Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Winchester Collectors Winny wsm

So im curious! When the wsms hit im thinking, were reinventing the wheel. Only one that interested me was the 325, I think because it was different. However, as time has gone on, and being a 300 win mag fan, all I can think is... maybe the 300 wsm in the right rifle would be the ultimate, imo that is. So the idea is, a 300 on a short action to reduce weight, but, most ive seen use a sporter style barrel, which will add weight, and I question the action length on most. Being a winny fan, I've seen wsms in fwt stocks and sporter barrels, but thats not what I want. Im assuming winshester made them in a true fwt, but are the a true sa? Just seems that we take a cartridge that is designed for one thing, and screw it up. I screwed up when I let my sil have my weatherby ul 280. That was the nicest carry rifle I've ever had. The older I get, the lighter I like them, but I guess I'm not recoil shy.

FW stocks but never a FW contour on the WSM’s.

Thats what I thought ak, kinda stupid imo. What invent the damned thing? Is it a true sa?

why i meant.

My lefty 7 WSM is a short action. I do think Winchester's short action is still a bit longer in the mag box than other models. Still over 7 lbs with a walnut featherweight stock.

Thanks Scott. I know in the old days they were all the same, just different configuration, dont understand why we would chamber an idea with what we already have. 300 wsm is a good idea chambered in a rifle that suits what it was designed to accomplish.

Yep. Ejection port is longer too, if you are ever ordering a McMillan for them.

Exactly. If it were me, I'd drop the barreled action into a Mcmillan hunter's edge, or standard fill hunter's compact. It would bring the rifle down below that 7 pound mark. I've done that with the Extreme weathers, and it totally transforms them for the better.

Guy probably just needs one in a ULA/NULA

I'd take a Tikka, over just about anything made these days.

I had a 300 WSM in a SS Winchester 70 Classic. From the factory it was too heavy. But the plastic stock on the one I bought had been ruined by Bubba the gunsmith. Got the rifle for $250. I bought one of the Edge specials that McMillan used to offer at a discounted price. If I understood right these were stocks that customers ordered, paid a deposit on but never accepted. They sold them for what was owed on them.

With the Edge stock and PTG aluminum bottom metal mine came in at about 6 1/2 lbs naked. About 7 1/2 with Talley lightweight mounts and a Leupold scope. That is about where the WSM's need to weigh. Since I got the rifle and stock at a discounted price, I didn't have all that much in it. But after a few years came to the conclusion that it was just more gun than I needed. I was able to sell it at a small profit.

I liked the cartridge. I could come within 50 fps of 300 WM with 10-15 gr less powder. Recoil from the same weight rifle was noticeably less and about the same from a rifle 1 1/2 lbs lighter.

Most manufacturers never figured out what to do with the cartridges. Most of that was due to the Rick Jamison lawsuit. If you're not familiar Jamison developed a wildcat cartridge and offered to sell the rights to Winchester. They declined, but a year later introduced the identical 300 WSM cartridge. Jamison sued and won. The terms of the lawsuit required Winchester and everybody else making cartridges in any WSM cartridge to pay a royalty to Jamison.

After the lawsuit only Winchester/Browning, Tikka and Kimber continued making WSM rifles and none pushed them very hard. Remington and Ruger developed their own short action magnums to avoid paying the Royalty.


The 300 WSM shoots the same bullet weights to the same speed with better BC's for long range performance. The .015" greater bullet diameter is about 1/4 the thickness of a dime.

The Jaimison lawsuit really effected Ruger as well. Even their rifles chambered for the RSAUM cartridges. One of the reasons they started making their own shorty magnum (RCM). I have a Ruger m77 mk2 300RSAUM, and I like it better than any 300WSM model 70 I've ever had. Just sold a 300WSM Tikka to a buddy that weighs 7 pounds scoped. That rifle is a beauty, and I also liked it better than any model 70 300WSM. No flies on the cartridge, except it's fat, and takes up a lot of magazine space. For the hunting I do, I was better off with a 30-06 running 200gr partitions. If you can't kill something wtih that combo, you have no business hunting.. I would also rather have 5 in the box, and one in the chamber (6 total) vs. 3 in the magazine (3 total) in the Win model 70.

Bought a Win M70 Black Shadow in 300wsm from Walmart on close out about 15 years ago for a little over $300 with a cheap scope. One of the best deals I did in the last couple decades. Great moose, caribou and bear rifle.

appreciate the info guys. I've never owned a Tikka with the exception of a 223 but I let it go before I even shot it. I know guys who have them and really like them, I just never really got excited about them. I don't need another rifle, but was just thinking about the ultimate elk hunting rifle, and I do like the idea of the wsm, if it is wrapped in the right rifle. Just seems most don't do that.

That's about where I ended up. 7mm WSM classic M70 stocked in a McMillan Bridges Edge, with factory bottom metal, dual dovetail Leupolds and a 3X9 Conquest weight is 7 pounds 14 oz.

Oh, no, let's not go off the tracks here, but "ultimate elk rifle" could mean so many different things. Depending on who you ask. I'll be the first to say that I love Winchester model 70's. I also love elk hunting. Always took vacation time off to go elk hunting, every year!! I'll miss that too!!

But "ultimate elk rifle"? Don't get me started. I've carried them, and still I say the Tikka is better. They are lightweight, and they pack well. Balance well, and shoot lights out. You never hear about poor shooting Tikka's. You have to put way more money into a Winchester model 70 to get it close to equalling a Tikka, as far as a good elk hunting rifle is concerned, IMHO.

Also, to me, you make it sound like you need a 300WSM for hunting elk. That is probably the most spewed misinformation that guys read/hear in magazines and the interweb. You don't need a magnum cartridge to hunt/kill an elk. It really starts with the right bullet for the job. A 243 winchester will cleanly kill an elk, if you put the right bullet in the right spot.

Where I hunt elk, I like a lighter weight rifle because the terrain is pretty mountainous, and brushy. Sure, you can pack around a heavy rifle, but it starts to wear on you, over the course of a week long hunt. I know, some guys think/believe I don't hunt/shoot elk because I rarely post pics of my kills. I believe the majestic elk deserve better, as do the bucks I shoot. I don't hang heads on my walls either, but that's just me.

But here goes, so you know I'm not talking out my azz:

Winchester model 70 300WSM. Using 180gr Nosler partition. Required 2 shots. One through the heart, and the next to anchor him, as he ran off. Second shot made him do a nose dive in the snow:

To be totally honest, this rifle was a disappointment on that hunt. The scope was too big, as that affected the balance of the rifle, the cartridge pizzed me off, as you can only put 3 in the rifle. That's fu cking it! I tried 3 in the box, and 1 in the chamber, as I normally do my magnums, and it dented the shoulder so badly that I really didn't want to use that cartridge.

The other thing I did not like was the elk caught one of the 180gr Nosler partitions. Should have passed thru right? Nope, it didn't. I'd rather use a 30-06 with a 200gr partition, than that fat bastid again. Just me and my experience though. Another reason I suggest a Tikka over a model 70. Sorry guys, that's been my experience.

Like I said, everything about the rifle was bothering me on this hunt. In this pic, you'll notice the butler creeks are gone, and so is the sling. The only way you are going to find out if a rifle is going to suit your needs is by hunting it. That was a cold hunt that year. We packed that bull out when it was 3 degrees below zero.

As for accuracy, the rifle shot lights out. It was a 2008 limited edition, that I installed an EW barrel on, so it was one of the good ones, before they started making them in Portugal. I sold the rifle after that hunt.

Here's a great rifle, that I love carrying. It balances great, and shoots damn well. A pre 64 model 70 in a Brown PoundR stock, chambered in 338WM. Doesn't get much better as an elk hunting rifle than that. 4 cartridges in the mag box, and one in the chamber. 5 rounds total capacity. Rifle weighs 7 pounds bare and 8 pounds scoped.

Hell, I have 2 magnums set up exactly like this, so I must like the combo:

The bottom rifle is a 300WBY. It has the same capacity as the 338wm, and weighs the same. Both rifles shoot and pack very nice. Well balanced, and they point like an extension of my arm. That's also damn important, in my experience.

Those are sledge hammers. If you can shoot them, they work great on elk:

One well placed shot from that load, and the bull dropped on the spot. Didn't even take a step..

But don't get fooled into thinking you need a 300 magnum, or 338 magnum for hunting elk. They are great, if you can handle them. Some guys can't, while others do very well with them.

Now, for the Tikka I was talking about. This one is a 300WSM:

It consistently shoots like this:

I recently sold this rifle to my buddy, and he loves it. He'll undoubtedly use it on elk and big mule deer. But there again, that magnum is not necessarily needed. This rifle holds 3 in the detachable mag, and one in the chamber (4 total capacity).

The last bull I shot, fell to a 140gr TTSX from a 7mm-08 Tikka T3x stainless lite rifle. That rifle weighs the same as my buddies 300WSM Tikka, and it worked great on the spike bull I shot a couple years ago. Showing you don't need magnum power to properly anchor an elk:

One well placed shot, and the bull just fell over.

That rifle packed and handled like a dream on that hunt. They are lightweight, and well balanced. Trust me, you'll feel that after a week long hunt. Some rifles, you'll feel after the first day.

So, your last comment about that cartridge (300WSM), being wrapped in the right rifle, you may have to figure that out on your own. But in my experience, I'll take the Tikka, over the Winchester, and I am one of the true Winchester lovers here. I do however, always look at things in a non biased way, and form my own opinion after using them: Using them, meaning a lot of range time, and in field use. YMMV...

A light .300WSM with a stout bullet sounds pretty good to me. Elk come in a lot of sizes, cows spikes, raghorns and big bulls. If I have a bull tag, i want to carry something that can penetrate deeply from a not so perfect angle if needed on the largest bull I may see. I have pretty much circled back to a a light 30-06 with 200 partitions for elk.

That 30-06 with the 200gr partition is an eye opener for sure!! I love using mine. They penetrate elk handily. One thing I can honestly say in regards to the "size" of an elk, it's not about how big they are, it boils down to how much fight they have in them. I've dropped a lot on the spot, big and small. Some of the ones that did run were the cows I've shot. Even when shot with a 9.3x62mm using 286gr partitions, they ran. Some ran 30 yards, some ran 90 yards. Didn't really care for that schidt.

You'd have to hold a gun to my head to get me to give up my 7 MSM with 175's. Pretty fast, hits well out yonder and doesn't beat on me like the 300's do, but I don't find any of the 300's real hard to shoot either, I just hold em tighter

I used the 212 ELD's a couple falls ago for a bull at 400. I was mighty impressed with how it works. Seen a bunch taken with the 300 and 30-06 with 180 PT's, 165 and 200 AB's, 165 Scirocco's and probably some others I am forgetting but man, seems like they have all really worked excellent. Not may of them I couldn't or wouldn't hunt with.

Here is a picture illustrating body sizes. Apologies for fuzzy cellphone pic. Small branch antlered bulls in foreground. Trophy bull in trees. Killed that bull a month later.

Boy those big fella's are a whole nother level of big!

A 7mm-08 with the right bullet will knock that bulls di ck in the dirt.

I was at the range yesterday, and had to listen to a guys bullschidt about how his 26 Nosler would cleanly kill an elk at 1,000 yards. Then he proceeded to not hit the target with said rifle. Rifle was a brand new Christensen (he said he bought it last year), wearing a new Hawke 5-30x56 rifle scope and Talley lightweights that were supposed to have 20 moa built into them. He had the turret cranked all the way down, but was hitting 10" high at 100. He said that the velocity of the bullet probably had something to do with the scope not adjusting all the way down. Then proceeded to shoot a 5" group, put the rifle away and said he had to take it home to clean the barrel as part of the break in process.. I told him good luck, and I hoped he didn't have to shoot at an elk with that rifle.

That 338 mag in the Brown stock doesn't leave a lot of room for improvement!

Sure your 7-08 would BSA, my 6.5 - 06 with a 127 grain Barnes killed that bull with one shot... I had recently sold my .300 WIN Mag and it was the largest cartridge in my collection at the time. That doesn't mean it is the most appropriate tool for the job! Those bulls spend a lot of time in the dark timber above 9500 feet in my spot and I want to be prepared for a less than perfect shot angle.

Mike, what shot would you not wanna take with that combo of 6.5 and 127 LRX? Brother took a cow this fall at 500 with that bullet this past fall, I was very impressed with it. Just wondering where you'd worry about it not working.

While it dropped the bull in its tracks, I was impressed enough by its shear body size to want more wallop with a larger caliber heavier bullet. I would be concerned with a hard quartering away shot, which I have never had to take, but there is always a first time. I still have the 6.5-06 for Coues deer, although I used my 30-06 with a 155 Scenar this last year just to change things up.

Totally understand the want for more. I probably err on the side of being bigger than needed, but I have pondered a few times if a 270 wouldn't have done about all of them the same. I was pretty sure it was a sure yes till we had three elk this year between 500 and two at 600. The 500 yard bull, no issues, but I was glad to have a little extra at 600. Not saying it wouldn't have been the same, cause it could have been, I just fell into your camp, having a bit extra made me feel better'er.

Wasn’t long ago you claimed anyone that shot a short action cartridge was a puzzy.

You’re a clown.

I have a M70 7wsm in a McMillan compact stock. It weighs just over 7# with talleys and a Leupold. It shoots 140 TTSX sub moa. It’s a wonderful rifle.
I have the same setup in a 270 win. Same same.

Nice looking rifle RP. I have a M70 7 WSM in a EDGE filled Bridges.

I've had at least 5 different M70 300 WSM's. One I cut to 22", but I found it lost a lot of velocity - like around 90 fps (not all inches cut are the same, and the 25fps rule doesn't always hold true). My friend Pete H. was the Chief Design Engineer at USRAC when the 300 WSM was being developed at Olin, and we corresponded a lot about the WSM's and the M70 platform prior to them being released. He (and by extension USRAC) was originally going to release all the WSM's with 22" barrels, but I talked him out of that. I convinced him Western hunters would want the extra barrel length, and that it was easier to cut off 2" than add it back (lol). Generally I prefer sticking with the 24" barrel on the 300 WSM, but I had at least one that I ran at 23." Anyway, Pete trusted me and they released them with 24" barrels.

Here's some older threads on lightening the M70 WSM:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/5472414/300-wsm-build-what-action
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/6131485/model-70-fwt-300-wsm

Personally, my favorite WSM action is the Kimber 8400, and the MT stock sucks up recoil like nothing else I've ever used. I personally think the barrel is too light, but that can be remedied. I've had at least 6 or 7 McMillan Hunter Edge stocks, and I find them brutal. The Edge fill and comb drop magnify recoil for me. Doing an M70 WSM today, I'd just find an EW and drop it in a Bansner. I'd use PT&G Aluminum bottom metal, Talley Lwt's and a Butler Creek Mountain Sling. Depending on the scope, you can keep the entire "all up" package sub 8lbs.

Making a gun light and expecting it to ease up in the recoil department doesn’t happen. Sure the stock design may make it feel not as bad. But it’s a hunting gun, not a bench gun. If you can’t haul a 8.5# er around, don’t complain about the recoil when your burning out the barrel of your favourite lightweight rifle on the gong range.