Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Hodgden acquires RCBS

Casey,

I'm going to tell a story that I may or may not have posted before on the Campfire--which involves both Hodgdon and the Quebec plant, which may indicate to at least some Campfire members that Hodgdon isn't out to maximize profits by buying "cheap" foreign-made powders:

During a previous "powder shortage" around a decade ago, the "Hodgdon" powders made by Australia Defence Industries (ADI) were in short supply not because ADI wasn't making enough of 'em, but because American handloaders were buying up all they could find--sometimes to resell.

ADI was shipping (literally, as in big ships) as much powder as possible to the USA, but there was a bottleneck in Hawaii, where the port got nervous about so many BIG ships full of smokeless powder showing up. Consequently there were delays in moving the ships through the port--and even then their cargo didn't meet U.S. demand.

The rest of this comes directly from one of the Hodgdon people I knew well back then, who insisted I couldn't publish the info. But that was around a decade ago, and he (and everybody else I knew at Hodgdon back then) is now retired.

What eventually happened due to the shipping/production problems was that ADI wanted to raise prices considerably. Instead of paying the extra $$$, Hodgdon approached General Dynamics and asked if they could make temp-resistant powders similar to the most popular ADI/Hodgdon "Extremes." GD said sure--and said they could even improve them by adding a decoppering agent. This resulted in the IMR Endurons, which could naturally be shipped less expensively into the U.S. by rail. (Hodgdon sent me (and other writers) samples of the four Enduron powders, and they worked very well--as many of us reported.)

But the downside of all this is that General Dynamics is NOT only a powder manufacturer. It also produces a bunch of highly technical military products--and also has long-term contracts with various military entities around the world. Producing powder for handloaders is only a small piece of its pie, the reason the production of Enduron IMR powders was suspended during the recent global "troubles": General Dynamics had previous military contracts.

Might also mention that while, yes, General Dynamics produced the majority of IMR powders since WWI, a LOT was also made by DuPont's primary Delaware plant in the U.S. In fact one of the interesting factoids I've run across during my research is when IMR4350 appeared around 1940, handloaders could actually stop by the plant and buy the powder. (This came from an article in American Rifleman. I have a collection of ARs going back to the late 1920s....)

Might also mention than among my collection of powders, both old and new, that I have steel containers of IMR powders made in Canada, Australia and the USA. Those steel canisters are of course now considered antiques, but many were produced around 20 years ago.

There's also a bunch of great historical information on IMR (and other powders) in the several editions of Phil Sharpe's book Complete Guide to Handloading.

That is a great post. It explains the shortage of Varget (ADI2208) that had the Palma shooters gnashing their teeth. Varget is pretty much the standard powder for the 308 Palma folk. ADI messed with the burn rate over the years which caused problems, but it remains a favorite. I don't recall the Enduron line catching on there.

Had I known that Honolulu Harbor was the bottleneck, I'd have organized a fleet to lessen the load offshore so pulling into port would have caused less heartburn. I figure each fishing charter boat would be good for a hundred 5 gallon buckets each!

I didn't know Metal canned IMR were antiques. I'm working my way through some still! Maybe I need to gunbroker them as collectibles!!!

Chris,

Thanks for the observations!

Enduron 4166 was developed as the Varget/H4895 etc. approximate equivalent, and I tested it extensively 10 different rifles for an article in the 2015 Hodgdon Annual Manual. It worked very well in cartridges from the .204 Ruger to .45-70 Springfield. Which is why I bought a good supply of 4166--along with even more 4451--enough that I'm still using 4451 for a lot of my hunting handloads.

John

John,

My last couple of kegs of TAC said "Made in USA." I assume manufacturing of TAC has been transitioned away from Belgium and to a US-based factory? Or is Ramshot (Hodgdon) simply filling excess demand by utilizing manufacturing capacity in other factories to supplement the production capacity of the plant in Belgium? I'm not sure if you have any insight into that situation, but I thought it was interesting to see "Made in USA" on those kegs of TAC.

How does that not make sense? Blue box '06, 308, 6.5 etc. is still $25 a box. Uncommon stuff like 7x57 is more expensive. It's not some grand conspiracy. Good grief.

Most likley, Hodgdon had to prevail upon St.Marks in Florida to start making the latest batches of TAC.

It doesn't make sense because the conversation was about skyrocketing costs so if that is the case it would be seen by all manufacturers not just some of them.

And I plainly showed you why that wasn't the case, since you used a specific example of an uncommon cartridge in the US, loaded by a US mfg, and compared it with a fairly common cartridge in Europe, loaded by a European mfg. The comparison was hardly apples to apples. If you compared Prvi .308 to Federal .308, there's only a $4 difference. Apples to apples.

To say that 7x57 is uncommon in the US is just ignorant. The 7x57 has been around for over 130+ years and it's been here almost as long. So, if Prvi can manufacturer .308 and 7x57 for less than $20 why can't the other manufacturers? Federal Power-Shok is a lot closer to $30 and not $25 so that's a $10 difference. My point being is that from primers to powder to loaded ammo the price has way outpaced inflation by many manufacturers. Do I think it's a conspiracy no but I do believe there is price gouging going on. If Trump wins in November watch how far a lot of these prices will fall by February when people stop buying. It happened the last time and it will happen again if he is elected.

Because PRVI probably stays tooled up for 8x57 since it was a Yugo staple, and it's a simple switch to 7x57. Prvi also has what is essentially a vertical monopoly on the manufacturing process. All of it comes from Serbia, and they have State funding as they supply the State. Not to mention they aren't exactly in a first world country, and labor is probably dirt cheap. None of this is at all hard to understand. But yeah, those 7x57s are flying off the shelves and US ammo mfgs just misinterpreted the sales data. I just got some Prvi 7.62x39 for $16 a box, Winny white box was $19. No surprises there. I expect third world ammo to be cheaper than US stuff.

Here you are wrong again but that won't stop you...

The World Bank classifies Serbia as a middle-income country and its economy is transitioning from being dominated by the state sector to a market-driven model. The service sector accounts for more than half of the country's gross domestic product.

Like I said obviously reading comprehension eludes you.

I agree with Paul 7X57 isn't that common but the 30/06 and 308 are.
Even the 7/08 is more popular than the 7X57

I’ll be interested to see if they make investments in maintaining the facilities and equipment to keep up with demand

You are not very smart are you?

Mostly just full of wishful thinking. Just sad that I’ll now have to come up with a new plan for dies.

Perhaps your writing just sucks?

But bitching about a typo resulting "d" being left out on Hodgdon really gets the point across, buddy.

My reading comprehension is just fine. Your assessment of reality is what it lacking. I'm sure a country just a couple decades out of a brutal communist regime followed by civil war is on par with the US standard of living and wage rate. Or not. Their average income works out to $782 a month, which you could have gathered from that same Wiki that you Googled.

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Powder Valley
4h ·
FYI – we have just received the following message from Vista Outdoors (the parent company of Alliant Powders):
“Due to the worldwide shortage of nitrocellulose, the Vista Outdoor supply agreement for the sale of Alliant Powder canisters has been suspended for an unknown period. At this time, we have no timeline for the fulfillment and will be canceling outstanding Alliant orders in our system.
Representatives will provide updates and coordinate new orders based on availability.”
We have heard mixed messages from various powder suppliers about the availability of nitrocellulose, and therefore powder, over the past several months. This is one Manufacturer’s analysis of the situation. We are posting this so you can have all the information we have and draw whatever conclusions are right for you.

Because PPU primarily produces ammo for militaries and some of the components they use are purchased and loaded in far higher quantities than most sporting ammo. No comparison between PPU ammo and say, Nosler ammo loaded with Partitions.

As a handloader many non-handloading folks often ask me, “How much money do you save by reloading?”. My answer is “None if you want to compare my handloads to CorLokt/Silvertip/Fusion (or PPU) ammo, but I’m not making cheap ammo, I’m making premium ammo that’s an even better fit for my rifles than the factory $45-$60 a box premium stuff.”
And I don’t even mention the thousands of dollars of reloading tools I have…….