Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once

Pieter in Zambia has this African he might want to sell:

















Looks like it has been rode hard and put up wet by original owner.
Since it is of 1962-1963 shipping, it cannot be the one that belonged to Jack Lott.
But Jack did drop his on the ground in nearby Mozambique in 1959.
And Wally Johnson did pick it up and finish killing the buffalo for Jack.

Anyway, from the looks of it, it has been sandblasted with real sand to remove the rust, and then re-blued,
and then rusted some more. No jeweling remains on action parts that I can tell,
and the sandblasting has blurred the roll marks and serial number.
The stock re-finish looks to have been done more expertly, still has the original Bakelite plugs.
Sir Jerry hates plastic plugs hiding crossbolts in a stock.
He says even Lulu Roman on Hee Haw would never bake lite.

If in excellent condition it would be an $8K rifle.
It is not.
Would any of the Knights of the Square Table care to take a stab or a chop at a price with whatever swords, Bowies or hatchets they are packing ?
I cross my fingers that there is some rifling left in the bore,
and the Aimpoint is not hiding a boogering of the receiver top.

Would not have a clue. The force of the pre-64 mystic is strong in some buyers. May be a fine using rifle, if the bore is good. A good and proper bead blast, if not deep pitted, and a proper CeraKote application should bring the metal visuals up to pleasing to the eye. The wood appears solid. My biggest attraction to the rifle would be the thumb wheel African rear sight.

Hmmm, my personal wallet would say $800 ish. But, I had just as soon have a CFR Classic as a pre-64. Maybe that is rather have, since I own no pre-64's. I have never had the magnetic draw of the pre-64. Now the Browning FN long extractors I do.

Ok gents, first of all this rifle has less than 20 rounds through it. The pot metal trigger guard seem to want to flake off on its own. I will need new bottom metal (one or two piece?) and stock and sights. Any suggestions? This is a win ultimate shadow SS in 338 win mag. The whole gun will be cerakoted. I’m still trying to decide on a number four or number five contour pac nor stainless one and 14 twist 21”.
Smallfry

Sir Smallfry,

Keeping up with all the models of Win M70 is tough when you get away from the .458 WinMag.
IIRC the original Ultimate Shadows were M70 Classics in the WSM-type calibers/chamberings.
Is yours an FN/SC later model in .338 WM ?
I just googled this:

https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/discontinued/rifles/model-70-ultimate-shadow-ss.html

That is a very light stock, and I think either a Bell & Carlson or a McMillan would be stouter.
The B&C is only 2.0 lbs, light enough,
but with full bedding block making a secondary recoil lug on the barrel unnecessary.

OEM magazine boxes and bottom metal can be found by searching at the various parts suppliers, hit and miss.
Blackburn from Swift I have heard good about, never used them since Sunny Hill and Duane Wiebe had what I have needed
in the past, though Wiebe sold his parts business to someone else.
I have a Wisner CZ drop bottom metal on one rifle, excellent, of course.

The Sunny Hill pipeline has been reliable for me.
Sunny Hill has replacement floor plate and trigger guard one-piece bottom metal for the M70 and M98.
Either standard profile or for drop-belly stock fitting.
I like being able to use the drop floor plate from Sunny Hill on a B&C Medalist for standard belly profile,
so I might be a redneck.
See Freki the FN Mauser with Sunny Hill Drop on a standard B&C:



If you are more refined, McMillan and Sunny Hill teamed up for this combo to allow an extra round in magazine,
but it will add about a half pound over the standard magazine and stock:









The standard profile B&C M70 LA stock to fit your rifle and standard profile bottom metal, again:



That is Marcella above, a re-barreled .416 RemMag, 3.6" mag box.

The usual 3.4" blocked box is plenty.
even the unaltered .338 WM action allows single feeding and ejecting of unfired 3.54" COL,
if you want to put a Lottite to real shame.
That trick works on Chimera WinCzeckster too.
She is a real "parts gun" done on a Pre-'64 M70 that someone before me had altered to .300 WinMag from .30-06.
Then I had Gunsmith put a take-off CZ .458 WinMag barrel on with a little setback at breech end and re-threading.
Mixed and matched stainless steel trigger guard from an M70 Classic:



The M70 Classic Tupperware stock fit too, with a little epoxy-bedded stiffening added to forearm and pillars,
she is a bugholer:

Here is that expected velocity change for barrel length change, again: About 15 fps per inch



Freki does 2145 fps MV with a 24" barrel firing Hornady 500-gr DGS/DGX ammo.
If I shortened barrel to 21" I would expect about 2100 fps flat.
The Phil Shoemaker barrel length: 21".

Rifles differ in tightness and slickness of rifling and chambers, etc.
Tim Sundles' 18"-barreled custom .458 WinMag is 4 fps faster than his 22-barreled job with same 400-gr TSX load he manufactures.

The current FN/SC M70 used for the .338 WinMag does have a longer bridge, shorter ejection port
than what they use on their .458 WinMag:



Makes it look like a stouter rifle if the .338 WinMag is re-barreled to .458 WinMag.

. Slightly different subject . But for a 458 Winchester .

New scope shopping , browsing/re-education
I yi yi ! What in the world happened ?
Does Leupold even make the M8 line of fixed power rifle scopes anymore ?
Has anyone had any success with any lpvo scopes with an illuminated reticle and etched reticle ?
Has anyone tried the Vortex Venom 1-6×30 on a 458 ?
As an all around hunting rifle for all over Alaska big game hunting and bear defense, Including the ABCs and northern Southeast Mainland. The 458 is wonderful versatile and supremely safe to rely on.
It is however assisted by an optic that allows the center of the reticle to be seen on occasion. And that has a useable bdc.
And ofcourse sufficient eye relief !
At this point the Vortex Crossfire 2 , 1-4×24 , 30 mm tube . Is looking better and better . The one I have on my Kimber Montana 338 has proved very useful to date . But I do not know if it will hold up to the Spruce King .
The illuminated reticle is simple and very useful. That scope is bright and clear and not too heavy.
The Vx 2 1-4×20 that lived on Spruce King for a long time was very good at many things. Until it wasn't useful at all.

Does Bushnell still make the 3-9 muzzle loader scopes ?
Thanks !

Sir Spruce,

Working so hard nailing boards on the homestead that you don't have the scope nailed down yet ?
I can understand, I live in a ranch, so I am a rancher, all hat and no cattle, but chores are still rough
on an Old Lady Ranch, even running only two head, Wife and Mother.

This scope selection thing is another one of those deja vu all over again things.
I have been through 127 scopes of 23 different makes/brands but cannot answer specifics except from my small experience.
The scope world is vast.

M-8 and gloss black seem to be gone from Leupold, out of style, sadly,
Progress ? Obesity is epidemic among scopes.

I would trust no illuminated reticle other than the Trijicon tritium.
Glass versus etched reticle: Always have the backup scope along, both scopes in QD mounts for switcheroo.

Adequate eye relief is important: Learn to live with some tunnel vision and shoulder the rifle properly for Weatherby eyebrow prevention.

Light weight: Increases survival of mounts, hence scope survival, mitigates toward 1" tubes.

Smaller ocular bell allows lower mounting with bolt handle clearance to allow basic function.

Smaller objective lens also allows lower mounting and less recoil stress on the biggest piece of glass
wanting to extrude the O-ring/rubber gasket in front of it.

If you like the Vortex Crossfire II 1-4x24mm then go for it, and get two of them.
I have two of them, always good to have a backup for a .458 WinMag.
Any can fail, knock wood.

Of about 40 Leupolds and 20 Nikons, both had same failure rates for me, 5%, 2 Leupolds, 1 Nikon.
"It happens" as Forest Gump coined the phrase.

Never had "It" happen to any of these:
Leupold 2.5x20mm. My first was as an M-8, gloss black, now an FX-II "Ultralight" matte black on the seventh of those I bought.
Leupold 1.5-5x20mm. My first two were VX-III gloss black, third was matte black but still a VX-III.
Leupold 2.5-8x36mm VX-III gloss and matte black seven of those too, and last time I looked I could not find one to order.
I trust those on .458 WinMags.

Leupold has moved deeply into obesity, high prices, and model names that read like LGBTQ+ alphabet soup.

But I do like the FX-Freedom line, best substitute for the defunct Nikon shotgun and muzzle loader scopes.
The Leupold FX-Freedom 3-9x40mm "Muzzle Loader" scope with "Ultimate Slam" reticle, has 4.7" ER on 3X.
The Leupold FX-Freedom 1.5-4x20mm with "MOA-Ring" reticle is very nice on a .458 WinMag.
I have two of those ready to go as backup for each other.

I have one scope with 50mm objective and 34mm tube that weighs about 2.5 pounds without rings. Rat rifle scope.
And there are scopes even more morbidly obese than that out there in the vastness, but none I need.

Sir Ron;
Thank you very much !
The Leupold Freedom , FX line . I will check them out.
My 2.5 power Leopold scopes never let me down , other than seeing the center of the crosshairs on a dark animal in the timber or brush. And the M8, 3 power was one of my favorite scopes.

My psy-op on Sir Jerry worked.
He is pre-occupied with finding the "Ultimate .458 Winchester Magnum,"
yes, the holy grail of the Square Table, an early African.
So distracted, I was able to pry his FN Safari and his M70 JES Custom from his live, warm hands.
Those two girls are staying with me now.

The FN Safari will be henceforth known as "Mahohbesta."
"Besta" is her for-short nickname.
BESTA is an anagram for BEAST.
Mahohbesta does not mean "mah best ho," not that kind of anagram.
She is the kind of rifle that Ron "Mahohboh" Thomson and Richard "Ndlovu" Harland
relied upon as their conservation tools to manage the elephant herds to biological sustainability.
No contest for tally, afterall, what's a few thousand elephants among friends ?

The M70 JES Custom will be called "Hammerella."
No for-short nickname for her, since the name flows off the tongue like the thunder following a nearby lightning strike.
She is the first rifle ever to kill a cape buffalo with a 404-gr Shock Hammer.
It will be a while before I could consider loaning her to Jim Shockey for his HAND OF MAN MUSEUM ay Maple Bay, BC.
He might have to add a new wing dedicated entirely to the .458 Winchester Magnum before I would consider it.

Go easy on Sir Jerry, he had a tornado pass 5 miles from his cattle ranch last night.
He will be out doing the lumberjack job on a bunch of damaged hickory and oak trees.
It may be a while before he puts down the chainsaw and checks in here.
We wish him luck in his quest for the holy grail and the tornado cleanup.
May he not break a leg or a back.

I will first check Mahohbesta and Hammerella for velocity with the Hornady 500-gr DGX/DGS ammo and iron sights,
whenever I can get away from my chores on the old lady ranch.
Don't even have a beehive but have a long honey-doo list.
And pictures too of the girls at home in Kentucky, just to reassure Sir Jerry they are not missing Oklahoma too badly.

Good Luck to Sir Jerry, as he cleans up his unwanted mess.

Pace yourself Sir Jerry! Our Prayers are with you.

HS 58

LOL, yes Sir Ron worked his magic and now has two more great 458's, Sir Tony, i may have ran my stories together over lunch with Sir Ron on Monday, no storm damage here this time, a twister did pass 5 miles West of us moving North/Northeast Sunday night, no sleep for me.

The trees i cut today were 4 hickory and one big water oak that had been hit by lightning, all the trees were dying, got 5 on the ground today, limbed them up and got 2 and a half drug up with tractor for later sawing into rounds, then splitting and letting them season through the summer months to burn this Winter, all good, no injuries, but many thanks for the kind word and prayer just the same.

Old bud that has a handle on private collections not advertised on .com assured me he'd have a first year model 70 African 458 in my hands by Christmas and certainly New Years, another reason i offered these rifles to Sir Ron, no better representative caretaker!

Sir Jerry, that's a good thing and glad everyone is safe.
Ide like to have a hickory tree to roll onto my mill and saw axe handles from. I'm working my way towards chopping 100% of the 10 full cord of firewood I burn every winter.
Not just the splitting , but the whole fall, bucksplit (a technique I developed to save waste and energy) and limb. I have averaged 2.5 full cord the past 2 winters. Over 5 cord total. It's my mental health exercise during the long dark. Combats SAD. And keeps us warm. Plus, I really like nice axes. Many of them are Australian. Tasmanian pattern axes are something of the 458 Winchester Magnum of the axe world.
Not that I don't have a truck load of good powersaws .
Chopping is fun , chainsaws are like work. I don't need the practice.

Very glad you did not get damaged from the tornado. Those things scare me! I think I would build my home underground if I lived where they happened.

Sir Jerry, were all glad that your doing well, and okay, and staying busy as usual.

Great news on the possibility of a first year African as we anxiously await the news and picks.

HS 58

It is MAY DAY 2024 today.
4-28-2024's tornado skirted Sir Jerry and ran !
It aborted that path, just did not feel like losing a wrestling match with Sir Jerry.

That reminds me:

What do you call an abortion clinic ?
It is called an ABORTUARY.
That is what they call them in Pro-Life States where a woman is discouraged from killing her pre-term infant.

As you were:

It is coming out party time for two new girls in Kentucky.
Here is just out they came out of the soft cases when they arrived in KY,
have not been touched by my oily rag yet.
The sunset light about 7 PM may not do them justice:

Very nice. Congrats. I also liked.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Beautiful Browning !

Gorgeous !! Both are Beautiful!
A friend had an Belgium Browning in 458 just like that except the wood was a little plainer. It shot great. Nice and light and lively. We worked up a load with 400 gr Barnes Originals 49k jackets.
He was a bear guide that hunted Prince William Sound and the Peninsula. . But, that was almost 40 years ago. Was a very nice rifle.