Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Unusual Accuracy

A particular rifle firing a particular load may indeed be a sub-moa or moa rifle, but the shooter may NOT be when he/she goes hunting or even to the range when he/she are not at their best! I've had that experience more than a few times, especially as I get older. What I find a bit more interesting is shooting a known accurate load by a single shot per week for three weeks or more on the same target! That may reveal more about the shooter than the rifle and load! I've done it with a favorite .300 Win Mag, .45-70s and .458s. That tells me more about field performance than three shots on a given day benchrest style.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

I once had a Remington pump Model 14 in .25 Remington that would simply print cloverleaves at a hundred yards with the Hornady 120 grain RN bullets. Not just once but nearly always after I put a Lyman receiver sight on it. I actually used it on prairie dogs. I got rid of it in an ill-advised downsizing and have regretted it since.

I used to shoot and sight in at a gravel pit west of town. One day I was shooting and a guy was there to sight in his 94 30-30. I watched him. He placed a target at 100 yards. Loaded the rifle and stood and shot offhand and racked the lever as fast as someone could. He shot till it was empty. Went and got his target, proclaimed he was ready to hunt. Group was the.size of a baseball. I was impressed. No rest, offhand, shooting as fast as he could chamber a new round. If he saw a deer it died.

Mule Deer:


A subject that gets about 5 minutes of time in our Hunter Education classes and the kids get it.

I have a Remingtion 700 Classic in .35 Whelen that has consistently been 1 inch or less for multiple 3-5 shot groups since I have owned it. When it doesn't, it usually means I am having a bad day at the bench.

Most encouraging news. There is yet hope.

T/C Compass Utility in 308 Win topped with an old Nikon 4X scope. The rifle was bought from Academy on one of their sales and ran me less than $250 including tax. These are all 100 yards groups.




I don't know what more you can ask out of an inexpensive rifle that was bought to be a truck gun.

Among mine, an Oregon Kimber Ultra Varmint in 223.

I'd be okay with that from a M94 32WS.. Even 2X the group, it is still a buck gitter!

i used to own a Savage m340 in 222 Remington. it went somewhere around 3/8 - 1/2" group at 100 yards (5 shots/bench) with 50gr Hornady SP and a max charge of H322. i bought it second hand (or third or fourth) and i put on 6x Swift. i shot the crap out of it, 5000 - 6000 rounds, until i burned out the barrel. my gunsmith said he would put on a brand new Douglas barrel in 222, but i said no and sold it for a Remington m700. stupid!!! that is one rifle that i never should have sold. groundhogs and foxes stopped shaking the moment i sold her. stupid, stupid stupid!!!!!

back in the early '90s i bought a ss Ruger SRH (7.5" barrel) in 44 Mag. 200gr and 240gr Hornady XTP with a warm charge of Win296 really would kill deer. the 200gr and 240gr XTP would go around 1 1/4 - 1 3/4" at 100 yards (5 shots/bench). once, and only once, the 200gr XTP would go around 3/4" group at 100 yards (5 shots/bench). all shots were factory sights, i had a Aimpoint red dot, but i quickly got rid of it. the furthest shot was around 120 yards+/- on a big doe. i had to sell it and many more for my divorce lawyer. i bought another one about 15+/- years ago, but it wasn't as accurate as before. 240gr XTP with Win296 would go around 2 1/2" +. since my stroke, i sold it and bought a Ruger SBH (4 5/8" barrel) in 44 mag. i use it in a 44 special with 250gr penta hp/255gr Kieth-type SWC and a Skeeter load of Unique and 44 Mag with 280gr WFN and Unique/2400. i can go with either of these bullets, 2 - 3" group at 50 yards (5 shots/bench or 3 legged Bog Pod). i've killed a number of deer with it, esp the 44 Special.

JC189:

I use a similar illustration to get the point across.

Winchester 94 Wrangler II with Weaver 1-3x. Shoots the old Canadian Imperial load (1600 fps) into sub inch 100 yard groups. No reason this tiny lever gun in the antiquated cartridge should shoot that well.





BSA Enfield Sporter .303 British with Weaver 4x shoots Woodleigh 215gr into groups the size of a penny





Ruger 77 .450 Bushmaster with factory Hornady shoots groups like this

Had 2 7mm Mauser Brazilian barrels installed. 1 on a Steyr 1912 and one on a Yugo 24/47.
Both are 1" guns with a mild load.

A Black Nitride treated, pre-WW II Savage Model 219 in .30-30 at 100 yards with its favorite cast bullet load:

I've been shooting competitively, off and on for 55 years. I've shot in various disciplines which required accuracy, precision, or both. I've built rifles for all sorts of competitions as well. Every discussion I hear about the difference between the two, accuracy and precision, is just about as off-putting as anything can be.
As to rifles which surprised me with their accuracy, or precision; take your pick, one of the most memorable was a Weatherby MKV in 270 WM. What set this rifle apart from other Weatherbys, was the definite bulge in the barrel, about 2 inches back from the muzzle. I took it out to test it, prior to cutting the barrel back. I was pleasantly surprised when the first shot hit three inches high and centered. The second shot missed the paper; this was more like what I expected. I fired the third, just out a sense of obligation, and darned if it didn't hit 1/2 inch to the right of the first shot. I walked up and had a look and noticed the first hole was slightly oblong. I shot anther two and had five shots in about 5/8 inch. I was truly amazed.
Another was a P14 with more than a little pitting in the bore. I don't think it ever shot a group over an inch. A friend came out to show me his MOA guaranteed Vangard. Sure enough, it put three shots into an inch. I sat down with the P14 and put three into a little over a half. There have been a lot, over the years, but these two stand out. GD

I would agree--and I get it. But aside from my explanation that the two major English dictionaries say precision and accuracy mean the same thing, I'll make the following points:

1) Children would naturally understand it--especially if they've never been told before what accuracy and precision mean, or that in general use they're considered synonyms.

!) The choice to use those terms to define the difference between groups and hitting a certain spot didn't appear until after World War Two. I have a pretty large library of books about firearms, and the earliest book where it appears is Rifle Precision, the 1951 Bench Rest Shooter's Annual, edited and partly written by Townsend Whelen.

Switching the "benchrest" definitions of precision and accuracy would have worked just as well. Dunno if somebody flipped a coin, but....

English dictionaries (especially Webster's) generally define words by "general usage," meaning what most people think they mean. Which is why I stated the definitions you (and others) state of "accuracy" and "precision" are indeed jargon. That doesn't mean they're invalid in that smaller context, but also doesn't mean that MOST people (not just a small subset of rifle shooters) think they mean different things.

In general, big game hunters regard "accuracy" as group size, whether 3-shot or 5-shot, which is why I use that term in my articles--because it's "common usage."

I have seen several Remington 788s that would consistently shoot some incredible groups

Mine is a Bubba'd WWI Mauser 98 I found on the used rack. The stock looked to have been sporterized bY either a 6 year old or me on a good day. The barrel appeared to have been cut down as the front sight was gone and the barrel was flat across the muzzle. I was fortunate to have had the rear sight left in place. The bolt handle was bent enough to clear a 3-9 x40 scope and had been correctly drilled and tapped for a scope base. Something screamed "student gunsmith" in my mind regarding this gun. For $70 I had to give it a whirl.

It gave me lackluster accuracy when I initially sighted in the scope but when I tried a starting load with Varget and a 150 gr Hornady the rifle got interesting. The first three rounds at 100 yards were touching and subsequent groups were pretty much the same. The gun with this load is currently my loaner for those starting out deer hunting. Velocity is about half way between a 30/30 and a 300 Savage when using 150 gr bullets in each. I tried putting the action in a "nicer" Butler Creek stock and later a Bishop but accuracy headed south both times. I learned my lesson and the gun will remain "as is".

I’ve got a savage 116 weather warrior in 30-06, loves 150g Hornady Interlocs. 5 shot clovers.