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Campfire Outfitter
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Joined: Dec 2013
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Would it be accurate to say secession was about slavery( in some states), the war was about the federal govt imposing its will on the states? That secession was about slavery would be correct. The second part is kind of true, but in a hypocritical way of the part of the South. They South was perfectly fine with the Federal Government imposing its will on states when the South saw it to their benefit. They pushed through and supported the Fugitive Slave Act, a Federal law that required states where slavery was illegal to actively participate in the capture and return of fugitive slaves to their masters. The Southern states openly supported the Dred Scott case, that ruled that a Slave owner could take his slaves into a Free State and that Free State had to legally recognize the masters right to his slaves even thought slavery was supposed to be illegal in that state. Fugitive Slave Act? You mean Article 4, Section 2, Clause 3 of the US Constitution wasn’t enough for northern states? No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due. Article 4, Section 2, Clause 3 of the US Constitution wasn't enough for Southern Sates. The Fugitive Slave Act of 1850 pushed it further. But you are right, the Sothern's States as far back as the Constitution loved Federal Power when it was used in protecting their right to own Slaves. Well, why wasn’t it enough? Are you saying that Northern States were not following the US Constitution simply because they didn’t like what it said and southern states were wrong for insisting that they follow the Constitution? Is that what you’re saying? I'm saying the "Lost Cause" myth that the Civil War was about some concept of States Rights and a Federal Government that was too strong is revisionist history nonsense written after the war. At the time the events where unfolding that lead to the war it was almost all about the future of slavery in this country. The South was fine with federal power that was pro-slavery and against federal power that was anti-slavery. So were the northern states following the Constitution or not? Simple question.
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Joined: Nov 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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This looks interesting. John Wilkes BoothNot a fan of Lincoln. I hold him highly responsible for the Civil War, which I believe could have been avoided with a more even handed approach to the problem of succession. Instead of attempting a peaceful solution, Lincoln called out 75000 militia to put down an armed rebellion. He skillfully painted the South into a corner, forcing them to fire the first shots and appear in the north and abroad as the aggressors. With that said, I still think that Booths shot in Fords Theater, was the single most destructive shot fired against the Confederacy in the war. With Lincoln gone, the last moderating influence to the black republicans was removed as well. With the vindictive feeling of the northern population, and with a weak executive like Andrew Johnson in the White House, they enforced a strict and damaging policy of reconstruction on the South. It caused years of depression and even longer feelings of hatred in the southern states. I think the whole damn thing could have been avoided… Reon And the North, as a punitive measure and by the stroke of a pen made US Citizens of the thousands of contraband that should have been dealt with differently. Would have been much better for both races to have relocated freed slaves to their native land. As an invasive species and with the differences of values, intelligence, ambition, etc. between races, the USofA has been on a steady decline and will continue until the level of the negro is achieved. Will surprisingly look like Sub-Saharan Africa.
"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
Thomas Jefferson
GeoW, The "Unwoke" ...Let's go Brandon!
"A Well Regulated Militia" Life Member
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Joined: Nov 2015
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Campfire Ranger
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Would it be accurate to say secession was about slavery( in some states), the war was about the federal govt imposing its will on the states? That secession was about slavery would be correct. The second part is kind of true, but in a hypocritical way of the part of the South. They South was perfectly fine with the Federal Government imposing its will on states when the South saw it to their benefit. They pushed through and supported the Fugitive Slave Act, a Federal law that required states where slavery was illegal to actively participate in the capture and return of fugitive slaves to their masters. The Southern states openly supported the Dred Scott case, that ruled that a Slave owner could take his slaves into a Free State and that Free State had to legally recognize the masters right to his slaves even thought slavery was supposed to be illegal in that state. Fugitive Slave Act? You mean Article 4, Section 2, Clause 3 of the US Constitution wasn’t enough for northern states? No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due. Article 4, Section 2, Clause 3 of the US Constitution wasn't enough for Southern Sates. The Fugitive Slave Act of 1850 pushed it further. But you are right, the Sothern's States as far back as the Constitution loved Federal Power when it was used in protecting their right to own Slaves. Well, why wasn’t it enough? Are you saying that Northern States were not following the US Constitution simply because they didn’t like what it said and southern states were wrong for insisting that they follow the Constitution? Is that what you’re saying? I'm saying the "Lost Cause" myth that the Civil War was about some concept of States Rights and a Federal Government that was too strong is revisionist history nonsense written after the war. At the time the events where unfolding that lead to the war it was almost all about the future of slavery in this country. The South was fine with federal power that was pro-slavery and against federal power that was anti-slavery. Bullschit
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Joined: Dec 2013
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,828 Likes: 7 |
I really think that according the logic of Rhod some states are missing a golden opportunity to get rich. All we have to do is pass a law that all personal property that makes it to the state from an owner who lives in another state, no longer belongs to said owner. We confiscate it, or as I prefer to say, “set it free”. We then sell it and split the proceeds. It’s full proof since it would be a great injustice to expect a state to honor the property rights of persons in another state.
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People are not "Property". Slaves were forbidden to be educated. Some were taught only a single job like blacksmithing or cooking and cleaning. They were forbidden to own any property. They were chattel and only that. They were fed with food they largely grew and clothed as the owner saw fit. housed as well. They were forbidden to marry. As property their women could be taken at the owners discretion and bred. Reconstruction was a nightmare for the South thanks to Booth's success. It took many years to overcome the hatred, animosity and superstitions some of which exist today. The democrat party today is just as viral as it was in the "solid south". Instead of murdering blacks and denying them any rights they imprison them in other ways. They have managed to keep many blacks on the plantation by convincing them that democrats alone are their salvation. That's changing largely because of Trump.
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Joined: Apr 2006
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2006
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I really think that according the logic of Rhod some states are missing a golden opportunity to get rich. All we have to do is pass a law that all personal property that makes it to the state from an owner who lives in another state, no longer belongs to said owner. We confiscate it, or as I prefer to say, “set it free”. We then sell it and split the proceeds. It’s full proof since it would be a great injustice to expect a state to honor the property rights of persons in another state. Your message is half-gibberish, but perhaps you fail to grasp the part of the issue where the "property" referenced were human beings rather than escaped livestock or purloined equipment? Since it involved human beings, a large portion of country stood opposed to slavery, didn't want to go along with it, and were happy to see it fail. Perhaps we could draw an analogy with abortion in our own time? And no, northerners weren't selling slaves and "splitting the proceeds" with anyone. Also, northerners who failed to go along with slavery program in their own states nullified those laws by not following them, to the point of in some cases arresting federal marshals who attempted to enforce the law. Again, perhaps we could draw an example from our own time of a state standing in opposition to the federal government in regards to illegal aliens....Texas perhaps? Someone else brought up the perceived fact that not all confederates were fighting for slavery. A statement following the same logic would be to say that some members of the Wehrmacht were only fighting for lebensraum rather than the final solution. The plain truth is if you're fighting for a cause you don't get to pick and choose aspects of that cause you do and do not support. You're all in or you're not in at all. By emotionally following "lost cause" theology and ignoring historical evidence such as the rebellious states' declarations of secession or the letters exchanged between Generals Hood and Sherman, people allow themselves the false comfort of not having to confront issues honestly when what they should do is accept our ancestors for who and what they were: people who made decisions and took actions based on the time and place where they lived and according to their lives, beliefs, cultures, and practices.
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Campfire Tracker
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Joined: Oct 2007
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I find it interesting that:
It was moral and right to declare war on every Indian Nation North of the Rio Grande so that we might include those territories into the Union.
It was moral and right to go to war with Mexico so that we could claim California, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado.
It was moral and right to go to war with Spain and take possession of the Philippines, Guam, and Puerto Rico.
But it was immoral to go to war and reclaim those states which had seceded?
Did I get that straight? As straight as it can be given the politics
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Lincoln was up to the time the greatest traitor to the constitution and the nation. He had to die for his crimes against the south and even the north. People talk of how the south would have avoided reconstruction and returned to normal had he lived that’s simply not true, normal was gone. Booth was a patriot in my opinion, of course I’m jaded as I have ancestors that fought and died in every theater of the war.
Sic Semper Tyrannis! Completely and utterly false. Lincoln was the one person who acted in accord with the Constitution and the intent of the Founders. Just because you keep saying that bullschit like a broken record doesn’t make it so. +1 that’s gotta be the stupidest Sheit Queefqueen has ever posted! Lincoln respected the constitution, nobody is that fugking stupid!!!
Will Munny: It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. Take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have.
The Schofield Kid: Yeah, well, I guess they had it coming.
Will Munny: We all got it coming, kid.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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It's amazing reading some of these posts and seeing how brainwashed today's American citizens are when it comes to the events that led up the War of Northern Aggression.
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Joined: Feb 2018
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Joined: Feb 2018
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I think at that time, everybody on both sides knew killing Abe was a bad idea. If it had happened earlier in the war, who knows, but in that atmosphere, it was just dumb.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 38,925 Likes: 11 |
It's amazing reading some of these posts and seeing how brainwashed today's American citizens are when it comes to the events that led up the War of Northern Aggression. Awfully hard to argue with that.
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
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Campfire Ranger
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 15,155 Likes: 18 |
Mary Todd’s family had how many slaves?
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Joined: Nov 2015
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 15,155 Likes: 18 |
Ever watch the movie Shenandoah with Jimmy Stewart?
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Campfire Outfitter
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This looks interesting. John Wilkes BoothNot a fan of Lincoln. I hold him highly responsible for the Civil War, which I believe could have been avoided with a more even handed approach to the problem of succession. Instead of attempting a peaceful solution, Lincoln called out 75000 militia to put down an armed rebellion. He skillfully painted the South into a corner, forcing them to fire the first shots and appear in the north and abroad as the aggressors. With that said, I still think that Booths shot in Fords Theater, was the single most destructive shot fired against the Confederacy in the war. With Lincoln gone, the last moderating influence to the black republicans was removed as well. With the vindictive feeling of the northern population, and with a weak executive like Andrew Johnson in the White House, they enforced a strict and damaging policy of reconstruction on the South. It caused years of depression and even longer feelings of hatred in the southern states. I think the whole damn thing could have been avoided… Reon And the North, as a punitive measure and by the stroke of a pen made US Citizens of the thousands of contraband that should have been dealt with differently. Would have been much better for both races to have relocated freed slaves to their native land. As an invasive species and with the differences of values, intelligence, ambition, etc. between races, the USofA has been on a steady decline and will continue until the level of the negro is achieved. Will surprisingly look like Sub-Saharan Africa. Exactly! The Union won and we all get to enjoy the results.
Will Munny: It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. Take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have.
The Schofield Kid: Yeah, well, I guess they had it coming.
Will Munny: We all got it coming, kid.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 61,164 Likes: 24 |
I head the Washington policeman that was Soppiest be guarding Lincoln was at a bar.
These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o
"May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 8,848 Likes: 22 |
When I was in the Army, I had a very good friend whose name was Mudd! Jeff Mudd was from Marlboro MD. He was, IIRC, Doc Sam Mudd’s great grand nephew.he had a twin brother named Joe in a different unit on Ft Lewis. (It was Jeff and Joe that me and Gary and Griz went to SeaTac for the night that Gary and I got kicked outta the airport lounge for singing My Dingaling)😀 Jeff always maintained that Doc Sam knew nothing of the conspiracy Dr Mudd merely set the broken leg of a person who was in an accident that night. Found out later on it was Booth! And he had shot Lincoln! Doc Mudd was convicted of being part, and sentenced to life imprisonment at Dry Tortugas. In 1867 there was an outbreak of Yellow Fever, in which Dr Mudd was instrumental in containing. In 1869 he was pardoned Reon
"Preserving the Constitution, fighting off the nibblers and chippers, even nibblers and chippers with good intentions, was once regarded by conservatives as the first duty of the citizen. It still is." � Wesley Pruden
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 61,164 Likes: 24 |
Lincoln was just one to be killed?
These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o
"May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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Joined: Feb 2001
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 8,848 Likes: 22 |
I think Doc Mudd knew more than Jeff admitted to. Doctor Samuel MuddReon
"Preserving the Constitution, fighting off the nibblers and chippers, even nibblers and chippers with good intentions, was once regarded by conservatives as the first duty of the citizen. It still is." � Wesley Pruden
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 8,848 Likes: 22
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2001
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Grant was supposed to be with Lincoln that evening at Fords Theater, but he was sick. Major Henry Rathbone and his date escorted the President and First Lady.
The Major was stabbed and sliced by Booth as he made his way through the President’s box and leaped to the stage.
Reon
"Preserving the Constitution, fighting off the nibblers and chippers, even nibblers and chippers with good intentions, was once regarded by conservatives as the first duty of the citizen. It still is." � Wesley Pruden
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 61,164 Likes: 24
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 61,164 Likes: 24 |
Anyone been to Fords's theater?
These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o
"May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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