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Yeah, I’m done with your retardation tonight.

How a Libertarian Should View the Civil War----excellent article by a well-credentialed Libertarian scholar.

https://reasonpapers.com/pdf/28/rp_28_6.pdf

Below is an excerpt near the end of the article:

Contrary, then, to the oft-repeated claim that the Civil War was not
about slavery, the question of slavery answers the essential question which
determines whether secession in 1861 was an act of revolution, on the one
hand, or a criminal conspiracy, on the other hand. The secession of 1861 was
not a legitimate revolution, because its “cornerstone” rested on “the great truth
that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery—subordination to
the superior race—is his natural and normal condition.”58 As Lincoln had said
before the war,

"[w]e all declare for liberty; but in using the same word we do not all
mean the same thing. With some the word liberty may mean for each
man to do as he pleases with himself, and the product of his labor;
while with others the same word may mean for some men to do as
they please with other men, and the product of other men’s labor.
Here are two, not only different, but incompatible things, called by
the same name—liberty. And it follows that each of the things is, by
the respective parties, called by two different and incompatible
names—liberty and tyranny. The shepherd drives the wolf from the
sheep’s throat, for which the sheep thanks the shepherd as a liberator,
while the wolf denounces him for the same act as the destroyer of
liberty, especially as the sheep was a black one. Plainly the sheep
and the wolf are not agreed upon a definition of the word liberty."59


The Confederacy, built upon the wolf’s definition of liberty, was an
illegitimate government by the libertarian standards of the Declaration of
Independence. When the Confederacy initiated force by firing on Fort
Sumter, therefore, it became the responsibility of the President to “take Care
that the Laws [including the supreme law of the land] be faithfully
executed,”60 by putting down the rebellion by force if necessary.

K

Don’t forget James Watt, he perfected the steam engine which then enabled steam-driven looms. Turns out long-staple cotton fiber worked really well in those looms.

Before that, even your socks were expensive, you had to pay all that labor which went into making them. Cheap machine-made cotton cloth, a clothing miracle, and England had an empire to sell it to the world.

They bought all their raw cotton fiber from the American South. Suddenly the fastest way to a million dollars was your own cotton plantation. Slave-grown cotton. 80% of the Southern economy.The South got stuck in a time warp that would ultimately destroy it.

He makes perfect sense, if you understand his analogy.

John Brown was an interesting man. Traveled to Kansas to take part in the mini civil war they were having there, which was as everybody knows was a fight over tariffs. Then showed up latter at Harpers Ferry trying to start a revolt in favor of tariffs.

Haven't read everything, probably got stoopid for one reason or another.

Say what you want about Lincoln. If not for his foresight there would be no "United States" as we know it today.

His goal with the civil war was to preserve the union. And the rebels struck the first blow.

He also knew he had to unite the country east to west, he pushed hard for the transcontinental railroad and made that happen.

If it wasn't for him it would be divided, just like Europe.

Image a country from sea to sea, now we just need to take over Canada, expect Quebec. They can keep that.

Are you speaking about the complete or nearly complete loss of "States Rights"? miles

Y'all are ignoring that Slavery was Legal at the time. miles

I don’t

That is the one thing that is totally forgotten by those who love and defend Lincoln. Moral implications aside, it was a legal institution. If a president today were to declare gun ownership as illegal, demand that they all be turned in, and go to war with the citizens that refused to comply with his demands and instead set up their own government..............the same people who defend Lincoln for what he did, would be ready to do to that president what Wilkes did to Lincoln.

So I’m to understand that by calling me names like white supremacist, you’re actually bating the “my ancestors fought for the South” crowd?
That seems pretty freaking complicated!
If you read my participation in most of these Civil War threads, I have often commented on how I think it wrong to identify with a part instead of the whole. I have stated different times that as proud as I am of my Pennsylvania heritage, I’m even more proud of my American heritage!
So you’re bating me into an argument I can’t win just to make a point.
Take them crayons and stuff them where the sun won’t find them. We’re on the same side, but I am not amused.🤬
Reon

It might have been better for the whole world had the United States broken up into 4 or 5 different countries instead of how it turned out. Maybe we wouldn't have taken over policing the world and rescuing the British and the French and Eastern Europe and China which with hindsight we can see didn't work out so well for them and completely has broken the USA.

Oh well, as my brother always says "that ship has sailed".

Sir, I am not baiting you with an argument you can’t win, I am merely telling you how you will be judged by the likes of RHOD and Tarquin in the future.

True

The most disastrous event in the last 125 years was the defeat of Germany in WW I. That destroyed Western Civilization, led directly to Hitler and the Bolsheviks in Russia. And that was caused solely because of American intervention.

So, yeah if things had turned out differently in the Civil War there likely would have been no American intervention in WW I. So no German defeat, no communist in Russia, and no Hitler. Without those events, probably no Chinese communists either. It’s difficult to see how the world might have turned out, but very difficult to see how things could be worse than they are.

“Reon is from Pennsylvania and he’s a friend of mine”
Early bird
Thanks. I can understand his point about “my ancestors did this” crowd, but I cannot fathom the logic of baiting me into a confrontation!
Mike, as usual you’re looking at a much bigger picture than most of us do.
I have commented several times about the cotton gin saving African slavery from being strangled by the weight of itself. But I never considered how steam powered looms in England and France had increased the worth of those same slaves!
That said the embargo of cotton in 1961, was pizz poor timing because of the existing glut of cotton. Also the fire eaters never considered that India was already producing cotton as well.
Actually the feudal system used there was almost as brutal as the worst slave plantations. Like I said, as property, slaves were actually better off than supposedly free workers in other parts of the world and the US!
This opens up another intrinsic point that is often overlooked. Western European countries like England, France, and Germany have a history of considering themselves “better” than the Pollocks, Hunkies, Dagos and Micks! There were usually British and German formens enforcing the control of the miners and factory workers!
For the most part, other than the treatment of freed blacks, we Americans avoided discrimination against other ethnic groups due to where they’re from.
Maybe that’s just me talking though. I have experienced several instances where I’m judged of something purely because of the fact I’m from Pennsylvania.
Fetterman, trade unions and other things are thrown in my face, only because I live in Pennsylvania!
You know what? Never mind! Discrimination is part of every day life, even here on the ‘Campfire!🤬
Reon

Those guys didn’t say boo to me that I’m aware of. A few comments about “another Civil War thread” don’t bother me. I saw an interesting article about JW Booth, passed it on to other interested people, and as often happens it takes on a life of its own!😀 That’s just the ‘campfire being the ‘Campfire!
Political threads have no end, but god forbid someone starts a discussion about John Wayne or the war of southern stupidity!😀
Some guys find it impossible to ignore threads that don’t interest them. I guess they figure a high post count makes them more intelligent or something!😀
Reon

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