Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Maybe we obsess too much

I caught that too.

ThThats your choice, ive shot atleast a dozen hunting rifles off of bipods at 650-700 that will shoot 1.5-2" groups consistently in good conditions its why I only shoot load development in good conditions after that I dont care about some wind.

If you're not ham-fisted using a sliding sleeve support die like the Redding or Forster the bullet will be aligned with the neck before the actual seating begins.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, either.................& it doesn't sound like you were obsessing over it at all.

This thread has gotten totally distorted, driven by FA's comments & into oblivion & off the edge of reality, regarding handloading.

The OP showed a nice illustration of the effect of 1.5 gr variation in a nominal 41 grain load..........................but I'd be willing to be a LOT of money that mathman's loads didn't have that much variation..................& neither do anyone else's that are worthy of being called a HL'er.

And all w/o obsessing....................over SD & ES.

If you accept that, to a significant degree, SD/ES are driven by powder charge variation, most HL'er are not going to accept a combination of powder, equipment & technique that gives 1.5 gr powder variation within a lot of handloaded ammo.

And given today's types of powders available, the equipment available & much more than basic handloader know-how, there's no need to get that kind of variation in performance on target due to velocity variations (SD/ES) that would drive the kind of on-target variation with a reasonably good shooting hunting rifle.

But using coarse powders, with a schitty powder measure, combined with sloppy technique will surely give far more than "good" results in powder charge variability, & subsequently poor ES/SD, & probably less than desired performance on the target.

But in today's world, you don't have to obsess to fix most of that.

There are lots of relatively fined grained powders that flow well for virtually any application.

There are plenty of good powder feeders that are verry accurate & repeatable in their performance.

And there are even more sophisticated tools like an RCBS ChargeMaster.....................if you still want to use a stick powder & not trickle to load by hand.

Or in the worst case, if you insist on using coarse powders, you can always manually trickle to load weight. (That's getting close to obsessive & stupid, today)

And you can learn better & more consistent loading techniques.

And best of all, none of that is "obsessive"........................

But FA did get one thing right; you can't overcome whatever the inherent, baseline capability of the rifle might be..................but you can make it as good as it can be.

And that's not obsessive.

Obsessive & anal retentive is BR shooting. And BR handloading. For discussion.

YMMV

MM

Exactly. In the notes it says thrown charges of IMR 4064, which is a relatively coarse stick powder in case a reader of the thread doesn't know. I'd be weighing charges in obsessive mode.

What is so obsessive about BR shooting? Is it because there competive? Its no different than fishing, racing, golf or any other sport they want shoot the smallest group or biggest score. Do you go fishing with your buddy to catch the smallest fish?

No, but I don't use a Formula 1 car to run down to the corner grocery either.

By the way ive never shot any kind of competition match in my life

Neither do I, drove a 93 chevy pickup for 20+ years.

Match shooting or not, if you want/need 2" groups at 700 yards then I certainly agree meticulous prep is required.

I didn't say there was anything wrong with it.

But I called it obsessive, because, compared to everyday handloading, all aspects must be far more detailed with even more specialized, special purpose hardware and it not, then you will not be competitive.

Weighed, specially produced bullets, etc., blah, blah, blah.

MM

You are completely wrong, I have no specialized anything all my Bergers are pulled straight out of the box and seated absolutely no measuring.
Its all about the right tools, procedures, components and willingness. As far as rifles most all mine and relatives and friends I load for 80% are Rem 700 actions no 'truing" custom barrels and decent triggers and stocks i have bedded myself. Most scopes are atleast 18x or more not 1 is anything close to a 4,000' full on custom gun

Then you're not a real BR shooter, & you said that you don't compete.....................I have a friend who was & did. Quite successfully.
Been although all his procedures & equipment & supplies.

MM

My grandfather used to say:

"Everybody is screwy about something, some more so than others and about different things, which is their right. The problem comes when one puts his obsessions above the obsessions of others."

I dont and never have, go to the Missoula Deep Creek range at there last match of the year and see what the 10.5lb hunting rifles shoot at 1,000 you will see what I'm talking about.

It seems some have problems with some that can and will and some that don't and won't which is fine with me, just don't tell me it takes this specialized this that or the other anytime you wanna see my "specialized" tools your in Havre more than willing to look.

I meant that more or less TIC................the real competitors (in my mind) who take it 120% seriously, are obsessive..................maybe not to themselves,

but what they do is what it takes to be competitive.

There's no reason to do what they do for hunting rifles needs. & short of neck turning, I do as much as is needed to get as much as I can out of my gear.

But I'm far from obsessive.

YMMV

MM

Its really ironic some of you that wanna portray me as obsessed with my reloading and shooting which is farthest from the truth. You wanna ASSUME I have all the pricey rifles and equipment just makes it even more Hillarious. I dont give 2 [bleep] about runout or E.S and S.D
simply because target tells everything.

Might be mistaken, but I think a few years ago Muledeer did an an article about the larger the cartridge the less impact small increments of powder matters.
Personally, I am happy if load shoots 1 &1/2 " at 100 yards although I have few rifles that do better. That will kill a deer or an elk out further than I can shoot.

An "obsession" like squeezing every ounce of accuracy out of a rifle is what some of us do. Knowing the limits of the rifle, ammo, and shooter are what some of us can't comprehend. Some of us will get to a point where we are pulling our hair out, and then quit. Accepting it for what it is.

I will say that every used rifle I've bought over the last few years (and maybe even more) has been more than capable enough to shoot a big game animal at a measly 400 yards. Groups at 100 yards sub 1" for 5 shots. That can be achieved, but it does take work, in most cases.

My most recent centerfire rifle, being an older Sako that I really like. Is one such critter. Haven't even worked on loads too much with the rifle, but had to get the mechanicals down pat. It needed proper glass bedding, barrel freefloat, to the proper degree. This one required some bedding under the chamber, which some do, and some don't. That is a mechanical thing, where you have to experiment to find out. So, I started with a load that I use in my girlfriends new to her Winchester classic compact and just used it in the Sako.. Easy enough. The rifle shot a very consistent 1.25 moa for 5 shots at 100 yards, and almost 1/2 moa for 3 shots at 400 yards. Now with some bedding and a little work, it shoots that same load into sub moa for 5 shots at 100 yards, and it still prints close to 1/2 moa for 3 shots at 400 yards. The thought crossed my mind many many times with this rifle, that this is GOOD enough!!!! Its' not a benchrest rifle, it's a classic hunting rifle and I'm basically treating it as such.

One reason I like my Tikka rifles, they are very little fuss for the amount of reward you get on target. Easy to develop loads for, they are lightweight and balance well when packing them around in the woods. Win win in my book. All the other rifles out there are projects in the box, waiting to be wrung out.

Someone mentions runout. Oh boy, lets not get started with runout!!! That needs to be minimal if you want good shooting ammo. Even my hunting ammo has low (sub .003" TIR) runout. When setting up my dies, I always set them to produce minimal runout. That is a must. That may be "obsessive", because we all know it's not totally required to kill a deer or elk. But if you extend those ranges you shoot, you better come prepared!! You owe that to the critter you are hunting.

One of my favorite elk hunting rifles for example. It has a custom barrel on it, and it shoots very well:


Is that level of precision really needed for an elk hunting rifle? Maybe not, but it never hurts..: