Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters What is it about "match" bullets

What is it about match style bullets that make them accurate? I was struggling to get a particular gun to shoot, even after free floating the barrel, bedding the action etc. I am talking barely able to get down to 1.5 at 100 yards, with 2-3 inches being the norm. Took it to a local gunsmith to see if I was missing something. He suggested trying match bullets before doing something drastic like replacing the barrel. This is a 260 rem we are talking about. I tried the Sierra 140 match HPBT bullets, and like the first powder I tried I got a .8 group. That was impressive to me. I then got some 139 Scenars to try. Those resulted in a .6 group, followed a few days later by my first sub half inch at 100 yards. It was a .48 4 shot group . So apparently the gun can shoot. Since then I tried a few different "hunting" bullets. Tried the Sierra 130 game changer, the 120 Nosler E-tip, and the 140 Hornady SST. Once again, I am struggling to get under 1.5. That got me wondering, what is the difference between "match" and " hunting" bullets? I really don't feel like trying 10 different bullets to find one it likes.

Initially I thought it may be a seating depth issue, the match bullets were short enough that I could seat them just touching the lands while still fitting in the magazine. But I tried seating the Hornadys and the Noslers against the lands and loading them one at a time, and still 1?5 inch groups. May need to just hunt with the Scenars yes I have read the " deceased via Scenar" thread. But I have a hard time convincing myself that match bullets are also hunting bullets.

A match bullet isn't necessarily a bad hunting bullet. Some of them would be a poor choice, others, like the Scenar are quite effective.

It's not just any match bullet. I had a Bergara 308 that I simply couldn't get to shoot better than 1 1/2" groups. I understand that is acceptable for most hunting, but I didn't buy this rifle to hunt with. I have other 308 rifles and a with a variety of loads all will shoot 1" or better. Often approaching 1/2" with 155 gr Scenar's.

I really wanted to like this rifle so I returned it to Bergara. They tweaked a few things and returned it with a target showing 3 holes just over .4". With 168 gr Federal Match Kings. Even with their tweaks it shot no better with my handloads or any other factory loads I tried. At the time the only factory 168 gr Match Kings I could locate were selling for about $60/box. I wasn't going to pay that and have a rifle that only shot well with one load. I sold the rifle.

Some really good hunters use match bullets, and not just scenars. Match bullets commonly have high BCs and fly better in the wind. The common denominator I've seen with hunters that use them is that they're proficient enough that they're comfortable taking longer shots than most, and they put more of a premium on accuracy and shot placement than bullet construction designed for penetration.

The jackets are the biggest single difference. A true 'match' quality jacket will show no more than .0002-.00025 T.I.R. whereas a production hunting bullet will have jacket runout numbers in the .002-.003 range. The more concentric the jacket wall, the more balanced the bullet is as it spins, the less it wobbles around it's center and the less it deviates in it's travel. A good analogy is a football. Imagine taping weight on one area of the football and then trying to get it to do a nice spiral pass.

True accuracy jackets are also subject to more stringent Q.C. checks during manufacturing. One of the biggest of these is the hardness of the material itself.

The last 8,000 J4 jackets I recieved last Fall for the .30 cal. BR bullets I make showed no more than .00015 T.I.R. (total indicated runout). The previous 16,000 were no more than .00018.

Dies used for accuracy bullet making insure that the base of the bullet is precisely perpendicular to the straight section of the shank. Core material makeup and core seating pressure is also optimized for accuracy.

There's a lot more to it but that's the nickel tour.

Good shootin' -Al

Ever try a Ballistic tip?

dave

Some guys have issues getting rifles to shoot hunting bullets well, while others not so much. Some old hunting bullets that always seem to shoot acceptably well are Hornady interlocks, nosler partitions and ballistic tips, and Winchester power points, and sierra gamekings. Just to name a few. This is also running them .020” off the lands, not kissing the lands, which sometimes makes them unreliable for hunting. If you’ve ever had the lands grab the bullet, and spill powder out inside the mag well of the rifle, you know what I’m talking about. Finding an acceptable accurate load is fairly easy with the hunting bullets I listed. If you aren’t finding it, there may be a mechanical issue with your rifle.

As far as match bullets go, I have had great results hunting deer and pigs with the Lapua Scenar and Hornady ELD-M'S. The 130gr 140gr, and 147gr ELD-M's and the 139 Scenar are very accurate in my 260 and 6.5 Creedmoor. I have killed my share of game with them and never had a problem.

The 123gr Scenar shoots great in my 260 also, but I have never used that one hunting.

I have shot several WT Deer with Sierra MatchKings, but I was not happy with the results. They must have thinner jackets and/or softer lead. They do not hold together as well as the Scenars and ELDM'S.

I'm sure there are better bullets available for larger game. But IMO they work just fine for pigs and deer.

A few comments:

Yes, "match" bullets are much better balanced than typical "hunting" bullets--but these days a lot of hunting bullets are very well balanced.

Some supposed "hunting" bullets tend to come apart more frequently upon hitting game than some match bullets. This used to be more common a few years ago, before some hunting bullet companies didn't "field test" their new bullets on actual game, instead of softer "media." Some classic examples were the "new" version of the Winchester Silvertip they introduced in the early 1990s. It turned out to be basically a very good varmint bullet--which is the reason Winchester/Nosler brought out the Combined Technology Fail Safe.

Both the early versions of the Hornady SST and Nosler Ballistic Tip often didn't always penetrate reliably. Eventually both companies "adjusted" the bullets, and now they work well. Often the only change was using a harder-alloy lead core.

I have witnessed dozens of animals taken with Berger VLDs, including several I've taken, including several big New Zealand red stags as large as an average branch-antlered bull elk. So far they've all worked fine--but like some "hunting" bullets aren't what I'd choose for angling shots., especially involving heavy bone.

So John, I’d be interested in hearing if you were confined to only one type/make of big game bullet what would you pick?

Just published an article in the February edition of Rifle Loony News, about how the bullets Eileen and I have changed over the past decade. In general we're using far more monolithics, for various reasons--but the biggies are more reliable penetration with lighter bullets, resulting in lighter recoil AND less meat damage.

Oh, and because since they're very well balances, they're usually very accurate as well.

Match bullets have thin concentric jackets with no design features to initiate or control expansion. Any feature added to intiate and control expansion will introduce complexities to the bullet which will contribute to variations and which get magnified by spin and result in higher dispersion (group size)

Things like notching or shaping hollow points to ensure reliable expansion or thickening jackets, bonding, partitions to control expansion or retain weight, all introduce this variability

Some hunting match type bullets like berger hunting are left with a thinner jacket so they will reliably come apart/fragment. They may also come apart with high stresses from rifling and fast twist before they hit the target which is why berger actually thickened the jacket some on their target line. However the thickened jacket bullets may not perform as wanted in game and tumble vs fragment. The tipped match bullets have a polymer tip so while may expand, there is nothing to control expansion and may totally come apart before sufficient penetration. This is why Hornady and Sierra do not recommend them for hunting big game. However, bullet weight, game size, impact velocity, target density play a role and tipped match bullets may work fine, especially when velocity drops off. I look at them like reduced penetration versions of btips or sst from terminal performance standpoint.

Lou

Some of the evolution cycle of J4 jackets into .30 caliber hole punches.

The last I checked with Berger we still run match bullets for hunting because the jackets are thicker than the hunting version of their match bullets. FWIW. Did not like all the expansion the hunting ones gave.

FWIW, I use Scenars out of a 260 Rem and have had nothing but great results on deer/pronghorn from 70yds to 430yds.

What weight? The 139 or 123