Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 1/2 MOA Rifle, But...

Not really, but you could try to back off to about 40 inch pounds and shoot it to see. Doesn't take much when there is bedding. For example, my new to me MK V ULTLWT in 338/06 shot tighter at 50 inch pds than at 55". It has a factory bedding block, but the lug could always use bedding. That was an indication to me the action was being strained. I have it over at the smith's getting re-bedded ( previous owner Bubbafied it, heck, while there I him ream it to the Ackley Imp. He likes to torque them to 35-40" pds. Also Lock tite the receiver screws when/if you find a sweet spot.

I torqued it to 45 inch lbs. I'll try 40, can't hurt.

I've got a 1966 vintage Model 70- in 30-06, that my Dad bought new. He only used Hoppes #9 on it, but I do not know how often he cleaned it.

When I first got it, I put together several different loads and headed to the range. It was a solid 2" shooter, with most of the loads, with none better than that.

The barrel was heavily coppered, judging from the green streaks at the muzzle, so I went after the copper with Hoppes Benchrest Copper Remover. After 1/2 of the bottle, there was still green streaks.

Wipeout came on the market about this time, with very good reviews, so I bought some, and over a Memorial Day weekend, I got the barrel clean.

At the 100yds range, the very first shot from the squeaky clean barrel did not even hit paper, and shot #2 was 8" off center.

After shot 2, the barrel settles down and shoots very, very well with it's favorite load. It will maintain accuracy for about 21-23 more shots, then the groups open up, and I have to deep clean again, fire 2 foulers, and then I can hunt with it.

One of the things I started doing quite a few years back was recording every group fired between cleanings. This was back in the day when a lot of gun writers suggested the "correct" cleaning interval, based on what benchrest shooters did--and even one major loading manual suggested the correct cleaning interval for various rounds--why, I don't know, since with most "hunting" cartridges the barrel tends to affect groups more than the cartridge itself.

Eventually found that for some unknown reason, quite a few barrels barrels will go only 15-20 rounds without cleaning before groups open up--while a few barrels will basically go forever--and when you do clean 'em groups open up, and sometimes stay that way for 10-15 rounds of "foulers." Two of my varmint rifles are luckily like that, a Remington 700 Varmint .223 Remington, and a CZ 452 .17 HMR. I eventually quit cleaning either at all. Their last cleaning was years ago (2006 for the .223) and both keep putting 5 shots in around half any inch at 100 yards. But I'm one of those shooters who would rather spend time shooting rifles rather than cleaning 'em.

Will also note that installing Dyna Bore-Coat extends cleaning intervals considerably before groups start opening up--and often seems to reduce "fliers" even after a cleaning. In the case of one .17 Remington it doubled the accuracy cleaning interval from around 100 rounds to 200. Clean-burning powders with decoppering agents often do the same sort of thing.

My test for good bedding is to tighten only 1 screw then tighten the other. The second screw should go from loose to tight in about 1/4 turn. If that works take out both screws and repeat with the opposite sequence. If there is a bedding problem the second screw that you tighten will have some resistance for a turn or two before it gets to the torque value. If that goes well you should be GTG.

The first rifle is a bedding issue. Not a "cleaning issue", as you state: The action should not be loose in the stock, for any reason. Yet, a lot of you guys make them that way, by allowing clearance in front and on the sides of the recoil lug etc. etc... That will fu ck up any precision you ever thought you had. If it's not shooting consistently, it might as well be thrown in the trash can.

The second rifle sounds like you need to lay off the oil. You should never have that much oil in the bore, that it's going to affect first shot POI.

Learn to bed them tight, and you won't have to fu ck around with that bull schidt..

Thanks for saying the quiet part out loud

Here's one for the 'Bed It Tight' advocates to ponder. This came to me recently for help after being done elsewhere initially.

Barrelled actions want one recoil lug surface...and that's the back of the recoil lug. Not the sides, not the front, not the bottom (unless the action screw goes into the lug), not the action screws, not the back of the tang. When you have multiple recoil loading surfaces that are not in line with what the barrelled action naturally does when it's fired, this can be the result.


Good shootin' -Al

Amen!

With multiple recoil surfaces, it's impossible for all of the surfaces to carry the same load or react in the same manner. Which prevents the barrelled action from staying in the same spot after each firing....which is what bedding is really all about. It's Physics 101 at it's most basic level.

As the example illustrates, bedded 'tight' recoil surfaces don't always carry the load rearward.

Good shootin' -Al

Or to put it another way, the recoil lug only has ONE job -to prevent REARWARD recoil. Anything else introduces more potential issues.

One other thing, unless the front and sides have a draft (taper) machined into them, a tightly bedded lug will shave material when being taken in an and out of the stock. There is almost no way to avoid it .

The only instance I would consider a fully bedded lug is if the barrelled action is permanently glued it.

Yep!

One my my favorite hunting rifles is a custom on a 700 action that had a fully-bedded lug--and an "over-sized" one, which isn't uncommon on such rifles.
It was a major PITA to take the stock off--and one of the things I prefer doing on hunts where I fly somewhere is taking the stock off the barreled action, so they'll fit in a "take-down" case.

I eventually ended up doing an experiment: After working up very accurate handloads with the fully-bedded lug, I filed all the lug-surfaces inside the stock until the only bedding surface was the rear of the lug. I then shot the rifle with the same loads, and there was no significant difference in the average group size. That was with 5-shot groups, not the these-days typical (but statistically far less valid) 3-shot groups....