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So, has anyone from the military experienced the same sort of unintentional discharges that the police report?
What fresh Hell is this?
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Campfire Tracker
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Let's face it, most military personnel can't hit the broad side of a barn with a handgun, and that's from inside the barn.
Same solution that worked in the 1940's would work today, just re-issue the M1 carbine only chamber it in .357 Magnum Rimless (which is what it should have been back then anyway). .357Sig, 140 gr. FP or 147 gr. Hornady Custom XTP. GR
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Let's face it, most military personnel can't hit the broad side of a barn with a handgun, and that's from inside the barn.
Same solution that worked in the 1940's would work today, just re-issue the M1 carbine only chamber it in .357 Magnum Rimless (which is what it should have been back then anyway). .357Sig, 140 gr. FP or 147 gr. Hornady Custom XTP. GR That’s a nasty little round.
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Campfire Regular
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The M92 is just a tad bigger then it needs to be.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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What ?? No CZ75 in the testing ??
kwg It failed to meet program requirements. I have one CZ design. It has a safety and double/single action similar to the M9 and it has never missed a shot due to a jam or malfunction. It's only down side is, it's a steel frame and it's from a former USSR company. Now that CZ owns Colt, I'm betting the Sig won't last long and the CZ 75 design will be making an appearance at some time in the future. Just my guess. kwg
For liberals and anarchists, power and control is opium, selling envy is the fastest and easiest way to get it. TRR. American conservative. Never trust a white liberal. Malcom X Current NRA member.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,181 |
Let's face it, most military personnel can't hit the broad side of a barn with a handgun, and that's from inside the barn.
Same solution that worked in the 1940's would work today, just re-issue the M1 carbine only chamber it in .357 Magnum Rimless (which is what it should have been back then anyway). My Father was issued an M1 Carbine in 1942. After seeing how many times his fellow Marines had to shoot Japanese soldiers with the .30 Carbine ball ammo before they were no longer a threat, he said that he thought that the 351 WSL with its standard 180 grain bullet would have been a better cartridge choice.
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Does anyone know if Glock sent an off the shelf pistol to be evaluated?
I CAN NOT find it anymore - but I distinctly remember a youtube discussion around the Glock vs Sig vs Beretta discussion. DOD wanted a manual thumb safety or decocker. Sig, sent their M17 with a thumb safety. Glock sent a bone stock G17 figuring "We're Glock, take it and like it".
I know you can have a safety installed on the Glock - just trying to see if I'm mis-remembering a youtube video I saw from years ago. So figured I'd ask - does anyone here know what Glock actually sent and if it actually met parameters that way? No, Glock sent a manual safety version that later became the G19X. The contract called for a modular grip design that fit both a "compact" and full-size role. Glock's way of meeting the solicitation was one gun where Sig offered two guns and the modular grip modules. CZ, FN, Beretta, and a few others also entered submissions. Glock and Sig were the only two pistols to make it to the final rounds of the trial, either due to failure to meet requirements or because of performance. Both Glock and Sig met requirements, but Sig severely undercut Glock's price. The selection was made without completing the final round of testing as I understand it. Don't see a manual safety on the G19X: https://us.glock.com/en/pistols/g19x' Glock will provide a safety to meet certain contract requirements. There have not been many of these contracts but they can be searched. Portugal is one, 40,000 units.
B L M - Bureau of Land Management
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Campfire Sage
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OP
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
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So, has anyone from the military experienced the same sort of unintentional discharges that the police report? I think the military is being hush hush on that.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I have a friend who was in Vietnam war.
He talked about single action colts. Used when clearing tunnels. Elmer Keith sent him cartridges that had 22 shorts imbedded backwards in the slugs. April Fools, right? Otherwise, you cannot be serious about this.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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This thread is the perfect example why I don’t engage in conversation with strangers at the gun counter, the guys behind it or the guys in front of it.
MAGA
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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I have a friend who was in Vietnam war.
He talked about single action colts. Used when clearing tunnels. Elmer Keith sent him cartridges that had 22 shorts imbedded backwards in the slugs. April Fools, right? Otherwise, you cannot be serious about this. I have heard that .45 caliber revolvers were the handguns of choice for Tunnel Rats, so it's not beyond belief that the SAA .45 might have played an occasional part in it. Mostly, though, Tunnel Rats used old M1917 revolvers in .45 ACP. The reason was to avoid hot brass in their faces should they have to fire inside the tunnel. ![[Linked Image]](https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/full/252877.jpeg)
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So, has anyone from the military experienced the same sort of unintentional discharges that the police report? I think the military is being hush hush on that. ' M17/M18 military versions have the manual safety. The cops typically do not have the Manual Safety models. When they have a negligent discharge, it's someone's job on the line. Then the personal injury attorneys enter the equation and the class action lawsuits begin. SIG has won all of these lawsuits. Cops have been dismissed and/or disciplined for the ND's or for being less than truthful about the event. No one has been able to prove that a P320 will discharge uncommanded. This has been hashed and re-hashed for at least the past 8 years.
B L M - Bureau of Land Management
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What ?? No CZ75 in the testing ??
kwg It failed to meet program requirements. I have one CZ design. It has a safety and double/single action similar to the M9 and it has never missed a shot due to a jam or malfunction. It's only down side is, it's a steel frame and it's from a former USSR company. Now that CZ owns Colt, I'm betting the Sig won't last long and the CZ 75 design will be making an appearance at some time in the future. Just my guess. kwg Based on what? It will be years and years before the Sig will be replaced. Maybe decades.
"Full time night woman? I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart. I packed me a squaw for ten year, Pilgrim. Cheyenne, she were, and the meanest bitch that ever balled for beads."
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Watched some special forces show. The guy said he'd rather have an extra canteen of water than any pistol. The whole modularity gimmick is hokie. But so is the American military. Is the army any more rational than the air force with their multi role, do nothing well, over complicated fighter/bomber turkeys? Or trying to catch up?
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Campfire Regular
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Watched some special forces show. The guy said he'd rather have an extra canteen of water than any pistol. The whole modularity gimmick is hokie. But so is the American military. Is the army any more rational than the air force with their multi role, do nothing well, over complicated fighter/bomber turkeys? Or trying to catch up? That would depend on the task at hand. People kicking in doors are going to take the pistol as a rifle going down is a much bigger deal than running out of water. The guy out on a patrol, the water is going to be a commodity when support isn't so close. Situation dictates. Statements like that are silly without context.
"Full time night woman? I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart. I packed me a squaw for ten year, Pilgrim. Cheyenne, she were, and the meanest bitch that ever balled for beads."
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I qualified with the S&W M15 and later the M9. I liked the M15 far more than the M9. Neither were easily carried in a shoulder holster under a flight suit. The M9 was more of a PITA to carry that way. IME a Glock 19 would be a disaster for many of the aircrew members I served with. Most only shot the issue weapons once every three years.
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong.
Getting into reloading to save money is like getting married for free sex.
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
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I qualified with the S&W M15 and later the M9. I liked the M15 far more than the M9. Neither were easily carried in a shoulder holster under a flight suit. The M9 was more of a PITA to carry that way. IME a Glock 19 would be a disaster for many of the aircrew members I served with. Most only shot the issue weapons once every three years. You can carry .38 Special in a .357 Magnum revolver.
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,724
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2016
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What ?? No CZ75 in the testing ??
kwg It failed to meet program requirements. I have one CZ design. It has a safety and double/single action similar to the M9 and it has never missed a shot due to a jam or malfunction. It's only down side is, it's a steel frame and it's from a former USSR company. Now that CZ owns Colt, I'm betting the Sig won't last long and the CZ 75 design will be making an appearance at some time in the future. Just my guess. kwg Based on what? It will be years and years before the Sig will be replaced. Maybe decades. ' Yep, M9 to M17 was 32 years give or take. Based on that, M17/M18 have another 25 years to go.
B L M - Bureau of Land Management
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,689 |
I qualified with the S&W M15 and later the M9. I liked the M15 far more than the M9. Neither were easily carried in a shoulder holster under a flight suit. The M9 was more of a PITA to carry that way. IME a Glock 19 would be a disaster for many of the aircrew members I served with. Most only shot the issue weapons once every three years. You can carry .38 Special in a .357 Magnum revolver. What does that have to do with anything he is talking about? None of the handguns he is referencing is chambered for .357 Magnum.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,669
Campfire Sage
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OP
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,669 |
I qualified with the S&W M15 and later the M9. I liked the M15 far more than the M9. Neither were easily carried in a shoulder holster under a flight suit. The M9 was more of a PITA to carry that way. IME a Glock 19 would be a disaster for many of the aircrew members I served with. Most only shot the issue weapons once every three years. You can carry .38 Special in a .357 Magnum revolver. What does that have to do with anything he is talking about? None of the handguns he is referencing is chambered for .357 Magnum. True. I read it too fast. I thought a comparison was being drawn between the Model 15 S&W and the Model 19 S&W. Had I read more carefully, I would have seen the word Glock in front of 19. Evelyn Wood owes me a refund.
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