Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Failure via Scenar

This is a spinoff of the other thread. I know people are hesitant to post failures, but I would be interested in hearing if there are any. On a few other forums, I have read of some less than stellar results. The reason I am asking, there is a guy on YouTube that goes by simple minded man or something like that. He tested many different bullets, pc of deer hide and plywood in front of ballistic gel blocks. With the 139 scenar he was getting no expansion at 2100 fps. Made me pause and reconsider using it at 500-600 yards.
Feel free to post what you have personally experienced or seen happen. I know these threads often get into " that wasn't failure, bad shot, how do you know it failed " types of comments. I would prefer those comments not be a part of this thread. I would like to have people share their experience, and why they feel it performed less than desirable. Then let everyone draw their own conclusions in their own minds. There are people like me who truly want to hear/learn, but don't appreciate wading through pages of mudslinging and degrading comments to find a few nuggets worth saving. Please include which caliber/weight scenar you are talking about. And yes, I have read the entire thread on success with Scenars. Just want to see if there are negatives in a hunting situation. Thanks

I've killed a few truck loads of critters with Scenar Bullets, with no failures. Rio7

Well I don't know much about shooting plywood. But I have used the 139 scenar in my Sako 260 for W.T.Deer for several years now. Im Very happy with the results. I have never had any failures. I have started using it in my 6.5 Creed. So far so good.

I use 123's in my 6.5 CM and can tell you for sure they work out to 683 lasered yds. on animals
lighter than deer!

The silence is deafening....

Deer hide with plywood behind to possibly plug the small HP is just a possible recipe for the bullet failing to expand.

If I ever feel the need to hunt plywood encased deer I’ll be sure to choose a different bullet.

How many people do you think are using that specific bullet, and killing critters at 600 yards?

Very very few.

Hence the number of response’s.

You're wasting your time. Rio shoots craploads of game, as do many others here with scenars as evidenced by the dedicated thread. Scenarshooter's rec is another case in "all you need to know" about scenars. Game animals are the best "test media", not deer hides and plywood and all that other crap.

Probably a couple of pigs ?????

Nice answers and I agree, my experience with Scenars in both .308 and 6.5 has been very good. Real world hunting with all the variables is all but impossible to replicate. I always enjoy hearing from people that actually put things to use in "uncontrolled" situations. And there are several on this forum that fit that bill/

Simple truth about bullet's. What one guy calls failed another call good. I think the only thing some people can see is if the animal died or not!

don't care for them, they shoot well, but lack what I like to see in terminal performance, one deer at 781 yards with a 139 at 3280 fps. Hard quartering away, Doe was laying down, impact was just in front of the hip socket, tip broke off on impact, jacket/core separated traveled up along the spine. deer never got up but not much damage. the other was a mature buck at 407 yards,, shot broadside behind the shoulder, saw the bullet impact through the scope. Deer was not recovered. have much better performance from the 140 berger target bullets.

I doubt you’ll get a lot of “negative”. I’ve had piss poor results from anything Barnes but there’s page after page of glowing reviews. For every person who dislikes them and have had a failure you’ll find three people who swear by them. Find what you like and roll with it.

I’ve shot the 90gr 6mm scenar twice at sub100yd coyote sized European deer. FMJ performance so went elsewhere (TMK)

I have only shot two hinds with the 139gr 6,5 Secenar L at 385 and 407 yds.
Muzzle speed was 2,880 fps from a 6,5x57R.
Hit them both well centered in the ribs, right behind the shoulder, which they did not touch.
Both run for 300+ yards and could not have found them without my Bavarian Mountain Blood Hound.
They left no visible blood spoor, just a few drops and some hair where they were standing.
Butchering them showed evidence of very little damage to the lungs. One broke one rib on its way out, the other broke two.
I know the sample is tiny but I did not shoot any more at game after that.
Given how well they seem to work for others, I suspect that could have been a faulty lot but I did not care to insist and try a different one, as many other good options as there are.

I don't know that I'd call them "failures " but I used the 105 6mm scenar quite a bit for a while. If the shoulder bone wasn't caught on a deer or antelope they took a while to upset.

For tight behind the should shots it almost always resulted in a knitting needle entrance wound and 1 lung with almost no damage, ice pick wound. The 2nd lung would look like a grenade hit it and I'd have an exit close to golf ball sized. Everything died and bled well but they ran a lot longer than I was used to seeing.

Catch the onside shoulder and things got better.

I've used the 155 308 scenar some and they have worked well but they have all caught shoulder going in. They are still stout though.

I prefer tipped match bullets to the scenars for deer sized game.

I’m big on eld-m bullets from 1800-2800fps

What’s this got to do with scenars??

Not much honestly..

But they are cheaper and shoot well and do well on game.

That being said the 123, 90gr and 155gr have a huge number of reported good happenings in that 2900-3100 fps start out to about 600 yards.

Makes me think they are a harder (tougher?) bullet that needs a bit of velocity to get upset.

Jeyvod likes to troll

This is my experience, and not just with Scenars.

A while back a gun writer wrote an article about testing bullets in various kinds of media, both "wet" and "dry." He insisted that any hollow-point needed to have the hollow-point filled with something, or it wouldn't expand in "dry" media. If I remember correctly he used Vaseline.

I have tested a bunch of different bullets for expansion in "dry media," mostly stacks of newspaper--and have yet to have a hollow-point fail to expand, whether Berger Hunting VLDs or Barnes Xs....

My Scenar experience is limited, and I am 2 for 2 with good kills on a Pronghorn and Mule deer (6.5/139 and .308/155 respectively). I got inspired by the "Deceased via..." thread and decided to give them a try.
But I think this thread is a great idea. Lots of folks asked for and discussed limited "failures" on the parent thread but I see nothing wrong with a place for counterpoints to live. I want to hear everyone's experience.

Thanks for starting it.

Rex

No trolling here. My weakness is over-thinking things. I do know bullets are like many other things. Some people will swear by them, others will swear at them. Sorry if I came across as trolling but was not my intention.

Only shot it at one animal, 155 scenar out of my .308.
Shot great for grouping and figured I’d give it a try.
Broadside doe at about 150 yds being wooed by a buck. I shot and felt good, watched doe run off with guts dragging below her and buck in fast chase. She laid down about 100 yds away and he mounted her. I shot her in the neck and she fell over.
The first shot was what I’d call great, about 1/3 of the way up from bottom of chest and just above front leg.
Exit was down and right towards her abdomen/back end. Bullet exploded or so it seemed, guts were hanging out, some perforations.
Was it a killing shot, yes eventually, but not what I like to see happen.
Decided against that bullet other than for paper and steel, keep reading good things, but burned once and I lose faith.

JonS, Perfect example of ONE. Rio7

I helped a friend gut a deer he shot with a Scenar out of a .240 Weatherby at probably no more than 100 yards. The damage was extraordinary with a front shoulder area hit. Not sure of the bullet weight. I bought some 155 grain Scenar and started using them in my .30-06 with about 56 grains of IMR 4350 IIRC. The load was as accurate as any I ever used and the rifle showed pressure signs with a heavier dose of powder.

Some hogs and deer I shot went down pretty quick if a shoulder was hit or the CNS. But a behind the shoulder hit that missed the heart would just pencil on through and the race was on. One night I shot a large hog (250-300 lbs.) at 200 yards. It was broadside and I had to pull a little further back in the ribs than usual to avoid hitting a metal post. I was sure of my hold and was using a dead rest. The hog took off and I couldn't see anything of it when I recovered from the recoil. There was not a speck of blood to be found anywhere. The next day I looked carefully for over 200 yards out finding not a sign.

A day or two later my neighbor found it on his place over a quarter mile from where it was shot.

I think the Scenar expands real well at high velocity but my rather tame .30-06 loads just weren't doing it. As I said though it was a very accurate bullet in my rifle and I've not found one better for tight groups. Nowadays I use 180 SST which is slow and not always consistent in terminal performance but its also very accurate and 180 grains of .308 caliber lead does the job and usually opens up a serious leak if the target runs off into the brush. A hog hit in the heart or lungs is going to make a run for it and I'm not good enough for head shots.

So should I go try it again? Yes it is/was a sample of one, but one left a bad taste watching her run with guts leaking. I still load them, like to practice, but haven’t ventured out again to hunt with them.

Well, there is something to be said for hitting the target which is the first order of business, but I've found the heavy SST to be almost as accurate and more damaging which opens up for a blood trail which is helpful in our Louisiana jungle.

I'm often guilting of thinking the critter is "broadsider" than it really is. I want a shoulder going in, or out, or both. I'm not living off the meat, and if I nuke a whole shoulder of a deer it's what, 3-5# of grind? I'll take that over a "behind the shoulder" shot turning into an "oops, that's the liver" and now I've gotta track through an ocean of cattails.

I hit the target where desired, spotter saw it as well and the entrance was right where I always aim, all present thought it was a good shot, just not good performance.

I am agreeing with you. At .30-06 velocity I find that the Scenar didn’t work well for me. The 180 SST isn’t perfect but is more reliable on creating a bigger wound and a blood trail.

A few years ago, my brother-in-law stopped using his 30-06 after decades of success because, in his words, "The elk just aren't going down any more."

He knows how to hunt. He buys and uses Winchester or Remington ammo with 180 grain soft point bullets, whichever has the best price when he happens to be shopping. He never was a long-range shooter, and his elk are generally taken at 150-300 yards. The last elk just walked off after the shot, and following the near-loss of another one the year before, convinced him to put away his Remington 700 and look for something new.

I asked a few questions: Bullet type and weight? Distance? Did you have a steady rest? How did the elk react?

All were within normal parameters, except for the "steady rest" question. He said he was kneeling on the ground, with a tree branch as a rest. I asked how he rested the gun on the branch - on top of his hand, forend directly on the branch or just the barrel touching wood?

"Barrel right on the branch", he said, "solid and steady."

I tried to explain to him that the barrel vibrates with each shot, and resting it on something hard would bounce the barrel upward so that it could have jumped up enough to completely miss his elk at 225+ yards.

He wasn't convinced, and went off to buy a .300 magnum.

The happy end to the story is that when I talked to him after last elk season, he had sold the .300 mag. "It kicked like hell", he said - and went back to his 30-06.

A "sample of one" - or occasionally even two - is usually a poor reason to change something that has been working according to widespread experience.

I have probably shot 40+ deer & Boar with 139 Scenars (6.5 Creedmoor), all one-shot kills & most exited.
Longest shot was 595 yards on a large bull Elk, broadside. He ran <30 yards & fell dead. Tore up the top of his heart & exited.
I reckon my handload was doing ~2160fps at impact.

I wish I could get a factory load!

I shot a cow elk at 930ish yards with a 300 grain Scenar in December. Went through rib cage and obliterated the off side hindquarter. Like 10-15 # of blood shot gooey meat. Can't imagine what it wound have done at 100 yards.

test alt key

I'm having no problem with Scenars in the 6.5 or .308

Does that critter have a piece of string hanging off his left antler beam?

Those are no doubt vines. He didn't go far but where he ended up was a swampy shintangle. North west Mississippi this past november. 155 Scenar from a .308