Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Officer Suicide.

Last night at Lorain Correctional Institution there was a female officer on perimeter patrol. During the night at some point she went silent. She stopped answering radio calls. A supervisor went onto their perimeter road to check on her. More than likely, he believed she had fallen asleep. She had committed suicide with her shotgun.

Correctional workers have a lot of mental stress that nobody but another officer can understand. Sad situation. She didn't want her family to be the ones that found her.

Hell of a thing.

Mental health is the real crisis.

Prayers for her soul.

Uncharacteristic for a female.




P

What a sad deal!

I can’t imagine doing that job under any circumstances. I couldn’t have a job that I knew every single day that I go to work I’m going to be dealing with the worst of the worst of “humanity”. The animals that populate our overcrowded prisons in a country that over incarcerates people at disproportionate numbers to the rest of the civilized world are not being rehabilitated, nor is it even punishment for many of them. The animal that gets sentenced to prison and goes away for virtually any length of time comes out of prison a far more dangerous animal than the one that was initially locked up. The criminal gets to network with other criminals and criminal organizations while they are locked up and they are able to really perfect their criminality to the point that they are experts. It wasn’t long ago that I read an article about drug use in maximum security prisons. The article said that most of the new inmates come in with substance abuse issues …. drugs or alcohol or both. Those who are sentenced to prison and don’t have any substance abuse issues upon arriving at prison a large percentage, iirc the article stated that roughly 70%, will be discharged with an addiction. That blows my mind…

A&F….I’m truly sorry for the loss of your coworker and I’m sorry for the pain she was dealing with. I wouldn’t be surprised that no matter what her main issues were, assuming that her main issues weren’t directly related to her work, the job itself weighed heavily on her sad decision. Thank God we have men and women who are willing to do that job and keep those scumbags out of society but I don’t know how you guys do it.

How old was your coworker? Was she married or did she have any children? The real victims are the loved ones left behind…left wondering what they could have done differently and blaming themselves for not recognizing the “warning signs”. Sad deal for everyone….

I don't have any details about her, I've never met her. Now, a real big issue was the amount of mandatory overtime worked. It's not something you know in advance so you prepare yourself for it. A supervisor will call sometime during your shift and tell you you're mandated. Often, it's within 10 minutes of the end of your shift. Some can expect that 3-4 times a week.

But I don't know that is a factor here.

Have a close friend who did that gig for 30 years. Drinks every day. Some of the stuff he's told me about, I would drink too.

That’s untenable for anyone in your line of work and it’s totally unreasonable to require that from people who are in such a high stress job. Working “just” 40 hours each week would be a hell of a mountain to face each week knowing what you have to go to every day but mandating that you have to stay and work a double or you’re mandated to come in on your days off is bullshit! I could see that on rare occasions or in emergency situations but not on a regular basis. That alone would preclude me from doing that crap. I know myself and after a few times of that bullshit I’d be telling them to GFT. My life is dedicated to my wife and family NOT to a government organization that can’t attract enough people to do the job and abuses the employees they already trapped. File an FMLA and take care of what’s important in life….

I don’t envy you and the position they’ve put you!

New people coming in now have to work until 65. Take it from me at 64 years old, that's too old. If I didn't work the post I'm in now I'd be out.

Sad deal.


If someone is that unhappy with their job- get a different job.

had a lot fof riends thatw ere NY guards. a coule worked doubles all summer long then toop paid time off from oct 1 through end of Feb. retired at 25 making over 100k on retirement

Working 2-3 mandated 16s a hitch does suck. Easier for some than others with home lives squared away.

Can’t say I’ve ever thought about eating a shotgun over it though.

This^^^^^^^

But some just love all the drama; my wife (a RN) has a friend that is also an RN who works at a medium security prison, does nothing but complain about every aspect of the job, but won't leave for love nor money & she's had all kinds of personal problems with a few inmate animals.

Just stupid to allow yourself to stay in that environment.

MM

LEO and FD suicides are way up in the last 10 years or so. There is a darkness in both jobs that almost can't always be described. You need a really good support system in place to do the job for 20-30 years. It seems to be a generational thing too. Not sure what's going on with that or how to fix it. It seems like the more effort that gets put into mental health for first responders, the worse it gets.

Sorry to hear. I lost two last year to the same thing. They were the last ones you would have ever thought would go down that road.

Very sad situation . No one knows the demons someone else is dealing with. Those facilities usually have a good HR department and counseling available but that doesn’t always help.

In 2002 a bank in my little hometown was shot up by a group of lowlife scum. Five people died in the holdup. A State Troopers had arrested the two leaders for a minor violation and subsequently found a handgun. The pistol had been stolen from a LGS but the SN had been incorrectly entered into the state’s computer system. The creeps were released and the gun was returned - it was used to kill at least two of the victims. The trooper somehow felt that he had a chance to prevent the massacre but blew it. He had a wife and several kids and lived on an acreage a couple miles from us. He killed himself on the same day as the funerals of several victims.

https://norfolkdailynews.com/news/r...5840a24-3dab-11ed-8867-674f8e258b0f.html

Working in a jail or prison would be awful. Hate them.

Armednfree: Sad deal that - my opinion, dealing with scum sucking slimeballs every day with no end and NO satisfaction from accomplishing anything, wears on humans.
I know.
My 1,100 man department had 11 men and 3 women commit suicide in the 29 years I worked there - and for much of that time (first 2/3's of my 29 years) extensive testing, background checks and mental evaluation was mandatory.
I advised ALL four of my VarmintChildren to seek employment careers outside law enforcement.
May she rest in peace.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

ArmednFree Bless you. Sorry to hear about it. In my 24 years working for Missouri I heard of several and one is too many. I retired five years ago and I'm still decompressing. Be Well Brothers, RZ.

So true! You know from experience how it can affect us. Oftentimes it doesn’t seem to be an issue until years down the road. I know that from my experience how I was able to deal with the disturbing calls but I also think that while we’re working, not just on shift but still working the job as employment, I didn’t have a lot of time to commiserate about last shift’s call because today was a new day and we were focused on the present.

I didn’t have much use for the psychological debriefings and shrinks “giving us permission to feel…” but I went (usually because it was mandatory 😁) anyway and with time and maturity I figured that even if I didn’t get anything out of it maybe one of my crew members did. I’ve always been able to “deal” with things because I did what most guys from our generation and before did, I buried it deep down inside and didn’t talk about it. That’s a good plan until it isn’t but we’re all different and we process things differently so there really isn’t a “right way” to deal with it. In the years since I’ll occasionally wake up in a cold sweat but I lean into my faith and WITHOUT FAIL the Lord will carry me through. It’s been awhile (several months) since I woke up in a panic but it’s almost always one of the children or youngsters we treated that is in my dream. Last week though we went to bed like normal and I was out when my head hit the pillow, I never really have trouble falling asleep and I NEVER remember my dreams, but that night just shortly after falling asleep I was in one of those weird nightmares. I was strapped to a gurney but there was slack in the belts and I wasn’t restrained. Three guys were wheeling me to the medic unit when I realized that they were not my crew mates, they began laughing maniacally and were about to push me over a cliff while I was strapped to the gurney. I yelled and grunted and sat straight up in bed….scaring the living hell out of my poor wife. I immediately told her that I’m fine and it was just another dream but I startled the poor girl to tears. She didn’t know what to do….she said that she had just finished her prayers and was deep in thought when I shot up with a grunt and holler…I felt terrible but she “understands”.

The benefits of that job far outweighed the after affects and I’d do it all over again in a heartbeat….. I loved the job and I loved the guys I worked with!

I don't think Corrections Officer would be near as bad as most think.
I know quite a few who do it, except for Blow Hards, most say it's not that bad.



It couldn't be as bad as I think it would be, I'd rather be test dummy for a discount
bungie jumping operation.

It's not bad for me now. No nearly as it once was. Maybe in some ways I'm just hardened to it. In my case now I am the most senior officer at my facility. That comes with perks. I work in visitation as the shake down officer. I deal with about 36 inmates on most days. That's 18 in the morning and 18 in the afternoon. I have been in the position that the young officers are in now. At that time for me there was little tolerance for any mental issue. In fact is they (supervisors) knew someone was having issues they would push their buttons on purpose. I always found that a really sick mentality and never did anything but support. Today we have some mental health support. But he fact that we are so shorthanded that people are working multiple double shifts seems to be somewhat discounted. The state won't fix it, because frankly the only way to fix it is to give more money. They did a little two years ago and that helped, but it wasn't far enough. In fact, the Biden economy ate that up. My thought is to pay us the same as a State Trooper with the same retirement system.

It's basically working in an insane asylum. Always some nutter screaming or smearing s hit on the wall.

No missing or suspect inmates, coworkers that might have helped her with deed? Or, is there a 100% certainty it was a suicide?

Like the Q thread, but real.

Does the corrections department have the same hiring requirements, education, and training requirements as the troopers? In Missouri, the Department of Corrections doesn't require even a high school diploma. The State Patrol requires a Bachelor's Degree.

Yep

Yeah...that's not the problem.

Armednfree: Get your time in and get out!
And til then protect yourself at all costs.
Best of luck to you.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

It does not.

No way could I spend a career in a jail. It always gave me the nervous creeps to be inside our jail when I would deliver a prisoner and have to be inside for 30 minutes with the doors locked behind me. If I were looking at a 20 or 30 year career and be financially unable to quit I might go the shotgun route myself. I can only imagine the angst felt by someone with personal and financial problems and a job as prison guard.

Who knows what combination of things will bring a person to such despair.

No judgement.

Just sad.

I like hiring corrections officers for the most part. They seem to be a bit more comfortable in their own skin and aren’t as quick to use a “tool” to solve everything. Makes sense since they don’t have all the toys on the inside.

Worst thing a baby cop can do is use a taser as a crutch. Time and place? Yes. But newbies try to use it every time....until they pop someone and nothing happens lol...then it's on with one hand to work with lol

100%

It sounds like we should just close them all down, and let them all go. Problem solved!

I do have a solution to reduce the prison population. Every death row inmate or lifer should be given a second chance. That second chance is out of a c130 or 17, attached to a static line parachute, with the planes located directly over N. Korea, China, Russia. Or the ocean.

If they live, they got it made!

Or unlimited fentanyl inside the prison. No narcan.

I don't think PA Corrections ever needed a degree, but it used to be the best way
to get the job. PSP did require a lot of hours, not sure how it correlated into a degree.


A friend's son had just finished the required education last year, was going through the process to get into the academy, and the governor lifted those requirements!
Actually removed education requirements for a lot of state jobs.

A good thing, if done for good reasons. But he is a Demonrat...


COs get the same retirement package as PSP.
20 years and out.

Prisons have become a huge employer her.
There are 4 Pa State facilities within 40 miles,
plus a Maryland state and a Federal pen in Cumberland.


I haven't heard that overtime is such a burden on our system.
They work a lot, but I haven't heard any complaints.
No idea how their system works, I know they do a lot of overtime, they also
seem to be off work a lot. Seems like a week off every couple weeks.

In my agency over my 34 years we had 3 Leo's from my agency who committed suicide. One was known domestic relate the other two the cause was not known. Our agency CID investigated but not a word was leaked out as to the Why. People knew what the cause was but to this day, years later. No cause was given. The rule is, If you say something about an issue, your done, out of a job. If you seek help outside the agency privately, and or medicated for that issue, your done. out of a job. If they drug test you and you do not disclose that your are medicated, your done. You have suffer in silence.

Your Agency has a lot of work to do to be better by the sound.

George

Pa's pay scale for CO's is a joke. they may have the same 20 and out (most state agencies here do) but their retirement and pay are nowhere near what PSP is. DOC starts at 42k annually PSP is 65,700 Annually. the degree requiremenst for entry level LE has always been stupid and rather pointless.

When you hurt enough you will do anything to stop the pain. You really don't want to off your self but the pain makes you have to. 40 milligrams of feel good every morning brightens my day. It's not all sunshine and rainbows but I don't have that pain anymore. It would surprise you if yall knew just how much a "Hey how you doing." Helps folks in trouble.

Yes and no. No agency will keep you on the job with a known mental health issue. Most, LE agencies have weaponized their staff. They look at you as potential problem under the right circumstances and write policies that support that stance. On a good day a Deputy/ Officer is a liability to them and they are always looking for a reason to fire you! On a bad day you do not stand a chance in keeping your job. Admitting you need a check up from neck up, is a game over scenario.

^^This^^ For a whole shift, a corrections officer is basically serving a sentence in prison just like the convicts. Only dif is the officer gets paroled at the end of the shift.

I doubt her job had very much to do with her suicide.

Agree with George. Don't know what agency blue is associated with, or what its culture might be, but they're setting themselves up for lawsuits. There are several legal protections LEOs have: union contracts, civil service, Americans with Disabilities Act. Agencies also have employee assistance plans, some specific to LE. Widespread ignorance about mental illness. Doesn't always mean "crazy" let alone dangerous. The "bible", the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, DSM V, of psychiatry has over 200 categories which many wouldn't recognize as mental illness. Legal protections aside, no decent, responsible, employer wants to lose a good employee. If the condition renders them unfit to work, they should have disability retirement.

I did the same with my 2. There are other jobs that don't require the mental abuse like government service.
kwg

Government service is a broad category. My brother had a very successful career as a homicide detective. I've known several others. Some private companies put their employees through hell. One ruined my daughter-in-law's health. Transportation and logistics professional.

Sad indeed, especially since the need for corrections officers steadily grows and the actual qualified psych folks diminishes, by the per capita numbers.

My agency now recruits about 50% of their LE academy slots from the corrections side of our house. We are a Sheriff's Office we both Corrections and LE. Without that recruiting base we would be crippled more then we are now.

Our county used to take their street deputies and investigators out of the jail. The problem was, it would be years before you got a shot at a patrol car or investigators desk. Most who wanted to go to the street went to other departments long before they got out of the jail.

kwg

You say things nearly verbatim to the things rattling around in my head. I don't have nightmares but on rare occasion I will see something that can make me snap but I get it under control pretty quick and it doesn't last. I have startled my wife a few times too. I hated the debriefs or peer counseling thing but also realized someone might benefit from me being their.
I had some really good co-workers that were great street psychologists and knew how to take care of each other. They all seemed to understand at the moment that we needed that bullshit session immediately after a bad call at 0330. My paramedic partner had 10 years on me and is a Vietnam combat vet. He made me into a real paramedic and was great at helping me without me even knowing I needed it. My two captains at station 29 kept reminding me that I didn't cause the problem that we were attending to, that some people including kids, just aren't going to make it. They reassured me and the crew that we did our best and did our jobs as well as could be expected.
I think there are a couple problems, at least for the fire service, The major one being the unisex fire stations. With cubicle type dorms people find ways to hide. I don't think it's healthy. Like I said, that 0330 bullshit session. Sometimes in the old barracks style dorm for 10 minutes before we go back to sleep. We were closer, more like family. I had to share a room with 2 brothers. All the snoring, farting, sleep talking etc. for better or worse creates a bond.
The other is the wokeness that is killing this country. Maybe someone snaps and lets something fly that gets your attention. They get it out of their system and then we all moved on. Now, someone gets offended if someone snaps, reports it up the chain of command and it can't be ignored or taken for what it really was, just a vent. Now this guy is under investigation and nobody is looking at the cause to offer some help. So people tend to bury stuff and we see the current result.
I got to where I could leave it all at work at the end of my shift. I had enough to do when I was off duty so I didn't have to wallow in the past. I went to work many days looking forward to my next day or days off. This attitude actually made me really enjoy my work.

I worked forensic psychology for about 4 years. One year we lost 3 staff members. One to an OD on pain meds after being injured by a patient and 2 to suicide. I realized the job was bringing me down too so I quit and went to MBA school.

After graduating my best job offers were in psychiatric health care management but I turned them all down despite starting offers at $180,000 a year. That was decent monet for a single guy in 2005 but I turned it down. It's tough being around the criminal mindset too much. It made me cynical so I'm glad I quit.

Bb