Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Your 1st Experience with an X Bullet

Mine was pretty pathetic, I picked up a box on a whim at a gas station in Eastern Montana. I thought. well here's a new sexy looking bullet. I'll give these things a try. I can't even remember what brand the ammo was, but it was definitely a 130 grain Barnes X for my 270 Winchester now this is like 1984-1985.

I tried them out at the local range and I've never had a bullet scattered like these things, got shotgun patterns....3 shots into 3 inches then 3 shots into 4 inches & 3 shots into 5 inches.

Obviously I gave up and went back to my regular reloaded ammo & my M-77 went right back down to 1 MOA. Forgot about them till the TTSX came out & hunting buddy wanted them in his 270 Weatherby, his ULW Mark 5 shots them like a house on fire and kills everything with 1 shot, he calls the load his "death ray" running Reloder 23 for him, that's a great powder by the way very easy to get an accurate load with 23.


You?


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It was 1992 or ‘93. They were suggested to me by the guy that built my AI. He had done a bunch of bullet testing with Randy Brooks of Barnes.

I developed a load, and had an opportunity to use it the following fall on an elk rapidly departing the area @ about 80 yards. The young bull only offered an @$$ shot, which I took. The bullet entered just left of the “target spot”, shattered the pelves, continued on through the diaphragm, through the left lung, exited in the left foreleg “pit”, reentered the upper leg missing the leg bone, and stopped beneath the hide on opposite side. The path was end to end……giving a total of 3 hide penetrations, elk ham (large muscle) and pelvis, through the intestines (wet grass and all), continuing through the lung, and the large upper leg muscle.

The bullet lost one petal, retaining 95% of it’s original weight. The bullet path was essentially a straight line through the elk.This was the bullet performance that I was wanting……been using Barnes bullets ever since. As they improved their technology, I’d followed along! No disappointments thus far!

The original X Bullets were very sensitive to a bore of less than perfect condition and could not be shot behind typical cup and core bullets without thoroughly cleaning the bore of all fouling. I had a match grade barrel on my rifle, which I believe contributed to good groups and minimal (near zero) fouling!

This past summer, I worked up a load with 270 grain LRX’s in my AI. Stopped just a few fps short of 3100 mv, with 3 shot groups running around 1/2” ….with a couple just under 1/2”! memtb

I can't recall if it was in the latter part of the 80s or maybe early 90s, but I tried them in a custom XP in .250 Savage. As long as I paid attention to copper fouling in the bore, they shot great and provided nice expansion in both test medium and game.

When my original supply ran out, I bought more -- but the results were not the same. They failed to expand on game and, other than the rifling, were almost pristine when taken out of test medium, much unlike the earlier batch. I contacted Barnes, and they asked me to send in the rest of the bullets and to pull all that I had loaded (well over 100). The acknowledged a metallurgy issue with certain lots and told me they'd send bullets to replace these. After checking with them three or four times over the next year or so, I quit calling -- and to this day -- several decades later -- they never sent those replacements LOL.

Much has improved since then.

I use generally use cartridges of moderate capacities, so Barnes bullets aren't often the best choice. But the 6.5mm 115 grain and the .30 cal 110 and 120 grain in the Tac-TX line are the exceptions, and I've used those with incredible results. The 95 grain TTSX designed for the SPC is also a winner for lower-velocity rounds.

I wish they'd offer a 7mm 120 grainer with similar expansion capabilities for the likes of the 7-30 Waters, etc.

I loaded 180's in my 30-06 and proceeded to kill stuff. Got a 300RUM in the mid 90's and killed more stuff. Got a 375H&H in the early 2000's and ditto. Switched to TSX then TTSX as they became available. When I saw folks posting about problems on the internet I was amazed.

Your memory is a little faulty, but then so are the memories of some other veterans of the Campfire. The Barnes X was introduced in 1989, which is when I first tried some. (You can look the year up in several places, including the Barnes website.)

Mine were some 180-grain .30s sent to me by Dave Petzal, the managing editor of Field & Stream, which I was working for back then, among other writing jobs. I tried them in the first Ultra Light Arms rifle I also got to test, a Model 28 .300 Winchester Magnum, and while most bullets grouped well under an inch in that ULA, the Barnes Xs weren't nearly as consistent. (In fact that rifle put nine rounds--three 3-shot groups with different bullet weights and makes--into .9 inch at 100 yards, something that's pretty common with ULA/NULAs.)

PMC Eldorado factory 270 Weatherby mag. 130 gr X Copper fouled my barrel by 12 shots so bad the target looked like a 15 yard buckshot pattern. Next 85 gr blue coated xlc in 240 Weatherby mag same chit at that pt I would have done best to beat that Brooks turd into the ground. Fug 'em. One of these days I reckon I'll get stupid and try the ttsx. Mb

I can’t suggest that it’s as important as it appeared to be at one time…..but, try cleaning the bore to “squeaky clean” with a good cooper solvent prior to trying the Barnes. Or for that matter……any mono!

I really think that you’ll be pleased with the new ones! memtb

No personnal experience with the early versions, but a good friend of mine Ed Stevenson guided Randy on ,which might have been one of the first usage of them in 375, as I recall. Ed put Randy on a good size brown bear in Gravina Bay, Alaska. They were in an inflatable just off shore , the bear was cruising the beach. Randy hammered the bear good but he didn’t go down so Randy hammered him again , and again and again , the bear was well hit but just didn’t want to expire, after finally figuring out where his tormentation was coming from I guess he (the bear) came in the water after them, but thankfully expired. I guess when the smoke cleared, 8 or 10 rounds later, Ed looked at Randy and said something to the affect back to the drawing board huh Randy. Guess the bullets were just to hard and didn’t expand well. Next time Randy and Connie got together with Ed they had it pretty much solved. The shooting industry owes Randy and Connie a debt of gratitude.

I had the opportunity to spend some time with Randy and Connie at the shop, saw their bears “up close and personal”. Some beautiful bears! memtb

Yep, they kept after it and worked out the problems.

And since then several other companies have built "monolithic" bullets (or at least semi-monos) on the basic principles learned from the development of X-Bullets....

Way back in the day,when I first started collecting Sako Rifles, I bought a rifle chambered for the 338-378 KT.





IIRC it was a Sako l61R.



It came with 50 loaded rounds of the Barnes 338 XLC bullets.

ya!

GWB

No experience with the XLCs, but I used 210 gr XBT bullets in my .338 Win mag on a cow elk hunt in Colorado in 1996. They shot 1 inch at 100 yards, and I killed my first elk at about 75 yards with a shot through the shoulders and heart. The heavy shoulder bones were not hit, and I didn't know that I had an exit wound until a thin drop of blood began to ooze from the far shoulder during field dressing. I could barely poke my finger into the exit wound. There was no blood trail, but she went head over heels after about a 50 yard dash. She was about 2 miles and several hundred feet lower elevation from the truck. This Missouri boy earned his first elk on the pack out on that day.

1992 Zambia.

9.3 250X ahead of H414

Cape Buffalo dropped dead within 4 steps. Never looked back.

Sometime in the ‘90’s, original Xbullet in my accurate 77 tanger 7mmRM. Extremely poor accuracy. Struggled trying to get them to shoot well. Did kill some deer with them but always close shots, probably the longest was about 100 yards. Did like terminal performance, straight through from any angle, no explosive meat damage. Gave up on them for accuracy though. Next got some .257 100 grain TSX for my .25-06 AI. They were accurate enough. Killed deer near and far and one caribou at about 400 yards.

Got some 130 .308 original X bullets I couldn’t get to shoot in anything.

Doesn't surprise me, those years of hunting mulies & pronghorn around Glasgow are kind of a blur. Did remember it was PMC brand ammo, still have the leftover 11 rounds here somewhere.

5-6 MOA. I've only once had them shoot under about 2 to 2-1/2 MOA. That was with an old stainless / boat-paddle Ruger 77 Mk II in .338 win mag and the bullet was the original gummy 210 grain X .. boat tail I think. It fouled like a mother f**ker. At first I thought I had to clean it every shot, turned out all I had to do was smack the stock against something hard between shots .. in other words, it wasn't cleaning the bore, it was just thumping it hard enough to unstick the bond between barrel and stock .. that sumbitch would shoot in the .3s for 3 shots. I bought a new stock for it which helped a ton but eventually I screwed up by cleaning too aggressively. I didn't know squat about Sweets 7.62 back then. I kept cleaning as long as goop kept coming out using Shooter's Choice to neutralize every 10 minutes. I didn't notice the goop turned from blue to black and before long the rifling had very rounded edges. Shoot.

That was back .. 1995-1998, something like that. I've never gotten acceptable accuracy out of Barnes bullets since. Not in nearly 100 rifles. I'll stick with partitions thank ye ver' much.

Not a gun writer, but my experience was near the same. Shilen DGA, 338WM, would shoot nice little clover leafs with the Barnes originals, Nosler Partitions, It REALLY loved the Barnes 300gr RN originals.... First try with the Barnes X, it wouldn't keep them all on a 9" plate.... worked with about a half a box, gave up, never went back.....

The general, original theory about why the original X-Bullets didn't always group well was that since rifle bores vary slightly in diameter the X's had to match the bore-size well. Otherwise they'd have to be "squeezed down" too much--or be too "loose" to group well.

Which is why the grooved shank of TSX's eventually solved the problem, since it allowed the bullets to work well in bores of slightly varying dimensions.

Which is why other monolithic bullets generally have circumferential grooves--even if only one.

I shot a cow elk in Colorado during the early 90's.

Used a 140gr X out of my 270. Was a struggle getting them to shoot. Finally found a load and went hunting.

Elk was moving through the trees at about 60 yards. Took a shot and there was no reaction from the elk. Herd continued downslope and when following the tracks in the fresh snow found zero blood until the elk was spotted all piled up. Right through the ribs.

Was a little unnerving, but all is well that ends well. I attributed it to elk being elk, but years later wondered if I did not get expected expansion. No was of knowing now, as I do not remember the butchering process as it was getting late in the day and we a very long way back to camp.

Finished the remaining shells and swore off X bullets. Tried XLC's and swore them off. Then one of the Superior ammunition guys talked me into trying TSX's at the range one day. Have not looked back.

I bought some for my 270,7mm Mauser and my 35 Whelen.

Read what was printed at the time and had no problem getting them to group.

I knew that many folks had problems with the original X Bullets ……but damn, you guys are “snake bit”!

I had a friend that tried the original X in his new Remington 700 SS in 25-06. He had similar results as you guys. I talked him into hand lapping his bore. It cut the groups in half, but were still pretty bad. Although in his only opportunity to elk hunt in Wyoming, he went out and killed the largest bodied bull elk that I’ve ever seen. He shot it on the run, broadside…..the elk continued for about 50 or 60 yards and pilled-up!

I also hand lapped the bore on my wife’s SS Model 70, it helped it’s groups a bit also.

Since the advent of the grooved X Bullets, getting 1” or better groups hasn’t been an issue! memtb

On my first trip to Newfoundland in Oct. of 2000. I loaded 225 X bullets with RL19 and Fed. 215s in my A-bolt .338 WM. Out of that rifle it averaged 1.5-2 inch groups.

Took a moose at 90 yards with a shot on the point of the shoulder that dropped it. Two days later I took a caribou at 160 yards. Bullet impacted the left rib cage and exited the neck in front of the shoulder. Folded up and dropped right there.

i used them in '92 or '93 on the Rem m7 in 243 Win with a 85gr X bullet. accuracy wasn't good, 2 1/2"+/- up at 100 yards (3 shots, bench). i manage to find a group that was 1 1/2" at 100 yards (3 shots/bench). my regular load was a 100gr Hornady RN with IMR4831 and it was under a inch at 100 yards (5 shots/bench).

i took the 243 out deer hunting and i shot a doe around 30ish yards. she ran thru the mountain laurel and spruce trees and i had to get on all fours to track her. luckily there was about 3" of snow. i found drop or two of bright red blood every 50ish yards. 300ish yards later, i found her dead. the X bullet did go thru her, but it never expanded. the doe had a pencil type wound all the thru.

the Barnes X bullet did not impress me. the X bullet was the first and last premium bullets. i'll pay for cup-n-core bullets for deer, i never shot a premium bullet again. i've seen TTSX expand on deer, but i can do that using cast bullets that i make.

My very first experience with Barnes bullets was (IIRC) with the 300 gr X in .416 cal out of my Ruger #1 in .416 Rigby, back in the mid 90's. I bought them because they were the lightest .416" bullet I could easily find at the time. Looking at ballistic tables and loading data, I found a couple of loads using that bullet that basically duplicated the trajectory of one of my favorite 7mm Rem Mag loads, at around 2880 to 2900 fps, so I worked up to that load. I had a Leupold Vari-X III 1.75 - 6X scope on the rifle. I wanted to shoot it out to 400, maybe 600 yds, just for grins, so my son and I went to our farm, where I had a 600 yd shooting range.

Arriving at our range, I started to get my stuff out of the truck, while my son (about 8 yrs old) got out with his binoculars and started looking downrange. Suddenly, with a hushed but excited voice he says "Daddy! There's that big wild dog you've been after!" Sure enough, right past the 400yd target stand was this huge, male, long-haired, black & tan, feral dog that we'd been having trouble with. It had killed and partially eaten some of our neighbor's calves, had stalked one of my sister-in-laws, had attacked or killed one of their dogs plus killed some neighbor's dogs, and had tried to attack one of my nieces, but my brother managed to protect her. The dog weighed around 175 lbs and looked like a monstrous cross between a St. Bernard and a Rottweiler.

I quickly got ready to shoot and aimed at the dog. Dog was standing there looking at us. He sensed danger, whirled around before I could get a round off, and started running straight downrange away from us. The rifle was sighted about 2 1/2" high at 100 yds. I knew where I would hold if I was shooting my 7 mag, hoped that this load really would duplicate its trajectory, put a little daylight over the dog's head, and squeezed off the round.

That was the first time I'd fired that rifle without a bag of shot between my shoulder and the butt of the rifle. The recoil was rather....uh....robust!....and sharp! My son yelled "WOW Daddy!! It did an endo!" I quickly reloaded and watched it to make sure it was dead.

The dog wasn't just merely dead, but really quite sincerely dead.... His body was pointed back up-range, so he really had done an endo. There was blood, fur, and canine clockwork splattered for 20 to 25 feet all over the grass and weeds downrange of the dog. The entrance hole was about an inch below his anus and about a half inch left of center. The exit hole was high, about in the centerline of his chest and was ripped up into the base of his neck. I could have easily shoved my fist up into it. I had had my doubts that the X would expand, but I was wrong. That 300 gr X bullet had obviously expanded very well traveling lengthwise through over three feet of dog.

My first experience with Barnes bullets on big game was in '08 or '09 with a pronghorn in Wyoming using the 100gr .257" TSX out of my Ruger #1 .25-06 loaded to around 3300 fps. I shot the speed goat from about 350 yds. It was almost perfectly broadside to me and I hit him just behind the shoulder (should have drilled the shoulders). It took off running and ran into a grove of cottonwoods and ran three or four laps in there before running out and falling over. Straightened out, that run would have been about a half mile. Bullet drilled both lungs, went right above the heart - pencil sized exit wound. I was not impressed.

A few weeks later, opening day of Missouri whitetail season, I was hunting with my Ruger 77 RL tanger in .250-3000 with some of that same batch of 100gr TSX's, loaded to about 2750 fps. I was urinating in some fresh scrapes as I walked to my stand. I was standing there urinating in the third scrape (the last one before my stand), when suddenly I heard a buck grunting loudly and it was charging me, head down to gore me with its antlers! I barely had time to get my rifle off my shoulder and yelling like crazy and trying to jump to my right, I fired from the hip when it was literally less than two yards, maybe one yard, from me. It reared up and fell on its back, jumped up and ran about 40 yds into a bunch of thick brush and died. It took me a bit to regain my composure and process what just happened. I was shaking like a dog pooping peach pits. The buck was a 140's class 10 pt., weighing about 280 lbs. The TSX had hit him square in the chest, and there was about a 4" diameter patch of hair missing around the entrance wound. The TSX did not exit, but I was unable to find it when I dressed the deer. I really wanted that bullet because I believe it saved my life.

My dad’s friend needed some “heavy” loads for his .270wby to go on a short notice Nilgai hunt in TX but couldn’t find any ammo locally except 130gr cup/cores. I had some 120gr original X bullets, loaded them up, and gave them to him. We never told him they were “only” 120gr, just that they were solid copper. He loved them and they worked great. This was around 1993.

Have some, but have not loaded them. About 25 years back I loaded some for a neighbor to use in his .300 W'by. He was disappointed in their precision. Seems he always had a flyer out of a group that was about 3/4 MOA. One ragged hole with an outlier 1/4" outside the hole. I didn't know what to say......other than it was good shootin' for a Bee, or any gun for that matter.

He really was frustrated. I gave him the dies and bullets, told him to buy a press and load his own.

1992 was first time I used the X bullets, took them on a deer and antelope hunt loaded in my 300 Win mag. It shot them pretty well, typically giving 1” or slightly bigger 3 shot groups. Shot both animals and they seemed to work well, internal damage was pretty extensive.

'89 or '90 at very latest. Friend wanted to try X bullets. Loaded the 125gr .308" to 3470 fps (.300 Win, Howa). Very accurate, no increase in fouling. Lost first whitetail tried, shot through the neck. Don't think he tried it again.

OTOH, he used the 175gr and 225gr .338" X bullets as recently as about 5 years ago. Took them to Newfoundland for moose, plus two or three trips to Africa for plains game. No complaints. I have a couple expanded ones that came out of kudu. Accurate and no increase in fouling (Ruger tang).

Another friend prefers original 235gr .375" X bullets to the TSX. Dunno why.

My first experience was in 1991 with a 721 300 H&H on a spike elk. I was using the early version 165 grain. The shot was facing me at a slight angle right at 200 yards. The bullet entered just inside the left shoulder and ranged the length of its body, coming to rest in the right hip. Clipped some lung along the way.

The elk went down but got right back up. Because the ranch was split between Oregon and Washington and within a short distance the spike would be headed down hill into Oregon, I opted for the only shot I had. A Texas heart shot. The bullet made it the full length of the elk. I recovered it inside the left shoulder. The elk went down and got back up. Standing spraddle legged and broadside I put one through the chest. I didn’t recover that one but it put him down for the count.

Both bullets I recovered had shed all four of their petals. I recovered two of the petals during the cut and wrap. I couldn’t complain about the performance.

The following year I took a mule deer with the same bullet. Similar bow to stern shot. He dropped at the shot. No bullet recovery but ample damage along the bullet path.

I didn’t see any real advantage over the partitions I was using and went back to them. I did use a 300 grain TSX in my 400 Whelen to take one caribou. Good expansion and lots of blood. Good size exit.

My wife’s BSA 308 has always like the 150 grain TSX and she used one to take a cow moose. 30 yards quartered away. 30” of penetration and an exit. Death was within seconds.

I have 80 grain TTSXs loaded in both my 6mmx222and my 25x222 in the hopes of trying one on a deer.

Enjoying the performance reviews on the earlier X bullets, seems like a lot of your results mirrors mine. The latest version like the TTSX apparently is much improved.

Thinking of working up a black bear load for my Savage M-99 carbine in .308 Winchester, might investigate the 130 grain TTSX.


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Should one have to hand lap barrel to get bullets to shoot? That is crazy IMO

The TSX and TTSX are totally different. Example of a bullet manufacturer working until they got it right.

"X" bullet, XLC, TSX , TTSX

My first shot at game with the X was in March, 1992, on a coyote at about 10ft, facing away, using the 45gr X in my 22Hornet. The Texas Heart Shot exited behind the left shoulder, and I don't think the coyote even twitched.

That fall, I used the 140gr X in my 270 (a Harrington & Richardson Ultra Rifle), on a mature cow elk at about 175yds/ Shot was slightly quartering towards me, bullet went in the left shoulder and exited the right rear leg, pulling a plug of fat out with it. She went about 15-20yds downhill and did a somersault.

As I walked up to her, and I see the white stuff hanging out of her right hip area, my first thought was she is diseased, but then I realized it was the exit.

I had been using Partitions from my very first big game hunt in 1970, with no complaints, but then read a magazine article in Jan/Feb 1992 about loading the 223, and he used the 22cal X bullet shot out of a T-C Contender at about 2,600fps. He said the 45gr X expanded a 10lb gel block so violently, that it knocked another 10lb gel block off the table. The author said no other bullet, even out of a rifle at full throttle, did that.

So, I tried that bullet in my Hornet for coyotes, and I had noticeably fewer runners and floppers with the X than any other bullet I had tried.

The author claimed that Randy had been going to Australia to shoot big animals, like camels, with his prototype copper bullets, and the Australians that guided him were so impressed with the performance that they bought the entire first years production of the 22cal, 45gr X for the kangaroo shooters. The author said he was the first person in the US to get ahold of the 22cal 45gr X. I wish I could remember the authors name, but I think the article was in Precision Shooter/Handloader.

Some factory barrels are not as good as you would hope for. My friends 25-06 would load up with cooper in just a few rounds. Hand Lapping improved it considerably. My rifle had a SS match grade Douglas Supreme…..fouling was never an issue, even with the original X Bullet which was notorious for fouling!

I see it as no different than some people, that go to pretty extreme lengths when working with their firearms/hand loading, I don’t think that Hand Lapping is anymore extreme. In fact, I Hand Lap every new firearm I get, the exception being a match/target grade barrel. I see it as a few minutes well spent! I guess that it’s, to each their own!

FWIW, We too have followed Barnes through their bullet evolutions. Just this past summer worked up a darn good load using 270 gr. LRX’s for my .375 AI. 1/2” +/- 3 shot groups @ 100 yrds @ just under 3100 mv was pretty pleasing performance. memtb

Inadvertently omitted the LRX's.

I used the 155gr out of my 1:8 twist 270 last fall with much success. Also have a LRX 129gr load I am tweaking in a standard 1:10 twist 270.

First critter with the 250 gr X via 9.3x62 in 2002.

Shot a fair amount of the originals when they first came out in .264 Win, 7x61 S&H and 8mm Rem Mag hoping for decent accuracy but never found it. Thinking back, the only deer I've killed with X's were in .22s, 45gr in .221 Fireball and 53gr in .225 Win.

PMC “Eldorados” in my custom 98 30-06. 1 1/2 moa @ 200 yards. Bought 160 (8 boxes) of them in 92 or 93. That’s all I shoot in that rifle. First kill was a Texas heart shot whitetail @ about 50 yards. Bullet was in his throat. Still have it. Left the muzzle weighing 165 grains ,and still does. Buck ran about ten feet.
I have 41 rounds left of the original 160.

I used the 7mm 100 gr X when they first came out. It was in my only rifle, a 284 Win. Got 3575 fps with that bullet. It flattened the trajectory before we had rangefinders.

I shot a few coues wt with the bullet. It tended to anchor them requiring a closeup finishing shot.

One time a javelina was facing me from a cave at 100 yds or so. The shot went through the edge of the face through the entire body or so I thought. When I was grinding the meat of the hind leg the grinder suddenly stalled. I discovered the bullet perfectly mushroomed.

Barnes discontinued the 100 gr bullet after a few years of production.

The “X” bullet was cutting edge technology when I went to Alaska on a caribou hunt in 1990. I have always shot handloads, so I got some “X” bullets from a friend for my 30-06. Loaded with IMR 4350, and plenty accurate, it took old “meat in the pot” to Alaska.

After seeing a small number of bulls on the tundra, I put a sneak on them and shot at a decent bull. It took off running and crested a hill that was almost out of range, stopped and looked back in my direction. Holding high over the back, I took another shot and he dropped right there.

When I got to him I could see my “X” bullet had broken his back. We had to bone the caribou out to get him back to camp, and that is when I found the first shot had penciled through his neck, barely leaving a hole. I then decided to stick with Hornady 165 grain spire points, as they had never let me down and after that, never did.

What Barnes “X” bullets are now is inconsequential, I find it unnecessary to shoot anything in the 30-06 but 165 grain Hornady spire points and 150 grain Remington core-lokt bullets in my Garand or 1903-A3

I didn't get on the Barnes band wagon until the TSX came out because I'd read about the pressure and copper fouling with the early X bullets. I thought that my deer deserved to be shot with a premium bullet, but I had my own reservations about the all copper and small diameter cavity up front. A 140 TSX from my 7mm-08 broke the neck on the first deer and I noted the smaller exit, but chalked it up to how narrow a deer's neck is. Then the next year I shot another deer with the TSX broadside and it ran the usual 40 yards. That should have told me something with the quarter size hole through both lungs instead of the usual lung mush I got from conventional Core-Lokts or Interlocks. A nice tidy carcass with minimal blood shot tissue. The next year a very nice 10 point gave me a broadside shot, but it was in high brush, so I held high to avoid brush deflection. He took off too and dropped exactly five drops of blood where he'd stopped, then ran off and left absolutely no blood trail to follow. First deer that I ever couldn't find after two days of looking. Am I trying another Barnes anything? Nope, not after DRT results from BT's ever since. I want a deer bullet that does lots of damage with a less than perfect shot so I can recover that animal. I'm getting too old for playing hide and seek to find the whitetail I've shot.

My first experiences were my last. I picked up some 225 gr. X bullets for my .338 and some 140 X bullets for my 270. While the 338 bullets had a nice big HP they gave no expansion on an elk I shot at around 450 yards right through the ribs. That elk actually traveled uphill over the second ridge on a mountain just south of La Barge creek. One of the longest packing out jobs I ever had to endure. Crossing La Barge creek in the middle of a blizzard was not a pleasurable experience. The 140's I loaded in my 270 shot reasonably well and though they fouled I found if I cleaned the barrel every 3-5 shots it didn't get out of hand. Pushed to just under 2900 fps. Wow worst bullet I ever used on deer or feral hogs. Every one ran far with little blood leaking. Would have lost most of them if I didn't have a tracking dog and did lose on that made it onto property I didn't have the right to access. These experiences caused me to hold a grudge against Barnes for many years.

I have seen this theory advanced as the reason behind the generally dismal, hit or miss accuracy of the original X bullets. I have also seen vague references to "the metallurgy" not being right or consistent with the fault directed at the copper supplier. I think either or both might be contributing factors. I have long suspected, however, that the primary reason for the poor accuracy so many of us have experienced with original X bullets is due to manufacturing/production practices that are not conducive to producing adequate geometric precision. I am almost, not quite, certain that I can visually detect a lack of concentricity between the shank and the ogive on some original X bullets. Some day I may dig out a few (I think I still have some) and do the actual work involved to say yes or no to this idea. Some of the things that have crossed what's left of my mind with regard to this:

I don't know if Barnes was originally buying copper stock in bars or coils. Assuming bars, the first problem I would look for is the degree of roundness of the bar stock. (Starting with coiled stock carries its own set of challenges.) Assuming it was rolled to size by the supplier, it could well be out of round. Rolled stock, like parts that are centerless ground, are not round in cross section, they are three sided. The best you can do is reduce the out of roundness to what's acceptable for the purpose. (Measuring them with a flat anvil micrometer will not reveal this, you'll get the same reading at any point. That's what V anvil mics are for, to determine the degree of out-of-roundness in a rolled or centerless ground part.) Too far out of round introduces difficulties in work holding, especially of whoever is involved in the process engineering/machine setup isn't aware of this or doesn't know how to compensate for it. Looking at the shanks of the original X bullets, the surface looks to me like it's rolled to size, not machined. Anyone with a modicum of machining know-how knows that the easiest, most certain way to assure concentricity between two diameters is to machine both in the same hold. Another holding issue, if they were buying finished, bullet-diameter stock, would be what were they holding it with for machining it? Generally speaking, you can get something like .257 stock in a 1/4" collet, or .308 stock in a 5/16" collet. You could probably force .284 stock into a true 7mm collet, but in terms of high-precision work, a lot can go wrong in any of those instances.

There could be other factors as well, and all this is idle speculation on my part. Barnes is apparently making good products now and, if circumstances were such that I felt compelled to shoot a mono, I'd give them another shot. As it is, cup and core bullets fill all my needs and I don't have the interest in trying the "latest and greatest" these days. There's no getting around the point, however, that they did put an underdeveloped product on the market and left it to the consumers buying that product to do the beta testing.

Bullet concentricity never received much scrutiny from the gun trade and none from the writers until recent years as occasional mentions.

The penny dropped for me when people using old rifles such as the pre 64 started resporting best ever groups.

Becase these older rifles still largely had their original barrels, it became somewhat axiomatic that bullet concentricity was the improvement factor influencing this change.

This was starting to become clearer in the years before the Barnes X, where CnC bullets were still the most common usage and there was a sliver of design changes becoming points if marketing focus that would come to rely upon concentricity to work properly.

Could you imagine the complexity of a Winchester Failsafe bullet (outer jacket, inner lead core, steel shaft insert into rear core, capped off with a base plug, assuming steel again to square up that base but being an insert that still allowed for obturation) shooting accurately without having focused on basic reaearch and improvements before hand?

No, bullet manufacturers have always accepted the challenge but bench shooting of hunting rifles post war due to the proliferation of scope usage tended to swing riflemen towards whatever their rifles preferred.

This gave rise to the higher quality bullets we have today, the best in a lifetime.

I started with the X bullets in the early 90s and once I learned they can be a PITA to find seating depth for a given rifle I killed deer with them just fine and could solve rifles to <1 inch groups. When Barnes produces the XLCs they were a little less touchy about seating depth. The TSXs got easier when they came out. I nor any of the people who I loaded them for ever had any expansion problems, The TTSXs were even better.

I have seen a couple rifles that fouled miserably with Barnes bullets. Those, were solved with Dyna Bore Coat. The only real peculiarity I have seen that is restricted to Barnes bullets is that on one rage where the backstop consisted of new growth aspen is that after going through targets and backing a surprising number of bullets wound up butt first stuck in trees. Enough that my conclusion is that somehow the bullets, all of which were only partially opened, tumbled and that the drag of the partially opened bullet caused then to continue to fly butt first.

I have one rifle, a 25-06, that I have been unable to solve at the upper end of it's velocity. It is a 26 inch barreled Remington Sendero. At 3225 FPS it will shoot accurately. Above that, no matter what I have tried for powder, 2-3 inch groups is what it produces with 100 grain TSX/TTSXs above 3225 FPS. I have tried to find another seating depth it likes at higher velocity. I have tried every reasonable powder. Cup and core bullets shoot fine at expected velocities.

The mystery continues. This thread is damn interesting.

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I first started using X bullets in the early '90s, the 100 grain in a B78 .25-06. I consistently got 3/4" or slightly better 5 shot groups, and performance on deer and antelope was great. I only recovered one bullet, it weighed 99.8 grains after going from just behind and below the right kidney to the base of the skull, including shattering 6" of spine.

I then used the 150 grain in a Browning 1885 7mmMag. Accuracy ~1"/5shots, again, no problems with performance. Only recovery was from an antelope shot stem to stern; the bullet knicke the pelvis and turned base first. The base actually punched through the hide but the expanded petals caught it. Weight 149.7 grains.

I then tried them in a M700 8mmMag, both the 200 and 220 grain bullets. Accuracy was abysmal, around 6". I shot 2 elk with that rifle, with 200 gr. Hot Core bullets, but at close range they expanded too violently. It wasn't until the TSX came out that I used it again, they have been a great improvement.

My first X bullet use was in 97. I heard about dropping down in weight so I used the 30 cal 165 X in my 300 winnie. I loaded them with the max listed in Barnes #1. IIRC, it was 76 gr of RL19. That was a warm load and grouped OK too. I shot an 8 pt WI whitetail buck at 25 yds. The shot was broadside and the buck was trotting . My shot went through the top of the heart and exited. Heart was shredded and the buck travelled 25 yds. He ran into a dead tree and that was it.
After this, I used the 120 Xs in my 264 to take maybe 10 or 12 whitetail with no issues. Being a loony, I decided to experiment with Noslers next. I bought some TTSXs to try next

My .270 during the X bullet experiment was wearing its factory 22" light conture barrel, that 1981 Ruger product (Douglas barrel?) M-77 was mercurial loving some projectiles hating others, & would merely tolerate the rest. The X was definitely in the hate it category.

I ran the Nosler Ballistic tips during mule, whitetail deer and pronghorn hunts, the 130 grain @ 3000 fps, now they had thier own issues in the mid 80's but they were accurate and fast in my rifle.

I've shot that factory barrel out and replaced it with a Benchmark 5R stainless 25" tube. I'm seriously considering running the Barnes 130 TTSX for all my hunting now that I'm close to retirement. This would include a shot at getting a Montana bull elk in Fall 2025. This based on the results my buddy got using the same TTSX in his 270 Weatherby I reloaded for him.


He likes to say "they create an unsurvivable event"

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Started shooting the Barnes 165X in 1989 out of my 1917 Enfield sporter. I "had" to keep the bore spotless or it fouled bad. That was in OK. I din't use the Barnes again until '95. I used the 250X in a 35 WAI, shot like a Match bullet BUT, I had broken in that barrel with over 100rds of fireforming loads, with cleaning every 20 rds. It was a slick bore! I shot a wad of PG in South Africa in '96. In '97, I loaded the 90x in my 240Wby. Killed a big coyote at tdad over 300yds. Gave the rifle/ammo to my Pastor in Tx and he shot an Axis doe and a big Axis Buck. I also gave him earlier a 7mm RM shooting the 120x like a Match load! He killed an nice Blackbuck around 125, DRT. He later shot "at least" 400yds an uphill Spanish Goat/Ibex mix. Centerpunched. We shot the newer designed 180 XBTs in 300WMs and the 210 XBT in a 340Wby. Deadly. Then I killed a cow elk with a 185 XLC in a 338WM, very slick coating. I killed a 80pd shoat with a 50gr XLC/221 Fireball CZ 527. Made a 50cal hole all the way through shoulders. Used the 200X (with the "Secant Ogive") in my 35 WAI on another PG trip, same deadly results. Then the 100gr TSX/257 Wby was wonderful on Exotics in Texas. But...but...that TTSX is about as perfect as "I" could ever use on Game. Easy to get to shoot, work every time, and the LRX is also wonderful. I'm open to trying Hammers as they have always shot like Match bullets in everything I ever tried. So yeah, if it absolutely has to be killed, broken down, right there, Barnes on Bone is the Recipe!

I didn't use a Barnes X until 1998 - a 165 gr. on a mule deer buck from a 308 Win at under 50 yards. It worked good enough - a bullet through the lungs, and the buck ran 50 yards and piled up. Only reason I used it on the deer was because it's what I had loaded for elk. I tend to think a more frangible bullet would have put that deer down faster.

Aside, I got the Barnes No.1 Handloading Manual in 1992. Still have it. If you want a good laugh, it's hard to beat the Barnes No. 1 manual. Talk about "going where angels fear to tread" loads!

I used that same Manual for my 35 WAI Uncle Brad. It seems, according to QuickLoads, the "Book Max" 250X and 200X loads I used for over 20yrs turned out be around 72-74K! Wow, lol. But man, were they killers!