Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 1/2 MOA Rifle, But...

A 1/2 MOA rifle based on 2 or three shots… you are making guesses.

Shoot 20 rounds and see what a better representation of your group is, I’ll bet the “first round flyer” is inside of your group - assuming it’s from a fouled barrel. Certainly, your group size is way bigger than 1/2 MOA.

A lot of guys want to overlook this, but it's exactly true!!^^^ One reason they used 10 shot groups in the "MOA All day long" challenge here. Shoot those groups in that fashion, and a lot of guys realize they don't even have true MOA rifles. There has been a lot less guys saying they have "1/2 moa" rifles here, since that thread came out though. Thanks for the guy that started that thread! A lot of guys tried, and a lot of guys failed to produce..

take it out to the range and shoot it 6 (the first is a fouler shot) times at the target. DO NOT CLEAN THE BARREL. the next day or week, shoot a 5 shot group. DO NOT CLEAN THE BARREL. and the next day or week, shoot another 5 shot group. if all 5 shot groups are 1/2 - 3/4", then you don't have clean barrel. the rifle will tell you not to clean the barrel for hunting. after the season is closed, clean the barrel.

the reason is the first shot is need to put copper/lead residue into the lands and grooves to make them smooth. it can be the first shot or it can fifth shot.

a big part of the reason is why i use cast bullets on deer is that i don't like to clean my rifles. oh, i will always use a gun rag with Ballistol to clean the outside of the rifle, but i hate to clean the inside of the rifle barrel. my dad (RIP) and the US Army made me clean the rifles, both inside and out, when i was done shooting them. they made me the monster that i am.

i have a Marlin m25 in 22LR that shoots bug holes (CCI Stinger HP) at 50 yards. but when i clean the rifle, it is always 25 to 50 rounds fired thru Marlin to settle it down so i can shoot bug holes again. the only time i clean the inside of the barrel is when the brass is stuck in the chamber after the shot. i can go 4000-5000 rounds before i clean the inside of the barrel.

my 444 Marlin (TC Encore with 23"MGM barrel) using cast bullets is around 2500-3000 rounds fired and it is still accurate. same with the 30-40 Krag, 35/30-30, 9.3x57 and others.

That’s what I was thinking myself. BG rifle or not, that’ll tell you what the gun is doing.

My first shot at the range from a clean barrel is fouling shot not on the target, then I shoot for 3 or 5 shot groups. Before the hunt I make sure the barrel is clean then I will shoot one or two fouling shots and go hunting.

I had a rifle that shot 3/8" groups if they were all first shots from a clean barrel. Turned out to have nothing to do with the clean and everything to do with the cleaning. (I'll explain. :)) Eventually I found that if I whacked the ever loving f**k out of the butt between shots they'd all do that. SOMETHING was binding up and in the process of cleaning the gun, I was thumping it enough to release whatever tension was appearing. My theory was that the barreled action was shifting during recoil, sticking to the stock, and not returning to a neutral position unless I bashed it around (through cleaning) enough to break that contact.

I had another that had a different root to the 1 shot here, 4 over there. That one shot was always first. I always oiled the bore, then ran 2 dry patches through the barrel before putting it away. If, before shooting it, I'd use an aggressive degreaser, the shift between the first shot and the rest went away. So not first shot fouling but first shot on an oily bore, the rest without the oil.

My suggestion is to experiment s' more.

Try to have a few different friends shoot groups with it and see if it’s repeatable.

My first shot hunting is from a barrel that last shot at the range and I was satisfied with it's shooting there and there has been no bore cleaning whatsoever. That will come at season end... maybe.

^

I definitely have to shoot it more and experiment more. My hunting load is with Barnes LRX bullets, and at $1 a bullet, when they’re even available, I tend to be a bit stingy with the shooting. I’ll have to start working with something cheaper until I have it sorted out.

That was my thought also based on my experience with my Kimber. The factory bedding looked flawless but when I tightened down the front screw only the tang was about 1/8 above the stock so the bedding was actually torquing the action. My bedding doesn't look as pretty but it works better.

I too have a 700 Mountain rifle that did this (pillars, full bed). I believe the cause to be the pencil thin barrel and heat; I got to this point b/c after shots 5 or 6, it would open up further. What I did has been suggested above - I came out 5 days in a row and shot a single, cold-bore shot on the same target. .65MOA with 4 touching. I used this rifle to hunt with for over a decade, zeroing in on my first shot, cold-bore. No worries. And I distinctly remember cleaning making all grouping worse.

Then I started reloading. I finally found Nosler Ballistic Tips with Varget will group tight shots 1 through a barrel too hot to touch. This is the ONLY load I have found that does this. My diagnosis is a thin barrel. I think the Montana also has a thin barrel as well.

-B

This has been my experience and my solution with both my hunting rifles. They don't settle down until the barrels are fouled. So, that's the way I shoot em.

If the recoil lug isn't bedded correctly, that's the first place to look. -Al

If fouling the barrel then leaving it doesn’t work, consider bedding the barrel full-length. I’ve had a couple light-barreled rifles come that way from the factory, a Howa Alpine and a Fieldcraft, and they shot just fine. I believe I’ve read that NULAs came that way too.

Also, try a folded towel on the front bag when you shoot. Mule Deer advises that for light ones, and I’ve found it helps.

I am a True Believer in Cryo-Treating skinny barrels. If I have a light barrel that "walks" my group, etc, I spend the $150 and send the barreled action off to "300 Below" or some other place, for Stress Relieving. I have spent more money, shot more components, bit my lip more, fussed and agonized over more light rifles/light barrels than any other! In fact, If I "knew" that barrel would "scream" when its being frozen, I would pay extra for a recording of it...on some rifles, lol. Rarely have I seen this not settle down ol' Skinny! Just a suggestion, I have no investment in the Process or in selling the recordings to their frustrated owners! lol

A quick search showed a place that does cryo treatment not that far from me in Worcester, MA. I happen to be driving by there in a few weeks. Maybe I'll drop off the barrelled action there, give it a try.

If the lug doesn't fit the mortise well, the action can't return to the same place after each shot. This is often seen as a first round flier...subsequent shots are a bit tighter as the lug has settled into place a bit.

A good test for this is to remove the barrelled action, then reinstall it properly seating the lug. Often, that will settle down the first shot flier for a few groups.

Good shootin' -Al

Agree Big Time!

I just pressed the barrelled action back into the stock after I finished bedding it. Then I torqued the two action screws to factory spec. Should I have done something differently?