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Theres not a manual or die instruction that tells you how to set up dies properly anyway except 1 set of dies and that's Whiddens because they come with a comparator.
The old screw it down untill it touches the shell holder and back it off a 1/4 turn was probably when dies were invented and still are the same so I guess nothing changes in time.
If I set my dies up like that some brass wouldn't let the bolt close or have resistance or have case separations, its exactly why belted cases got a bad rap from case separation setting the dies up by die instructions instead of ignoring the belt and instructions and just bumping them like a non belted case.
Just save yourself some headache and FL size bumping the shoulder .002-.003 everytime and call it good.

Last edited by sherm_61; 03/19/24.
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Using die shims and either a comparator insert or stripped bolt sizing for feel, I normally average around a .004 -.010" shim under the die to get my headspace from the standard die set up instructions.

I normally don't worry about bumping until the 3rd or 4th firing, when I start to get resistance.

Sierra has this to say about it:

Quote
Full Length Sizing

Full length sizing is the most commonly used form of resizing. Full length sizing dies reduce the neck and body dimensions of a fired case to allow free and easy chambering. In most instances, full length sizing will reduce the case dimensions enough to allow it to be used interchangeably in several different rifles chambered for the same cartridge. Contrary to popular opinion, full length resizing is commonly used by the vast majority of competitive shooters, especially in those disciplines where rapid-fire is involved. It should be clearly understood that full length sizing does not reduce a fired case to its original, unfired dimensions. The goal here is to bring the case dimensions down far enough to allow the reloaded case to be chambered without difficulty.

Adjustment of the full length die calls for the die body to be screwed down in the press until it contacts the shell holder at the top of the ram’s stroke. If the ammunition is to be reused in the same gun the cases were originally fired in, back the die off 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn and size a lightly lubricated case. Wipe the case dry, and chamber it in the gun. If any resistance is felt, lower the die body another 1/8 of a turn (or less), and repeat the process with another fired case. This is repeated until the action will just close without resistance. When this has been accomplished, set the lock ring to secure the die in place. This method will ensure that the fired cases are resized with a minimum amount of headspace. This case has now been “custom fitted” to that particular chamber.

https://www.sierrabullets.com/reload-basics/resizing-depriming/

So it looks like Sierra leans towards "it's all FLS, but with the die adjusted properly"


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Adjusting the full length die so it moves the shoulder a couple of thousandths results in the full length of the case being sized, so that's full length sizing. Adjusting the full length die so it sizes the brass down as much as it can, that is to the full capability of the die, should then be called fully full length sizing. FFLS

Voila! No more "partial full" nonsense.grin

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Originally Posted by mathman
Adjusting the full length die so it moves the shoulder a couple of thousandths results in the full length of the case being sized, so that's full length sizing. Adjusting the full length die so it sizes the brass down as much as it can, that is to the full capability of the die, should then be called fully full length sizing. FFLS

Voila! No more "partial full" nonsense.grin

There you go.
PFLR and FFLS.

It accurately describes the distinction between the two.


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You're hanging onto that partial full self contradiction.

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Originally Posted by alpinecrick
Originally Posted by mathman
Adjusting the full length die so it moves the shoulder a couple of thousandths results in the full length of the case being sized, so that's full length sizing. Adjusting the full length die so it sizes the brass down as much as it can, that is to the full capability of the die, should then be called fully full length sizing. FFLS

Voila! No more "partial full" nonsense.grin

There you go.
PFLR and FFLS.

It accurately describes the distinction between the two.


No disrespect, but it is like being pregnant or not being pregnant, there is no partial in it. I full length resize as recommended by the RCBS instructions to screw the resizing die to touch the shell plate, drop the ram and turn the die DOWN 1/8 of a turn to get full length resized.

All the drama that has happened since the initial post, muddies up the water. Those that are afraid to FLR and want to just neck size to insure brass to last, don’t really need to worry, I was shooting brass I have shot over and over through my 223 yesterday, that I made from military brass decades ago when I couldn’t afford commercial brass.

If you are going to hunt with your reloads, you had better full length resize and then run those rounds through your rifle to make sure you don’t have any bolt closing problems.

I also have as many as 5 different rifles in each cartridge, so it is good practice to FLR, so that those cartridges will work in all rifles. As was mentioned a couple times, a body die will also reduce your loaded cartridge to factory specs and it is amazing how those reloaded rounds will fit like a factory round.

Don’t be afraid to full length resize…


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Originally Posted by shrapnel
I full length resize as recommended by the RCBS instructions to screw the resizing die to touch the shell plate, drop the ram and turn the die DOWN 1/8 of a turn to get full length resized.

All the drama that has happened since the initial post, muddies up the water. Those that are afraid to FLR and want to just neck size to insure brass to last, don’t really need to worry, I was shooting brass I have shot over and over through my 223 yesterday, that I made from military brass decades ago when I couldn’t afford commercial brass.

If you are going to hunt with your reloads, you had better full length resize and then run those rounds through your rifle to make sure you don’t have any bolt closing problems.

I also have as many as 5 different rifles in each cartridge, so it is good practice to FLR, so that those cartridges will work in all rifles. As was mentioned a couple times, a body die will also reduce your loaded cartridge to factory specs and it is amazing how those reloaded rounds will fit like a factory round.

Don’t be afraid to full length resize…


I do not follow those directions. I can full length size my brass enough for smooth and easy chambering while moving the brass a lot less than what those directions will do for my brass, dies and chambers.

I shoot a number of 308 Winchester chambered rifles, have a half dozen or so full length dies, and several shell holders. Taken individually, all are within spec. Nevertheless, by choosing the right chamber, die and shell holder I can generate a combination that will produce head separations sooner than later using the generic RCBS instructions.

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Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by shrapnel
I full length resize as recommended by the RCBS instructions to screw the resizing die to touch the shell plate, drop the ram and turn the die DOWN 1/8 of a turn to get full length resized.

All the drama that has happened since the initial post, muddies up the water. Those that are afraid to FLR and want to just neck size to insure brass to last, don’t really need to worry, I was shooting brass I have shot over and over through my 223 yesterday, that I made from military brass decades ago when I couldn’t afford commercial brass.

If you are going to hunt with your reloads, you had better full length resize and then run those rounds through your rifle to make sure you don’t have any bolt closing problems.

I also have as many as 5 different rifles in each cartridge, so it is good practice to FLR, so that those cartridges will work in all rifles. As was mentioned a couple times, a body die will also reduce your loaded cartridge to factory specs and it is amazing how those reloaded rounds will fit like a factory round.

Don’t be afraid to full length resize…


I do not follow those directions. I can full length size my brass enough for smooth and easy chambering while moving the brass a lot less than what those directions will do for my brass, dies and chambers.

I shoot a number of 308 Winchester chambered rifles, have a half dozen or so full length dies, and several shell holders. Taken individually, all are within spec. Nevertheless, by choosing the right chamber, die and shell holder I can generate a combination that will produce head separations sooner than later using the generic RCBS instructions.


That is fine, but be aware that the amount of reloading I have done with that method has not produced the separation that many are afraid of. You will also find one chamber is more forgiving than 5…


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5?

I have nine 308 rifles and load for several others. I load to suit each one.

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Originally Posted by mathman
5?

I have nine 308 rifles and load for several others. I load to suit each one.


You won’t quit will you? Having several sets of dies vs 1 set that works for all the different chambers isn’t the same.

See what you can find wrong with that…


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Originally Posted by shrapnel
Originally Posted by mathman
5?

I have nine 308 rifles and load for several others. I load to suit each one.


You won’t quit will you? Having several sets of dies vs 1 set that works for all the different chambers isn’t the same.

See what you can find wrong with that…



You're misinterpreting why I have several full length dies.

It doesn't matter which die use. There's enough difference between the long and short chambers that no matter the die, I prefer to set it differently to properly size the brass.

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Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by shrapnel
Originally Posted by mathman
5?

I have nine 308 rifles and load for several others. I load to suit each one.


You won’t quit will you? Having several sets of dies vs 1 set that works for all the different chambers isn’t the same.

See what you can find wrong with that…



You're misinterpreting why I have several full length dies.

It doesn't matter which die use. There's enough difference between the long and short chambers that no matter the die, I prefer to set it differently to properly size the brass.


So you're basically using a FL die, set up "properly" to give you the amount of bump you want per individual rifle.. rather than go through the trouble of adjusting your die per rifle correct?

I see the logic in it.


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That's not it. I adjust dies all the time, it's easier than it's made out to be.

Over time I've collected the various dies and learned how they work the brass, so I may then select the die depending on which effect I wish to achieve.

For example, I have a Forster with it's neck section honed to be a good fit with thicker brass like Lapua, Lake City, Federal and so on. For thinner necked brass I have an RCBS that's a good fit. Same for a Redding I picked up along the way. If I wish to bring the case body diameter and taper closer to like new dimensions (without shortening the headspace dimension too much) I have a Hornady die that's just the ticket. I've got a Lee that will squeeze them down to near new in all dimensions.

I should add that I rarely use the expander ball with any of them.

Last edited by mathman; 03/19/24. Reason: added text
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Originally Posted by mathman
That's not it. I adjust dies all the time, it's easier than it's made out to be.

Over time I've collected the various dies and learned how they work the brass, so I may then select the die depending on which effect I wish to achieve.

For example, I have a Forster with it's neck section honed to be a good fit with thicker brass like Lapua, Lake City, Federal and so on. For thinner necked brass I have an RCBS that's a good fit. Same for a Redding I picked up along the way. If I wish to bring the case body diameter and taper closer to like new dimensions (without shortening the headspace dimension too much) I have a Hornady die that's just the ticket. I've got a Lee that will squeeze them down to near new in all dimensions.

I should add that I rarely use the expander ball with any of them.

Got it, makes sense.

I don't use die expander balls either. I use a combination of neck bushings and expander mandrels.


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OK I have some brass that will not chamber, question, do I need a body die or can I use my FL die to bump the neck back? and what stage do I resize the neck to load a bullet?

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Originally Posted by BooBear
OK I have some brass that will not chamber, question, do I need a body die or can I use my FL die to bump the neck back? and what stage do I resize the neck to load a bullet?
You dont " bump" the neck back its the shoulder on the datum line.
I suggest you get a comparator the size you need for specific caliber snd watch Alex Wheelers strip bolt method its on his website Wheeler Accuracy.

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I started reloading 51 years ago, always FL sized with never a problem. Neck sizing became the rage and I bought NS dies, had problems so I went back to FL sizing and problems went away. Never have annealed, don't see any need to. I trim cases to SAAMI specs and seat bullets to SAAMI O.A.L. spec too. Always been able to find an accurate load without fooling with seating depth.

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Originally Posted by mathman
You're hanging onto that partial full self contradiction.
If I put 8 ounces of beer in a sixteen ounce mug, is it not partially full?

Or, are you a partially empty kind of guy?


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Originally Posted by mathman
I should add that I rarely use the expander ball with any of them.

MM, are then using a LCD on the necks?


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Originally Posted by alpinecrick
Originally Posted by mathman
I should add that I rarely use the expander ball with any of them.

MM, are then using a LCD on the necks?


No, those dies size the necks. I typically use a Lyman M-die or mandrel die. Or no expansion at all for certain brass thicknesses in the right dies.

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