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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,257
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
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I just noticed cci makes a 357 mag shot shell loaded with #4 shot…. I’ve only ever used the 38 version that has 8’s or 9’s. I’ve only shot gophers and beer cans with them, but do carry a few when I’m around rattle snakes….. would the 4’s be better or not enough shot to be an effective pattern? Coincidentally, just yesterday I discovered the same thing. I looked for a place online to purchase some, but they were all out of stock. I guess they're popular. I watched a YouTube video about it yesterday, and he patterned them, and they pattern just fine. Best patterns were achieved from short barreled handguns, perhaps because the shot has less time in contact with rifling. I just used a CCI .38 Special shot load (not the #4) the other day for dispatching a sick chick. I used my old Colt Model 357. Very effective. Put the poor creature out of its suffering instantly. No, companies make products that sell not something few will buy. Frankly i do not know what is more stupid concept .357 loaded with #4 or shotshell cartridges marketed to be used in autoloaders. The only rationale for birdshot handgun shells is for farmers or farmhands to use against snakes. S&W and Taurus produce revolvers for that purpose called Governor and Judge respectfully. Any avid outdoorsman using trails where poisenous snakes are common can buy snake boots, snake gators and or snake pants, problem solved. More comments on stuff of which you have no knowledge. Google let you down again.
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2011
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I do not deal with poisenous snakes, but I would not kill any because I hate rats and mice worse then snakes.
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Joined: May 2002
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
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I do not deal with poisenous snakes, but I would not kill any because I hate rats and mice worse then snakes. You don't deal with real guns & ammo either, and it shows.
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,275 Likes: 12
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,275 Likes: 12 |
I do not deal with poisenous snakes, but I would not kill any because I hate rats and mice worse then snakes. You don't deal with real guns & ammo either, and it shows. Slavek / Maser collects Airsoft Guns and Diapers. Why Rick Bin continues to let this POS post here is beyond comprehension.
Last edited by chlinstructor; 03/21/24.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,939 Likes: 1 |
Shot shells are excellent for shooting rats in barns and not shooting holes in the walls or roof
Last edited by jwp475; 03/21/24.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Aug 2011
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2011
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[bleep] shells are excellent for shooting rats in barns and not shooting holes in the walls or roof Not really, most farmers have mean cats and can set traps. Rats are nocturnal, therefore, air rifles or rimfire rifles equipped in night capable optics are required for serious dedicated work. Poison works where there is no danger of exposure to other animals. Good brand in USA is Ramik Green.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2000
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I’ve got a box or two of the .45 ACP crimped loads Remington made about 20 years ago, #12 shot covers a sheet of paper thoroughly and they function in our 1911’s. Not for revolvers. We loaded the Speer capsules years ago with #11 for the .38 Spl. A manufacturer made some cups top and bottom for shot in .38 but I don’t recall who, they were flush with the case so didn’t hold much shot.
I’ve tried about all the factory loads, the .22 LR is pretty feeble unless you’re close. The .22 Magnum kills larger snakes better. I've shot several prairie rattlers with the Remington ACP #12's. The snakes just go limp, instant death. They were by far the best factory shot load I’ve ever used, wish some manufacturer would step up and make them again.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,939 Likes: 1 |
[bleep] shells are excellent for shooting rats in barns and not shooting holes in the walls or roof Not really, most farmers have mean cats and can set traps. Rats are nocturnal, therefore, air rifles or rimfire rifles equipped in night capable optics are required for serious dedicated work. Poison works where there is no danger of exposure to other animals. Good brand in USA is Ramik Green. You are so full of BS, I use them in my barn despite owning 3 cats. You have no first han experience but i do.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,203
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2011
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[bleep] shells are excellent for shooting rats in barns and not shooting holes in the walls or roof Not really, most farmers have mean cats and can set traps. Rats are nocturnal, therefore, air rifles or rimfire rifles equipped in night capable optics are required for serious dedicated work. Poison works where there is no danger of exposure to other animals. Good brand in USA is Ramik Green. You are so full of BS, I use them in my barn despite owning 3 cats. You have no first han experience but i do. I grew up in countryside, your cats are worthless.
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,939 Likes: 1 |
[bleep] shells are excellent for shooting rats in barns and not shooting holes in the walls or roof Not really, most farmers have mean cats and can set traps. Rats are nocturnal, therefore, air rifles or rimfire rifles equipped in night capable optics are required for serious dedicated work. Poison works where there is no danger of exposure to other animals. Good brand in USA is Ramik Green. You are so full of BS, I use them in my barn despite owning 3 cats. You have no first han experience but i do. I grew up in countryside, your cats are worthless. You are full of BS and worthless as well
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,203
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,203 |
[bleep] shells are excellent for shooting rats in barns and not shooting holes in the walls or roof Not really, most farmers have mean cats and can set traps. Rats are nocturnal, therefore, air rifles or rimfire rifles equipped in night capable optics are required for serious dedicated work. Poison works where there is no dange"r of exposure to other animals. Good brand in USA is Ramik Green. You are so full of BS, I use them in my barn despite owning 3 cats. You have no first han experience but i do. Real farmers do not have time to chase rats or waste effort on "fancy feast cats".
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,939 Likes: 1 |
[bleep] shells are excellent for shooting rats in barns and not shooting holes in the walls or roof Not really, most farmers have mean cats and can set traps. Rats are nocturnal, therefore, air rifles or rimfire rifles equipped in night capable optics are required for serious dedicated work. Poison works where there is no dange"r of exposure to other animals. Good brand in USA is Ramik Green. You are so full of BS, I use them in my barn despite owning 3 cats. You have no first han experience but i do. Real farmers do not have time to chase rats or waste effort on "fancy feast cats". . Buy a Clue
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,275 Likes: 12
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,275 Likes: 12 |
[bleep] shells are excellent for shooting rats in barns and not shooting holes in the walls or roof Not really, most farmers have mean cats and can set traps. Rats are nocturnal, therefore, air rifles or rimfire rifles equipped in night capable optics are required for serious dedicated work. Poison works where there is no dange"r of exposure to other animals. Good brand in USA is Ramik Green. You are so full of BS, I use them in my barn despite owning 3 cats. You have no first han experience but i do. Real farmers do not have time to chase rats or waste effort on "fancy feast cats". . Buy a Clue Slavek / Maser is a dipschitt that wouldn’t know schitt from shinola. His specialty is being a fake Internet “Preacher” named Jason Cardenas who tries to hustle little old ladies out of their savings. Well, that, and posing for pictures in diapers and posting them on the Internet.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 323
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 323 |
Since we moved "out here" some 20 years ago, I've killed a metric chit-ton of rattlesnakes around the house and in the pastures with handgun shot loads. With the exception of .22 LR (which SUCK), a couple with CCI 9mm's and with Remington 45 ACP's factory shotshells, they've all been done-in with .38/.357, .44 Special and .45 Colt shot handloads, most with CCI capsules but a few using gas checks when I ran out of capsules. What I've learned- Lower velocity loads pattern better. 800 fps is plenty fast. 7.5, 8 or 9 shot, it doesn't really matter in the larger calibers, but in .38/.357 I stick with 8's and 9's, ultimately settling on 9's. To keep from buying a whole bag of shot, I just bought a box of cheap 12 ga. #9's and rob the shot from them. There's no need in patterning at much over 6 or so feet. Even long snakes have a relatively short striking distance. Sometimes, a fella just can't shoot- You're not always going to have enough ammunition, so practice whoppin' 'em with a tree branch- Sometimes you're not going to have a shot load when you need it, so practice a lot with your carry load-
"Only accurate rifles are interesting."- Col. Townsend Whelen "I always tell the truth....that way, I don't have to remember anything."- George Burns NRA Life Member Certified NRA Reloading Instructor Certified Texas Hunter Education Instructor
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,749 Likes: 20 |
I've opened my hen house door to see precisely this scene as well.
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,257
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,257 |
Since we moved "out here" some 20 years ago, I've killed a metric chit-ton of rattlesnakes around the house and in the pastures with handgun shot loads. With the exception of .22 LR (which SUCK), a couple with CCI 9mm's and with Remington 45 ACP's factory shotshells, they've all been done-in with .38/.357, .44 Special and .45 Colt shot handloads, most with CCI capsules but a few using gas checks when I ran out of capsules. What I've learned- Lower velocity loads pattern better. 800 fps is plenty fast. 7.5, 8 or 9 shot, it doesn't really matter in the larger calibers, but in .38/.357 I stick with 8's and 9's, ultimately settling on 9's. To keep from buying a whole bag of shot, I just bought a box of cheap 12 ga. #9's and rob the shot from them. There's no need in patterning at much over 6 or so feet. Even long snakes have a relatively short striking distance. Sometimes, a fella just can't shoot- You're not always going to have enough ammunition, so practice whoppin' 'em with a tree branch- Sometimes you're not going to have a shot load when you need it, so practice a lot with your carry load- You're smarter than I. I bought the whole bag of #9. It still serves as ballast from time to time.
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 15,704 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 15,704 Likes: 1 |
How many are in that one picture? That gives me the willies. 😬
NRA Life,Endowment,Patron or Benefactor since '72.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,961
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,961 |
I posted this photo a year or so ago. It’s not exactly a fair comparison to cartridges with less shot, but does give an indication what a handgun with a shot charge is capable of. Mine is the same powder charge as a 2 1/2” 410 shot shell with #8 shot, developed for my 460 S&W. I really need to try a lighter powder charge to improve my shot pattern. memtb
Last edited by memtb; 03/23/24.
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,926 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,926 Likes: 2 |
I have some .410 shotcups and over shot card wads and have plans to try making some shot loads for .41 magnum. Sage Outdoors supplies vegetable fiber wads, gas checks, and #12 shot. https://www.sagesoutdoors.com/shotshell-items/vegetable-fiber-wads/I purchased components there to make 327 and 41 mag shotshells. I use a light load of Titegroup as recommended in a manual for the lightest bullet listed. Tamp a fiber wad over the top. Add enough shot to fill case. (A Lee dipper of the appropriate size works well for measurement.) Place a gas check, concave down, on top of shot. Apply a roll crimp to keep gas check in place. I suppose a wax seal could be added at this point, but I have not. The loads will reliably cover a paper plate at seven paces. Plenty for killing snakes beyond striking distance.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,926 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,926 Likes: 2 |
Sometimes, a fella just can't shoot- There's a good chance a laying hen would have ended in the stew pot with noodles. You're not always going to have enough ammunition, so practice whoppin' 'em with a tree branch- Sometimes you're not going to have a shot load when you need it, so practice a lot with your carry load- Full justification for a belt fed.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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