoot fewer of them with each passing year and some of them have a deep layer of dust on them.) Basically I refuse to be a slave to the bullet companies, when I can help it.

Yup. Round balls are the ultimate in cheap shooting. Don't even need a press or dies.

Not every shot one fires has to be a barn burner. You're no less of a macho he-man if you shoot reduced loads.

Blue dot..........Trail Boss

Seafire will tell ya

It’s always the money with you, ain’t it you old skinflint?😜

Anyway, shaman was the one that started with the jacketed slugs. For me, it’s time; I have too much other stuff I want to do to bother with trying to coax accurate bullets out of raw materials. I’ve noticed most of the guys who talk about how easy it is to scrounge free lead are already sitting on small mountains of the stuff. Besides, I’ll likely never shoot up all the bullets I already have (like you and your lead), jacketed and commercial cast. I admire the art of casting, especially Dan and his jewel-like beauties, but I’m on another path.

I like your idea about the .32, have thought about one often, just never found or had one built. I have just found an outfit that makes inserts for break action shotguns for a host of cartridges including the H&R, and might give one a try when the weather breaks and my new knee has settled in.

I've messed with a number of reduced loads in the .223 but the best was from our own JB...12.5 Gr of 4198 and a basic 55 gr Hornady SP..It gets about 1950 fps...essentially the same as a .22 mag.
Lots of cottontails have succumbed to head shots with that load, as its easily effective out to 100 yards.

Not the 223 but I’ve used Alliant 2400, IMR 4759 (discontinued) and IMR 4227 in the 22 Hornet, 221 Fireball and 222 Rem to work up 22 Magnum type loads with Speer’s 46 gr FP, Sierra’s 40 and 45 gr Hornet bullets. Winchester’s 22 MRF 40 gr JHPs worked at, or a little below 22 Mag velocities.

Yeah, cost saving is also a big factor. Has to be with me or my diet would be hot dogs and beans more often than it already is!

What about a .357/.38? Something like a Ruger 77/357. I would think mild, accurate, cheap loads would be easier to make up in .38 cases than .223. Of course, buying a new rifle doesn’t make alot of sense from a saving money standpoint.

If you are sticking with .223, I don’t think you will beat the cost of 55gr FMJ by reloading. Might as well just use a .22 mag.

We eat well here, but venison, some fish we catch, and the garden/orchard make up a goodly portion. My fun money goes for a couple or three rounds of clays each week, rum, and food for my yard pets. I oughta be able to claim those greedy little bastards on my taxes; $45 today for black oil seed, shelled corn, and ear corn. Pretty fun though when I go out each morning and whistle them in: squirrels, blue jays, and even a woodpecker or two. Always thought woodpeckers were kinda dumb, but they figured out the system here and come in when they hear the call.

Since my name has been mentioned a time or two in this thread....

First off, I don't shoot cast bullets.... don't have the time to play with them, but certainly have nothing against those that do. But if ya want a bunch of load data Shaman, rustle up some cast bullet manuals. If you buy used, they are only aboiut 20 bucks for a new one.. and much less if used.. Or if some of your campfire buddies have an extra one or two, that you can part with that would be perfect.

You can use cast bullet load data with jacketed bullets. because you will way below SAAMI specs anyway. Picking a 223 is a good choice. There are tons of smaller cartridges in 22 caliber, and you can use that data often in a 223 case... just use your head, and it should be no problem. If you are in doubt, I have an email or PM ability on here, so feel free to ask.

Like you can use 222 and 221 cast bullet data in a 223., right along with the 22 Hornet also. One doesn't need a lot of velocity for 100 yds, or even 150. There is a lot of pistol powders on the shelves, at least at places like Sportsmans Warehouse. If you find something, check to see where it is on a burn rate chart. If your manual has load data on another powder close to the same burn rate, start low and work up a little at time before you find something that you like.

A nice benefit of using these type of loads, besides the economy of resources is that you can usually see your hits within the scope because recoil can be reduced so much. In fact jacketed bullets slowed down can penetrate further and more consistently than at faster velocity. Just did a post somewhere on the campfire last night, about 223 on steel plates at 100 yds. 2600 fps with Blue Dot, would penetrate the plates at 100 yds.. where the same bullets fired at military Spec velocity for a 55 grain bullet, hit the plate and just splattered at 100 yds.

This time last year I was going over to the range from end of Jan or so, until early June, and ringing steel at 300 and 400 yrd, with some bolt 223s.. powder charge of 8 to 9.5 grains of Unique. 223s can be down loaded to 22 LR specs. It will cost more than than what 22s can do, but then again, I haven't bought 22 LR in quite a while.. say years. still sitting on a ton of those also. But then with the price of components, maybe not. I wouldn't know because I bought when prices dropped under Trump. I figured we'd have democRATs back in the White House, sooner or later. Didn't figure it would be sooner, but never underestimate a DemocRAT's ability to cheat on elections and then blame everyone else for doing so. JUST REMEMBER, WHEN A LIAR IS POINTING THE ACCUSATIONAL FIGURE AT EVERYONE ELSE, they have 3 of their other fingers pointing right back at themselves.

I've been doing this economy stuff for a decade or two. Between shooting 5000 plus ground squirrels every summer, and being a rifle instructor on the Rifle Shooting Merit Badge in Boy Scouts, come hunting season that fall, granddad or dad gives them old Betsy as a gift... so they have an excuse to go out and buy a new rifle for themselves... thinking the wife or grandma won't see thru that one. I did it for economy.. but also found it gives ya a lot of shooting practice, for less money, but also less wear and tear on your rifles. I've got bolt 223s that have 30 and 40,000 rounds of Blue Dot loads down the barrel and they are still minute of popcan off the bench out to 250 consistently, and 300 yds with a little luck and Kentucky Windage.

When I started, a box of 50 rounds for my 22 Mag was $7.00. I could load a 223, for alot less, with better accuracy, more choice of bullets by a long shot, and they were faster and reach out further. Plus they were more than just bang/flop on ground squirrels/ sage rats... you could explode the hell out of them. RED MIST is an addiction, believe me!

I often don't shoot a sage rat, I bounce the round right in front of them in the dirt. The Shrapnel from that, bounces up and hits them. Depending on their position at the time, it can blow them in parts 8 feet up in the air, or split them in half, send one half 20 yds to the right and the other 20 yrds to the left. You want to fire up a bunch of 12 year old scouts, let them watch you do that....

I'm not going to be like Schtick and claim " I shoot it all"...but I do have a lot of experience on the subject and have pulled the trigger on well over a 100,000 or 2 worth of these types of rounds... It will add flexibility to ANY firearm or caliber.

You do this enough, you'll learn to extrapolate 223, or 222 reduced loads, from pistol caliber data also.. but that is not necessarily for beginners.

If ya get an idea of what you are looking to do, send me a PM and we can come up with a solution with the resources you can find available, to accomplish your mission.

Thank you, Seafire, for making an appearance. If you don't mind, I'll ask my questions out here in public. Feel free to PM me answers as you see fit.

Is there any joy to be gained from playing with primers? Is there better accuracy with rifle or pistol primers?

Years ago, I bought myself a pound of Bluedot to do something like this. The chemo wiped my memory of it, and I had to go back and look up what I'd been asking about on here that would have gotten me to buy BlueDot. Your posts seemed to be the origin point. This year, the stars have aligned to take this project on.

Can you list the powders, besides BlueDot that you like for this sort of work? I see Unique, so I'd assume Universal might be usable. That's my go-to pistol powder.

Red Mist? Oh, you're talking to a believer. Back in my bachelor days, I used to hunt groundhogs with 223 Accelerator. Sadly, all the good chuck hunting I had is now gone. The farms became subdivisions. My current farm might see a chuck every few years, but coyotes and feral dogs keep them in tight check. My last shot at a chuck was 2016. The booger walked in front of the 100-yard target frame while I was sighting in a 25-06. We are rather vermin-poor around here. So much so, that I tried asking if there were methods of encouraging the bastids. Folks told me I didn't want to go there. I'd love for someone to send me a crate of prairie dogs or ground squirrels, or something else I could put out in the pasture and plink at.

In your experience, what velocity range gives the better accuracy? I'm not trying to mimic a 22 Mag or a 22 Hornet, etc. I just want a good target load for 55 grain FMJ. This project is bound to spawn follow-ons, but accuracy is the goal for now.

Bullet seating depth: any difference in approach from standard high-velocity loads?


This is more for the rest of y'all: The only reason why I started this project with jacketed bullets in mind was that I wanted to weed out as many impediments to accuracy as possible. Cast lead, has a whole lot more dials and switches to deal with: alloy, lube, powder coat, etc. I do this all the time, with my pistol calibers. Back during the Obama years, I decided to get all my 35-cal firearms tested out with lead. I have a lead deer load for my 35 Whelen and lead deer and plinking loads for my 1894 lever in 357 Mag.

As to buying a used single-shot, have y'all seen the bloody prices? Whoda thunk. Years ago, I wrote a piece about 10 reasons cheap break-opens were like having an ugly girlfriend. Now, they're priced for museums.

Good thread👍

Glad that load worked so well!

Did a bunch of experimenting with reduced handloads during the Great Obama Rimfire Shortage. Another one that worked very was in the .17 Hornady Hornet, designed to duplicate .17 Mach 2 ballistics. With 7.0 grains of A5744 it grouped into around half an inch at 100 yards from my CZ 527, at right around 2100 fps.

I’ve no doubt whatsoever that the OP’s quest can be satisfied with J-bullets and wish him the best. That said, I haven’t killed any critters with such modern components in this century. Was foolish enough to purchase a remarkable antique ML target rifle many moons ago and started casting and hammer swaging pure lead. Made by David Hall Hilliard in Cornish NH circa 1870, a .50 cal Union sniper rifle clone, and I managed to snare 2d place at a match in Cody, WY not long after. Thus was I snared.

To be sure there are things to avoid with cast, such as fast twists and high velocity. Since I fell into the cast bullet looney bin I’ve done a number of curious things, including a wildcat .30 and reloading a .22 LR clone. One hole groups are common, and pigs hate me. Oh well…

Never had the courage to fiddle with a .17 thought. I’m terrified by the thought of having to buy a .17 cleaning rod. 😱

Choose your path and pay attention to the details. Details are important. Billy Dixon understood this fine point.

Yeah, that's what ruined me--I bought a .17 cleaning rod after buying my first .17-caliber rifle--which was a CZ .17 HMR a year after the cartridge was introduced. (I generally waited at least a year before buying and testing a rifle in some super-special new cartridge back then, to see if it would last, at least few years. Some died pretty quickly.) The .17 rod gave me "permission" to buy a bunch of other .17 rifles, from the .17 Mach II to .17 Remington. The only two left are that .17 HMR and a CZ 527 in .17 Hornady Hornet.

Interestingly, the rod proved to be completely useless for the .17 HMR. I cleaned the bore after the first 500 rounds through the rifle--which didn't take long to shoot, since I live in ground squirrel/prairie dog country. With about any ammo it had grouped 5 shots in a half-inch or less at 100 yards, but after the cleaning they opened up to around 1-1/2" for maybe 10-15 rounds before the bore settled down again. Cleaned it again after another 500 rounds, and the same thing happened--which is why I haven't cleaned the bore since 2010--and the rifle just keeps shooting half-inch groups....

Seems like I remember that you wrote an article for Handloader about it.

Yep, and some of the loads appeared in Chapter 7 of The Big Book of Gun Gack II, "Reduced Loads."

Is the 12.5 4198 load for H o IMR or does it matter? Thanks. Bob

They were using IMR 4198. I would imagine you could try the Hodgdon version as well.

Either one, but in my experience, the most accurate with the smaller groups, goes to the IMR version..
that is why I stock and shoot a lot of that over the Hodgdon version...

9 grains of Unique, will give you the same velocity... the 4198s are not position sensitive at that charge level (12.5 grains)...
but you might have soot blow back on your case.. which a little steel wool takes care of that each reload. I carry some in my kit out in the field and just clean off a case after each shot.

9 grain of Unique gives some pretty darn accurate loads with jacketed bullets in each of my 223s.

its just more economical, and being a bulky powder, seems to just keep the cases from needing to be cleaned off from the soot blow back

Shaman,

I've been testing a lot of different shot gun and pistol powders with the 223, for these types of loads.

Expanding out my knowledge, using what ever powders I can find on the shelves. Cast bullet manuals are your friend, especially older ones, IMHO. They work just fine with jacketed bullets, as you are way under SAAMI pressure specs anyway.

I'm finding that a lot of these powders, really aren't that finicky about keeping the bore that clean. I can shoot 500 rounds plus a day in the varmint fields here after sage rats. If accuracy declines, I just run a bore snake thru the barrel and life is back to normal.

Most of these types of powders tho, even on days where I can run thru 500 rounds in an afternoon, I single shoot the bolt action rifle. Averaging 2 or 3 shots every couple of minutes, I've taken a sporter barrel bolt 223 over to Klamath to shoot, and never had to let the barrel cool down using these shot gun and pistol powders. Many times I don't even have to run a bore snake down the barrel, AS they seem to burn pretty darn clean, that I don't lose accuracy. Minute of sage rat so to speak. I've got 223 barrels with 25,000 to 30,000 plus rounds down them... to include an ADL Remington.

Even in hunting rifles for say deer, I've gotten PMs on the campfire over the years, where someone is telling me old Betsy is getting a little inaccurate these days after a couple decades of service. The owner is in their late 70s, and don't really want to spend the money on a rebarrel. So they will ask about the accuracy, using shot gun and pistol powders.

These type of loads, are not that finicky, and still will attain 30/30 MVs, and it has stretched out the mileage on old Betsy's barrel long enough for them to finish their hunting days, while still having the accuracy to pass the rifle on down to a son, or grandson.... As with anything , YMMV, but seeing it stretch out the accuracy life in some high mileage barrels.. quit a few actually, it made me a believer and is another reason why I shoot a lot of this stuff....

Why look a gift horse in the mouth, if it still works and accomplishes the job, as long as you don't need a screaming MV.
As I say, I don't need a thousand yard capable load, that will drop an elk at that distance... to shoot some 100 lb blacktail at 100 yds or so... and the lessen recoil makes shooting easier to place your shots where you want them to go. I've got folks around the local area, that asked me this stuff long ago.. and to this day still use a charge of 10 grains of Unique in a 30/30, 308, 300 Savage and 30/06 with a 110 grain SP to a 125 grain SP/ or HP to take a deer each season.... there are enough of them migrating thru their yards each hunting season....

How about a .350 legend based single shot? 9mm bullet and .223 brass blown out was the original idea...would think super cheap to hunting loads could be done easy enough with lead bullets and a puff of powder. Hope to retire someday soon and chase such problems. I suspect we may be close enough to each other if you want to grab the CVA single shot I have here and do the work for me...

Thanks for the kind offer.

The reason I picked 223 REM for this project, was I wasn't going to have to buy anything to get started. However, you do present an interesting idea: 9mm pistol bullets in a 350 Legend as a cheap plinker. It has definite merit.

BTW: I'm down at the farm today. I brought all the fixins for my first attempt. This includes my RAR Predator in 223 and 100 rounds of primed brass.

Another thought in this:

As it stands at the moment, there really is not a good repository of 223 REM reduced load info.
Granted, about once a year, Seafire's thread gets resurrected in some form or other. However, to my knowledge, nobody has made this a sticky in any of the sub-forums. If not, please point the way. This topic deserves to be stickied somewhere.

Furthermore, if memory serves, Rocky Raab used to have a section of his website devoted to this sort of thing. It's now gone.

If folks wanted to help on a project, I would be willing to use what I know about this sort of thing to make a permanent repository of loads for reduced 223 Rem. I have the genesis9.angzva.com site. I would be willing to carve off a bit of that for reduced loads, or I could build another site under another domain and do this up. I'd just need some help populating it with data.

Link here for Seafire Blue Dot loads.

Range Report (sort of)

I had to quit. Winds were 12 MPH gusting to 23 MPH when I stopped. I'd already had the backer board for the targets get ripped off the stand.

What I can tell you is this:

With a 55 grain FMJ seated to 2.2", I did loads of 7, 12,13 and 14 grains of Bullseye, 5 rounds apiece.

7 grains (roughly 22 Magnum strength) I got more of a pattern than a group.

The wind was picking up and so rushed ahead. 12 gr (22 Hornet strength) gave me the best, but it had a flyer in it. 13 gr( 218 Bee) and 14 (221 Fireball) were not as good.

I couldn't set up the chronograph, because the wind would have carried it off.

The recoil was negligible. The report was pretty much what I'd expect, were I shooting the real thing.

I'll try this again when I don't have to fight the wind.

Thanks for the report.

I have a "spare" XR-100" in 223 that I should dedicate to a low recoil rifle instead of rebarreling it to a 221 FB, and as a bonus it will eject brass properly.

Hoping you will try more accurate bullets than the FMJ's. I think your efforts will be more useful and accuracy should be better than what I consider AR-Mini 14 Plinking bullets.

I did a reduced 223 load using the 40gr VMax over 9.0gr Unique for about 2700 fps from a 22" barrel.

I didn't try reducing much lower because the 9.0gr charge is about 57% case fill, so an accidental double-charge would overflow....a safety measure, sort of. I end up hand-measuring each charge anyways, just for safety. It's slow, but I don't shoot that many of them anyways.

Anyhoo, that load is super accurate in my Ruger American Predator, and has worked very well on prairie dogs out to 200 yards or so.

Played around with this a few different ways

A 22lr is probably ur answer. Buy a good rifle. Get good ammo. And kill stuff.

If the goal is a one gun quiver, I think the 6mm is easier to deal with then 224 diameter.

But it’s more expensive

But a 58gr vmax with about 14gr of blue dot out of a 243 is awesome. And it kills prairie dogs well, and holds accuracy long range.

A cheap and fun plinker is a Hammond game getter. Super fun way to get small game during big game hunts.

As for the original request for 223. use hornady 55gr sp bullets and blue dot. The sp bullets are borderline match grade but are usually found sub 10 cents. I think 8gr was a good place to be.

But doing quick math..

10 cent bullet, 7 cent primer, 5 cents powder plus time reloading to shoot glorified cci stinger is pretty backwards.

Yeah, the bullet is definitely a question mark. So is the rifle. My RAR Predator was giving me somewhat the same results early on when I was trying 55 grainers. It did much better with 63 grain bullets, and finally started to shine when I went to 75 grain. I have a Savage that does well with 55 grain. I will probably bring that out next and compare it to the RAR Predator. I have a slew of Hornady 55 grain FMJs. I'll try them too.

As to the overall sanity of downloading a 223 REM vs. just using a 22 LR, we can chalk it up to late winter boredom. I got ahead of myself in the reloading room and ran out of projects. This first trip down to the farm is one of the earliest times I've gone down after the winter hiatus, and within a month, I'll be down here worrying about turkey. The wind down here is fierce and a quiet bit of plinking with the wind blowing like it is turns into a struggle. I probably won't try this again until mid-spring, when I start getting quiet mornings.

The other thing is the way my range is set up. It's easy to pull off shots at 100 and 200 yards. If I turn the bench, 450 yards is easy. 50 yards is just not happening without some effort. I get out to 20 yards and the ground falls off. I don't know about y'all, but 22 LR at 100 yards is not what I call plinking. I've got the wind flags and all that, but some days it's just not worth all the hassle.

The math on the expense side is right, but there is a vast difference in effectiveness of a 55 gr bullet vs a rimfire weight bullet, assuming they arrive at the same speeds. The spitzer will retain speed, and thus energy, better, and will have started with more to begin with.

I use the blue dot loads on varmints out a bit past 150 yards and they are effective, while stingers really struggle past 100.

Powder and primer costs are fixed, especially if starting from ground zero and having to buy powder and primers specifically for this exercise. Bullets are the wild card. If one makes/casts his own bullets out of scrounged lead (yeah, it's still out there) then you're still in the camp of "ridiculously cheap" shooting. $6 for a box of 50 cartridges ain't hay by anybody's definition. Heck, even adding a dime per round for el-cheapo jacketed bullets as stated still only comes to $11 for a box of 50 centerfire rifle cartridges. And we're talking cartridges that are accurate, versatile, offer more energy than CCI Stingers (or the same, or less, depending on creativity with powder charges), but most importantly are just plain fun to shoot.

Time is the only mitigating factor, and if one approaches it purely from a cold analytical viewpoint rather than a fun hobby activity then perhaps one really is better off just buying a pack of Stingers and calling it a day.

For anyone interested in any data I've put on line on Blue Dot loads....

I have had that data on several computers that have had the hard drive crash...

Most of the time for my own use, I just search Seafire's Blue Dot Loads and list the caliber I'm wanting to reference.

If anyone asks me for some of that data, that is exactly how I locate it.

I know A lot of these parameters in my head from doing it for so long and so much.

The chronograph data I've posted, which has been in about any and all calibers I have tested it in, and the bullet weights I have used. I find those on line, on other sites.

All my work was posted on Accurate Reloading and on the campfire here.

Cast bullet manuals have a lot of other load data that is reference-able.