Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Anyone know if Bob Hagel got 3300?

Way back in the early 80's, Bob Hagels book really influenced me. I was able to shoot his recipe for the 7mm Rem Mag that listed 3100fps for the 160 NP. It shot very well. One day, I talked a nervous guy into shooting one of my rounds across his chronograph. ( I was way too poor to own one!) it went "exactly" 2950! A very good speed for a 24" barrel and IMR 4350! However, it "ruined me"! I was so disappointed! I really wanted a Mashburn SuperMag so I could get "Bob's" 3300 fps! years later, I tried bigger 7mms, close as I got was about 3150/160! Anyone ever get this speed at sane pressure?

Correction: Bob's book spoke of using the Mashburn 160 for 3300fps, but listed some loads for powders I did not have in 1980 for the 7mm Rem Mag going 3100 or so. I had IMR 4350 and in the Nosler Load Data showed 60 some-odd grains for 3100, "that" was the load I had checked at 2950.

Nope, my Rem 7 mag runs 3100 with a 160 ab and h1000. 26" barrel.

Regards,
Manny

I get 3200-3250 from my 24" 7 Mashburn Super with 160's. Mostly using 175/180's these days at 3050-3100. H1000 with 160 Noslers was Bob's favorite load and I believe that chrono'ed around 3200 from his old Simillion 7 Mashburn Super.

I read where there was two Mashburns, one like the 7 RM and one like the 7 STW? Which one is the Super and to what do you compare it too? Just curious is all, both make up into heavier rifles than I want to pack around anymore! Plus, I didn't think H1000 was around in the early 80's?

I thought Mr. Hagel was known for higher than “standard” pressure loads. I read his articles though.

There were three Jim. One was basically like a 7 Rem Mag, the other was based off the full length 300 H&H blown out which was basically a 7 STW and then there was the Super which was actually in between. The Super was formed from 300 H&H brass and shortened to 2.6" and fireformed. Today I use 300 Win Mag and fireform. It was said it was called the Super cause back when they were created there wasn't enough speed advantage to the bigger case to show much advantage unless you used a longer barrel and then only with heavier bullets.

So the Super was a solid mix between the smaller Rem Mag and larger Wby sized case. I have had a couple Super's and like what it does. Today, with longer actions available and slower powders you can make stuff like the STW really scream if you wanted though.

I don;t think I ever read of him getting 3300 with a 160, but he did get that with 140s.

I had written a letter to Mr Hagel, back then, asking him if he felt I would benefit by reaming my 7mm RM out to the 7mm/300 Wby and he said no, too Overbore then. 20yrs later I'm going through the bigger cased 7mms. I only hunted one time with that 7mm RUM. The elk were lying down right on the property line at 600! Had to pass, and I was glad, too far for my part. But I shot a wad out in the desert and Lord, what a money Pit! Between being fickle and trying different loads, I went through some components. I sold it and never looked back.

I tried some of Hagel’s loads and never was able to get anywhere near his top loads in my rifles.
My current 7mm Mashburn Super weighs 7 pounds ready to hunt. It does have a muzzle brake and that makes it feel like shooting a mild 270. Love the rig immensely.

I sent you an email Jim. Let me know if it came through. Hagel's 3300 came from a 28" Single Shot which seems entirely possible.

Yes sir, I got it! "I was there" *back in '86", ha. At that time, I was super busy getting my affairs in order to go to Bible college, up in Tulsa (Broken Arrow). I somehow missed this publication as I would always check out the magazine racks of convenient stores, I was still driving a truck then. It was tough to get information back then, ha. I believe Bob substituted his 3300 fps/160 in his book for his 3300/140, or the Editor did. Anyhow, I sure enjoyed the article and learned many things! Super, dooper, hot dog, exciting to me and cleared up so much! Thank you Marine! This "almost" makes me want to have my new Shilen 7x57 reamed out to the 280 Ackley or 7x57 Ackley, lol. Just kidding, it looks like I will be able to get that 3300 with the Barnes 120 TTSX (or Hammer) from its 25" barrel with R17. That's plenty flat for what I want this rifle to do. But that 28 Nosler?????......:)

That 28 Nosler is a horse for sure. A fast one..

I have 2 Mashburns with 24" barrels. I have loaded 1 with 162 gr Hornady Interlocks, 26 gr RL-25 and it chronod at 3275. Accuracy is about .6". That load was a little hot so I backed down to 24 gr and 3200+/-.
The other is a dedicated 175 gr shooter with 72 gr H1000 at 3060.
I like them both a lot.

I briefly had a 26" barreled 7mm RM (before Obammacare raped me and I had a huge Premium right before Medicare age!) I worked up loads ( and chronographed) with the 160/R26 for 3100 and change and used R33/175 for a smooth 3000fps. Both with terrific accuracy. Then "boom", had to sell. But it served to prove ro me that a 26" barrel 7 RM was far more capable than someone of my skill set could take advantage of. If I didn't already have comparable rounds (the 338/06 AI/175 Hammer and 300WSM/153 HHT) for my 400yd self imposed Limit, I would get another 7 RM. I say that because I had a 22" .280 Mountain Rifle reamed to the Ackley and I only gained 50fps from it using the 150 NBT. (final 2950) That rifle was a killer, but fickle, only it and the Speer 160HC/2800 would shoot well. And, more importantly, "I wanted more", lol.

I loved that rifle for hunting around here and down in Texas. However, in '94 I got to hunt antelope for first time near Laramie. That wonderful light rifle and me got blown around by the prairie wind something awful! I missed 5 bucks (out around 300+) that morning! That wind was blowing me, and when it wasn't, it was blowing out where the bucks were! I realized that heavier rifle would be the best option. For me, I seem to much better with a heavy-Sporter. I used big varmint rigs (6mm Remington) on prairie dogs, but overall, I like a Sporter weight better. Now, at 71, shucks, I love my Lightweights (but not too light). I just hunt different now, and still have a ball!

You are right Mr WCH! I still had a ton of fun "trying" to get that 3300/160, ha. Right before I left Texas for Tulsa, I had access to a farm and straight road for rifle range. I measured it out to 600yds, I shot my 7mm Rem Mag and the 160/2950 loa and the 150/almost 3200 load there, and my 1917 Enfield sporter 30-06 with both the 150 and 200 Sierras. I'm not a "dialer" but I had them both set at +3" @ 100. I even had a thick steel pendulum (8" square) hanging on chains painted white. Boy, did I enjoy myself. The way I worked, I couldn't get out there very much.

I could easily subtend my scope reticles out to 500. I shot from the sit mostly. I sure enjoyed that time and place! Oh yeah, I was over 3ft low at 600 with my 7 Mag set that way. "Occasionally" I hit the gong. Too far, too rich, too much sugar for a dime for me:, ha So out to 500 I can do it, but its like doing mechanic work and Math to me though, "yes i can do it" but I don't enjoy it! I feel "cheated" somehow with running shots too. You work you plan, agonize over tiny groups then they take off and its 'do or go home for Tag Soup", may as well have a shotgun/buckshot. No, I enjoy the surgical approach, then I want to dig around in the wound cavity, ha.

Well, I have another [b]Retraction and Apology[/b] for everyone. Tonight I dug out my old beat up book of Bob Hagel's " Game Loads and Practical Ballistics" and got a surprise. I was wrong! On page 140 is a picture of his Record Book Caribou, his Mashburn Super mag and the load he used, a Nosler 160 PT going 3240fps! I could have sworn it was 3300. I guess I must have read it somewhere when playing with either the 7mm STW or that 7mm RUM. Who knows? Either way, whether 3300 or 3240, that's flat shooting! For a "point and shoot/hold on hair" kind of hunter like me, using a 300yd zero and I used the slicker 160 NAB, I would be good to 500yds! And, as long as I'm dreaming, there is "no wind"! ha That would be on a broadside elk. Now, I would use the Partition or the 160 TTSX for elk where I hunt and how I hunt. I would probably drop my zero down to +2 @ 100 also.

I just wanted to get that straight. I have enjoyed everyone's input on their Big 7's, very informative. And no, until I get that cow elk hunt booked for next year, I am not buying a 28 Nosler! lol

One thing I remember about memory is I don't remember if my memory is as good as memory serves...

You know Jim, I think I have that book somewhere, now I have to go dig it up.

Anytime folks talk about the 7 Mashburn, I think of Bob in NH (I think that was his handle). Wonderful guy for sure!

Same here AK, probably part of the reason I’ve stuck with the Mashburn over a 7 Rem or 28 Nosler. I know the cartridge well enough now and it’s easy to me.

I still remember calling Bob after my first 7 Mashburn kill and remember jaw jacking a bit. Always a great guy to BS with.

I remember Brother Bob too...seemed like a great guy.

Bob in NH was probably the heaviest influencer on 24hr for making me bite the bullet (so to speak) and have my one and only custom built rifle ever done in 7 mashburn! The rest of the 7mm Mashburn campfire rifle owners were influencers as well! You guys did me right though, I really like it and enjoy my Kevin Weaver built model 70 classic (donor was 7stw).

Just the other day commented to another fire member how I missed Bob’s posts… and he said “I do too”.

He got me pretty good as well Ozarks.. My first was a rechambered 70 and the next was a full on Weaver build as well.

Put me on that list too! It’s been an interesting and fun cartridge to shoot and hunt with.

I never messed with the Mashburn wildcats. I did though buy a Ruger #1 in 7mm STW when it became available.

It does 3200 fps mv with the 160 Sierra spbt, or the Hornady 162 btsp over H1000.

In the two 7mm STWs I tried, neither one was consistent with the 160, but I was able to dial the 140s right in, at blistering speed too! I would have loved it if the 160s got 3200! In that 7mm RUM I just went straight to the same Barnes 140. Had a family emergency sold it.

Bob had a real passion for the round, no doubt. He was also deep into Mashburn minutiae, and undoubtedly he influenced a lot of guys on the campfire. The person who got Bob going on the Mashburn was Mark Dobrenski (aka Dober to many here). Mark had a friendship going back decades with Hagel, and had even spent time with him at his home. Mark has been using the Mashburn going back to the 1980’s, and gave Bob his reamer for Bob’s first build, as well as brass and dies.

Dober doesn’t post here anymore for a lot of reasons, but as his friend I thought I’d give a bit more of the backstory of how the Mashburn became a “thing” on the Campfire.

He is definitely the man behind the curtains in regards to the Mashburn. Great fella though, has been way above kind to myself and my brother.

Good morning Scotty. Yes, Dober is a good and generous man. I always got a kick out of his devotion to the 7 Mashburn - it really is a lot of work these days given the availability of the 7 PRC. Aside from his correspondence and friendship with Hagel, I believe his primary reason for going the Mashburn route was he wanted to push 160's (and heavier) at 3,000 fps or more while "breathing easy." Something the 7mm RM just doesn't do. I'd have to ask him to refresh my memory, but I think Mark's burned out at least three Mashburn barrels. That's a LOT of shooting, and Mark's a fine rifleman. I've shot Marks 7, but I just don't like that kind of recoil, and certainly don't shoot enough anymore to stay proficient with that level of recoil. But I get the Big 7's, and with a short barrel and can they look even better to me. But anymore, a 308 or 270 is my "big gun."

Bob got me going on the Mashburn back in 2015, have had 4 of them since the start. First 2 had way too much throat length and just didn’t perform as expected. Last 2 were done with my own reamer and are excellent. IMO the7 PRC won’t match the MSM for speed as it’s mostly a Rem mag in a different case. The only commercial 7 that can equal it and then run past it is the 28 Nosler.

Now see John- there you guys go with that 28 Nosler business again, you're killing me! Nah, just teasing. While they do intrigue me, I just don't shoot out in the desert like I used too, and certainly have no where to hunt that I would take a 28, or benefit from one. Pure nostalgia for me, especially about the Mashburn. I "would" like to have to money back that I spent on all the 7 Mags I've had/shot/components, dies, etc. But I would also like to have all the money I spent on Heathen Living "B.C." (Before Christ-in my Life, lol) When you are just "glad to be here, walking around, enjoying Life....that's "Priceless", ha.

It was pretty contagious honestly. Bob got me on the Mashburn probably around 2014. I'd have to look at my pictures, but I think that was about right. I rechambered my old M70 XTR 7 Rem with another fella's reamer for a 100 bucks. It was like putting a new barrel on that rifle. I FF'ed a bunch of cases and loaded Bob's load of 75.5 of H1000 with 160 Accubonds. I was right at the 3200 mark and took an elk with it that fall. The same gun would do 3050-3100 with 175's pretty easily with H1000 and Retumbo as well. I passed that rifle to my old buddy, who as of last week is still loading and shooting the original 50 Hornady cases I FF'ed years ago.

I had Kevin Weaver make me up my current gun on a P64 magnum action with a 1-8 Bart turned to Krieger #2 contour in a Legend. I liked the rifle but with a Leupold 6x36 I was up against my weight limit and I didn't like the long throat he used. So, I sent it back, had the shank turned down to a Fwt like shank, and a bit more steel turned off. Swapped the Blackburn BM for P64 Featherweight metal and swapped the stock for a McM Hunters EDGE. Sits a bit over 8lbs ready to rip with a heavy Trijicon on top, but man, it shoots. I don't find the McM Hunter as bad as some, but doing it today, I'd do the Bansner Miller Classic, might still do that, who knows, the day is still young.

It has turned into my new elk rifle. Once you have the dies and stuff it really isn't much of a big deal to make cases up and like I have told a few folks, I bought a 100 RWS cases back in 17 when I had the new gun made up and still have 40 new cases still in the boxes (probably 50-55 remaining of the original FF'ed, lost a couple hear and there), have lost two to a split neck, but the rest are still humming along after what I'd conservatively guess as 15X loads through them. I do anneal, but man those were a good investment. I don't shoot it a ton since I have a great load that works for me, but it is always ready. Not sure I have even taken the tape off the barrel from this past fall yet.

I'd have to ask Dober, but I thought he was along the lines of 5-7 barrels on his, but I could be remembering wrong, but either way, that's a pile of shooting!

I would never try to talk a new person or a person who merely replaces powder and seats a bullet on a Mashburn, that's where the Rem Mag and PRC shine, but if a fella just wants a little extra and easy to source cases, the Mashburn isn't all that hard, at least it hasn't been for me, and my knuckles will drag with my arm out a low cars window

The even funnier part is I hadn't ever trimmed a piece of brass for it in about 6 years. I finally just trimmed them a bit this past fall to square them up a little. Maybe just lazy but they just never grew enough to mess with.

I even thought about getting Bob's Simillion Mashburn when it was for sale and decided to leave good enough alone and keep using mine, cause other than John55, who needs 2 Mashburns











Even shoots the old Bitterroots real well..

2014 when I brought the old XTR 7 Rem home after getting punched out to the 7 MSM..



Pretty standard set up of the day. Leupold 6x42 M1 dial, Duplex Reticle



My first set of work up loads after fireforming.





All the while I am on the range feeding Bob my numbers and sending pictures to him.. He says Scotty, try 75.5 of H1000 and see what you get..



I rechecked it again, just to make sure I wasn't crazy..



Needless to say, that is what I used that fall.

I enjoyed reaching back and remembering that first gun. Old clubby B&C stock on it, plain old Leupold with Weaver rings I think, and that rifle just shot.

Ended up tipping a cow over post haste at 250 with it that Fall and it's been downhill ever since

Sorry for the late response Scotty. Thanks for your thoughtful post. I’ve always liked your Mashburn and its Fwt contour! Yeah, you might be right about the amount of Mashburn barrels Dober has burned up. Truth is, like me, anymore his “big gun” is a 270, and most of his game falls to a 22-250, though he did take an elk this year with a suppressed 7mm WSM / M70. 150 Scenar at 400 yards. More later - I can’t stand typing on an iPad (grin).

No worries Brad. I enjoyed walking the dog on my Mashburn experience to date.

I remember getting some target pics from Dober when he was shooting his WSM and the Scenars and I don’t know if it was even 2 days later he said he took an elk. Now that’s express load work.

Great thread, Scotty, Brad, et al. Thanks for posting that narrative and pics about your journey with the 7MSM, Scotty. Great read especially txting Bob target pics from the range and him suggesting 1/2 a grain in between a couple of your loads and you then start drilling bug holes! Classic. Cool story and memories. I miss Bob and Dober and never knew them - just from you guys talking about them.

Bob published several books, but am guessing the one you mention is Game Loads and Practical Ballistics for the American Hunter, which was first published in 1978. It influenced me considerably as well--to the point where my first copy fell apart, so I bought a copy of the Wolfe Publishing 1992 reprint. Just went through it, and cannot find where he claimed 3300 with 160's. The fastest velocity mentioned is 3240, but does not mention barrel length.

You are right, I made that correction in this thread and the other threads I started on it. I don't know where I got that 3300, maybe back when I was playing with the 7 STW and the 7mm RUM. Anyhow, my apologies, and to Mr Hagel. Yes, my copy is falling apart, ha.

I just received from Wolfe Publishing a copy of Rifle 103 published in 1986. Hagel had an article in that issue with some 7mm Mashburn load data for two different rifles.

His data showed 3148 fps with 175 grain Partitions and 28" barrel and 3055 with 24" barrel using IMR 7828.

With 160 grain Partitions, his data showed 3292 in the 28" barrel and 3238 in the 24" barrel using IMR 7828.

My first Mashburn was a Weaver built gun on a Kimber action that I bought used here with the original factory stock and a remodeled Bansner Win model 70 stock. Fireformed some brass using Dober's load and found I didn't like that rifle so I sold it with some of the fireformed brass to another member here.

Then I had one built on a Model 70 action by Jim Kobe with a new 26" Brux barrel using the stock from the Kimber which had been remodeled to fit from a Win 70 Bansner stock using Dober's reamer and throated for 195 grain Berger bullets. Still have not shot it but will this spring.