Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Enduron 4166

I have a pound of this but there is no load data available that I can find. I hear it's been discontinued. Does anyone have any data for this in a 257 Roberts?

https://hodgdonreloading.com/

You didn't find any there?

No data comes up

The Hodgdon website show data for 75, 80, 90, 100, 115 gr bullets with 4166. It's listed under IMR 4166.

Not for +P, but it does for 257 Roberts.

Hodgdon’s has 4166 data for the 257R, but not for the +P, and Enduron data from other sources is quite scarce.

Just stick an extra grain in the case…..😁

Incredibly, Hodgdon’s has dropped the Enduron loads from their paper manuals beginning in 2023.

If you were close I’d buy that pound of 4166 from ya…

It's not hard to extrapolate the data to +P pressure.

Yes, once again the chrono is our friend…..

The IMR Endurons were designed to approximate the burn-rate of several popular "Extreme" powders Hodgdon was getting from Australia--which became hard-to-get for several reasons during that era, among them shipping problems from OZ.

IMR4166 was designed to approximate the role of Varget, and I was assigned to do an article for the 2015 Annual Manual on it. Tried it in nine rifles chambered for rounds from the .204 Ruger to .45-70, and it worked very well with charges similar to Hodgdon's data for Varget with the same bullet weights.

I had just gotten hooked on the Enduron powders when their distribution stopped. Bummer.

Guy

The IMR4166 and 7977 powders I’m burning are the cleanest burning, and reduce copper more, than any other copper reducing powders I’ve tried.

A friend who loads for a bunch of his family’s 30-06’s says the same thing about 4451.

Only he was smart enough to lay in a big supply of 4451 when it became apparent production had been preempted.

I tried 4166 and 4451. They both did well, but 4451 is the one I'll miss when I run out

Luckily, I liked my first samples of 4451 so much I purchased plenty when it was under $200 an 8-pounder. In fact, have more than twice as much 4451 as H4350. It works....

I never thought of looking under the IMR. Thanks to all that helped. I knew I could count on the fire for assistance

Not sure I’d waste primers or bullets wanking up a load for a powder discontinued and/or unavailable. Just me…

Any chance the Enduran powders become available again?

Yes, a while back the status changed from discontinued to unavailable.

I'd bet not if there is a Hodgdon branded powder that is supposed to be the same.

I wondered if the 4166 was supposed to approximate 4064.

Never was impressed with Varget when comparing to 4064 in my 22-250s.

Accuracy in those 22-250s never was quite as good in my rifles.

I have about two and a half pounds and I have a few really good loads in different rifles. I probably won’t use it to work up new loads in other rifles. The same goes for IMR 4451 and IMR 7977.

The reason the Endurons were discontinued (or suspended, take your pick) is NOT that they competed with Hodgdon-brand powders. Instead the Endurons were to supplement the Hodgdon-branded "Extreme" powders that are made in Australia. At the time (the Obama-panic years) demand was so high that producing and shipping the Extremes to the U.S. wasn't coming close to filling the demand. (Evidently part of the problem was the Australian ships had to refuel in Hawaii, and the port authorities there were becoming increasingly nervous about more big ships full of highly flammable powder.)

So Hodgdon contracted with the powder manufacturer in Quebec, which had for years had been making (and providing to Hodgdon) the "standard" IMR powders such as IMR4064, IMR4350, etc, to produce the Endurons. That would also solve the shipping problem from Australia, since the powders could be delivered by rail to the U.S. far quicker than across the Pacific Ocean by ship. (The Quebec powder manufacturer also actually managed to improve on the traditional IMR powders, by not only making them more temperature-stable but adding a decoppering agent.)

But the company already some previous military contracts, which became larger after the recent "problems" around the world. And since those contracts preceded Hodgdon's, the factory had to suspend the production of the Endurons--but may start producing them if the world situation improves. (Instead it's gotten worse.)

It also sounds like you may not understand that Hodgdon doesn't manufacture any powder except Pyrodex. The company started by selling "war-surplus" powders after WWII, and after those ran out contracted with various powder manufacturers to make them--along with newer introductions. In fact some of the other "traditional" IMR powders have also been made in Australia, along with Quebec.

So no, Hodgdon wasn't "worried" about the Endurons competing with "Hodgdon-brand" powders. Instead they specifically contracted for the Endurons to supplement the previous Hodgdon and IMR powders, due to the increasing demand.