Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles 7x64 Brenneke

Anyone loading this cartridge?
I think I am starting with .280 Rem loads and some slower bulkier powders, maybe RL-19.

Also, most of these rifles have a faster twist than the .280s, so I am thinking 150-175-gr bullets will do better, but I would be interested to see if it shoots the 120-gr Nosler BT and the 140-gr bullets well.

Without accounting for faster twist...the load data I've seen is very close to the .280Rem, but I've never loaded for one

Again, haven't loaded for one...but the 7x64 actually has slightly more case capacity than the .280Rem. Soooo, in theory, in a modern firearm...it might be closer to a .280AI...but I've never seen data near that velocity range. The load data I see varies greatly with the 7x64, and I can't find any SAAMI pressure specs for it. It is a cartridge with some cool factor to it though.

Lee24,

Norma has data in their manual for Norma 204 and MRP, so think Re 19 & 22 burning rates respectively (and 203B for the lighter bullets). They commented that best accuracy was with bullets over 150 grains which they attributed to the relatively long throat in their rifle.

I always wanted one of these, but built a .280 for practicality.

jim

I have two and both shoot TSX 120's and 140's very well. I would start with H4350. Case capacity is actually a bit less than the .280. Start with 52.0 grs.

I just made a deal on a BRNO 21H in 7x64. Expect delivery next week. Anyone have some light to shed on that particular combination? One curious thing I've found in some European publications is that the bore diameter is slightly larger than US 7mm diameters, .285 vs .284 Does that make any sense? Or any practical difference?

Yeah, I've seen the same thing written. I've also seen some data that noted some Euro 7mm's went up to .287-.288. (IIRC, I don't believe the 7x64 was one of these.) This is why Hawk, GS Custom, and Woodleigh make some bullets in these odd diameters. I doubt that .285 would be that big a deal but any more and accuracy might suffer using .284 bullets. If convenient, you may want to slug the bore so you'll know for sure.

I agree with .280rem - the coolness factor for the 7x64 is off the charts. Will have to add it to the list of "someday" projects.

Foul. We need a pic of that 21H! You can't post before receiving the rifle. Double foul

I am going to try all weights, from 120 to 175.
Since mine has a 1:9.25 twist and is a Mannlicher-stocked Mauser carbine, I suspect it was designed to shoot heavier bullets, because that is all that existed in those days.

I know it makes no logistic sense, when you already have a 7mm-08, to go with kooky metrics, but the rifle is totally German, a 7x64 or 8x60 seems appropriate.

Here's the "soon to be mine" Brno 21H:

FWIW, my 7x57 has decided it LOVES 120gr TSX's despite the fast twisted original mauser barrel.

GE

Looks great!

Castandblast,
You'll love that scope - very classic. What kind of mounts are those?
I will post a picture of mine when I get home.

I finally got some new factory ammo. I am waiting on some Norma, but if the wind is calm, I plan to shoot several different loads this weekend, hopefully through a chronograph.

Sweet!!!!

7X64 Benneke case capacity 65 gr H2O.
280 Rem case capacity 68 gr H20.

Basically ballistic twins.

Your seating depth or case brand can have more variation. Use 280 load information starting in the midrange of the powder you choose for the bullet weight.

'Njoy

Yes, I have a lot of loads from European and African sources, mostly with IMR and VV powders. If these factory loads (140, 150, 160, and 175 grain bullets) shoot well, I will try to duplicate them for starters, and work up 120-gr loads, mild and full power, using the Nosler BT I have for my 7mm-08.

Since my rifle is a 20-inch full-stocked Mauser, I am going to give up some velocity to a 24-inch rifle, but all I need is one really accurate load in each of a few weights. I figure if the heavy bullets only move at around 2,500 fps, they will probably be used on closer shots at wild boar or bear, anyway.

I am going to try forming brass from .30-06 brass to see how that works, too.

I have formed 7X64 from 30-06 brass. It is a bit of a chore, as the 7X64 base is somewhat smaller.

Use RCBS dies and STP as the case lube, the brass sizes down in a single pass through the die.

Ted

Well, I promised to post a photo of my 7x64.



And the full view:

Here's my Sauer 202 with bbls. in 7x64 and .30-06 + my son-in-law's Mauser 66S in 7x64 :

Beautiful. Are those EAW pivot mounts?
I am thinking of putting those on 2 Remington 700s I have with iron sights, one in .270 and the other in .30-06.

What is your best load for the 7x64?
I am thinking the Hornady 154-gr bullets have to be tried right after the 140-gr CoreLokt.

Correct Lee, both are EAW swing-out mounts. I've had several in years gone by and always was 100% satisfied. Expensive but true work of arts and with absolute return to zero (I've tried several cheaper brands but there's no comparison in terms of quality).

I found it easy to develop sub-MOA loads with 150 to 175 bullets (lighter bullets do not shoot as well in our 1-9" twist bbls.). Here are some loads I like (pls. use caution and start lower):
Sierra 150 GK / H 4350 / 54.0 = 5 in .65 MOA
Sierra 160 GK / N 160 / 56.0 = 5 in .41 MOA
Sierra 160 GKHP / same load / = 5 in .51 (same P.O.I.)
Hornady 175 BTSP / H 4350 / 52.5 = 5 in .39 MOA

NB.: CCI 250 primers are used with VV N160 powder. Other powders are lit with WLR.

My 7x64 being used mostly on Roedeer, the 160 GK has become my std. load. When expecting some bigger game, I'll switch to the same load + the harder 160 GK HP. So far, this same load has shot 26 Roedeer, 5 Red stags (with careful bullet placement), 1 Fallow deer, 2 Muntjacs and several foxes, all shot between 50 and 250 meters.

Thanks! My Brno carbine has a 9.5:1 rate of twist. My 7mm-08s love the 120 Nosler BT, any 140, and all the 154-gr bullets.
Having a soft and a firmer 160-gr bullet both shooting to the same POI is all you need.

How big are your Roe Deer?
I guess you have to use something like the 7x64 in France. What about Belgium - can you hunt with "military calibers" like the .30-06 there?

I own a SIG Sauer SHR970 in .308, so I know the accuracy you are getting is not all due to the loads. Mine shoots everything well. If I didn't already have some bad-weather all-business hunting rifles, I would have snapped up a 202 matte synthetic .270 with iron sight for $1,000 recently.

Roe is our smallest deer species, with a live weigh of 25-30 kg (55-65 lbs.). However, as is often the case with light animals, they can be surprisingly tough and if the 1st. shot doesn't kill them on the spot, you may be in for some blood tracking. This is why I insist on using "too heavy" calibers like 7x64 and .30-06 on them. The latter is becoming more popular in our hunting fields as it was only recently "demilitarized" (regarding military calibers, we used to have the same situation as in France). Red stag (Cervus Elaphus)is another beast however, a smaller (and genetically compatible) cousin of your Elk (Cervus Canadensis), they have a live weight of 180-250 kg (395-550 lbs.). I've shot some with my 7x64 but, if given the choice, I'll rather go to my .300 Win or 9,3x62. These 2 evidently hit harder and produce more bleeding, should tracking become necessary.
Your remark about the Sauer accuracy is right. Both my bbls. (7x64 & .30-06) shoot into 1 hole (the same might be said of the Blaser R93, of which I own 3). These 2 rifles are the only ones you expect to shoot sub MOA, right out of the box.

Andre,
What do you think of the Norma 170-gr Vulcan load?
How about the Sellier & Bellot 173-gr SP?

Here is another picture of my BRNO.

I happen to have mixed feelings about the 7x64 170 Norma Vulkan. Back in '96, I took my Sauer 202 to the Scottish Highlands, stalking Red Stag. I've had the rifle since a year and hadn't hunted with it yet, nor settled on a petload. Having tried the 170 Vulkan and found it very accurate for factory ammo (.5 MOA for 5 shots), that's what I took along. All went well and I cleanly took 4 stags at distances running between 150-200 m. Then came the 5th one, which dropped like a stone from a shoulder shot at 250 m, so far, so good. En route to the downed animal, the stalker and I were surprised to see the still distant stag get up and start trotting away from us. I didn't think, went prone and started shooting immediately (good I had reloaded my rifle before starting). The stag was now over 300 m now and trotting fast. Thanks to the very wet soil (peat) I watched the bullets splash and could adjust my forward hold. On my 3rd shot, we saw and heard the hit and the stag went down. I reloaded and we went for him. When near, I stayed behind a but to close in. When I looked over the top, I saw that the deer still had his head up and immediately shot him through the neck, dropping the head. Standing before him, we were amazed to see the eyes were still blinking. My stalker grabbed an antler and dropped his knees on the neck, finishing the animal with his knife. While gutting the stag, we noticed that the 1st bullet was a lung shot and the running shot entered just forward of the right hip, before exiting behind the opposing shoulder (after nearly complete penetration lengthwise !). No bones were hit and all 3 exit wounds (incl. the close by neck shot) were about pencil size ?!? Clearly the bullets did not expand properly and acted more like a FMJ. Oh yes, the 4 earlier stags all had broken shoulder(s) and expansion looked OK when viewed inside the carcass.

This being said, I know many hunters who praise the Vulkan. Maybe I fell upon a bad lot, go figure... In other circumstances, I've been pleased with the Vulkan 9,3x62 on Wild Boars (close distance running shots during drive hunts).

Regarding Sellier & Bellot, I've never found them accurate in my rifles (in different calibers) and may have developed some prejudice against them.

Thanks! I have had excellent results with the S&B .303 FMJ loads, and I can buy their 7x64mm ammo for just under $20.00 a box, so I have to give it a try for accuracy.

The 170-gr Vulcan bullet sounds like it is fairly tough, but who can figure. I shot a really big mule deer three times through the heart at almost 300 yards with a 150-gr Bronze Point from a .30-06 and none of them made a big exit wound. I just kept shooting until he stopped trotting.

I started my boys with 40.5 grains of H4895 behind a 125 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip, Remington cases and CCI 200 primers. The kids tell me it recoils about like a .243. This load has killed several antelope with no problems. Good Luck!

I like those rigs.
I know of a factory NEF handi rifle here in 7x64 Brenneke.
Strange, yes? But NEF did chamber a few handis, with 24-inch barrels, in the Brenneke.

Ruger made the M-77 MkII in 7x64 Brenneke, too.
I found a nice one recently for $600.00.

I bought one last month.on ruger forum they said they only made 371 in 7x64.
pete

If I didn't have the Mauser, I woiuld buy the 77 in a heartbeat.
Is it a 22-inch barrel?

I am shooting my Brenneke Stutzen -made about 1938 by Wilhelm Brenneke in Leibzig - since 1980. Until now I am using the RWS HMK 11,2g on roe, boar, red stags and fox quite successful but this year I will try the Sako Arrowhead II 150gr.Sometimes the HMK is a little bit too rough on a small roe and I hope I will get less haematomas with the Sako. If it does not work I'll try the 150 Sierra Gameking 150gr. Does anyone have an experience with the Sako (it is identical with the Sciroco Swift II)

here are some loads Ifound
THS Speer 78.0gr Kemira N12o 41.6gr 1050 v0m/s
KS RWS 123,4 Rottw.R 904 59,5 975
SG RWS 139,0 Rottw.R 907 52,0 880
54,0 965
THS Norma 150,0 Norma 204 57,1 880
HOS Hornady 120,0 KemiraN 140 51,0 965
TS Hornady 139,0 DupontIMR4350 65,4 895
Part.Nosler 160,0 Kemira N 160 58,0 880
TS Speer 175,0 SNPE TU 6 51,5 800
TS Hornady 175,0 Kemira N 160 56,5 835
TIG Brenneke177,4 Rottw.R 905 56,0 825
some minimum loads like 7x57
RWS HMK 172,3 R 907 46,0 750
KS 115 R 902 41,0 750

CastnBlast,

Did you get a chance to shoot your Brno 7x64 yet?
I got rained out Saturday.

I have owned a couple of those lovely little Brnos in both the model 21 (rifle) and the 22 (manlicher)..I don't know of a better made rifle that ever existed and that includes custom rifles...
The 7x64 is simply a 280 Rem. balistically, and thats no bad deal any way you cut it....

Hi Lee24
Yes I did shoot my Brno 21H rifle last week. I did not purchase the Lyman 2.5 power scope that was in the picture, Instead I installed a Leupold 6x compact since I had on hand and it fit the original Brno mount and rings with room for the bolt handle.
I shot some Hornady 162 gr. SST loads, and they grouped very well, around an inch or so without any special care on my part. I also found a part box of old RWS 11.5 G ( 177 grain) TIG ammo at the Calgary gun show. Now I want more! It grouped into a nice cloverleaf on both targets.
I found a few bags of cheap Remington brass at Wholesale sports in Saskatoon -looked like old stock, and only $20.00/50! I worked up a load with Speer 160 grain Mag Tips, 54 grains of IMR4831 and Remington 9-1/2's - they did not show any excess pressure signs but I have not put them over the chronograph nor have I done any proper bench rest target shooting yet. This is going to be a fun and useful rifle!

I took my the Brno 21H 7x64 Brenneke out this evening for a bit of load development.

I found that the RWS 177 grain factory loads are loaded to full potential - 177 grains at 2708 fps.

My handloads of 54 grains of IMR 4831 over a 160 Speer at 2580 FPS looked anemic by comparison. ( new Remington case, Remington 9-1/2 primer) Groups were nice, less than 1"

The Noser 160 Accubond must give a bit more resistance, with the same powder charge they were a little faster at 2605fps. groups opened up, about 1-3/4"

Hornady factory loads with 162 gr. sst measured 2660fps.

Here is a recipe from Brenneke:
177-gr RWS TIG bullet
56.6-gr Norma MRP
Norma brass
RWS 5333 primer
2,800 fps from 24-inch barrel

Now, to just obtain the bullets!
But it should be one to try with 175-gt Hornady RN and other American bullets.

In my 22F carbine, it will probably end up being a 139-gr bullet over N-140, or 160-gr Speer HP or Nosler Partition over N-160 (58.0 max = 2,2890 fps from 24-inch barrel).

Makes me keep shopping for a bargain on a 22 to 23 inch rifle!

I shot the 22F with Norma ammo, 150-gr spitzer flat base at 2887 fps list, about 2800 from the Brno. Boy, this ammo is hot! had been shooting a .270 that weighed less than 7 lbs right before this, and the Brno, close to 9 lbs with its claw mounts and 2-7x Hensoldt scope, had much more noticeable recoil.

i also have a mauser 66 in 7x64. i brought it back from germany with me. i used it to shot roe deer and pig. for some reason lighter weight bullets shoot better in it.
i used 120 gr. keigelspitz (sp?) factory rws ammo back then, and had just started to reload for it before i came back to the states.
it really liked 139gr btsp's, in front of 55.5 grains of imr 4350.
mine is different thatn yours tho, i have a cross bolt safety at the rear of the bolt shroud, not on the side as shown above, and my sling swivel is on the barrel, not in the forearm. it wears a straight 6x scope in claw mounts.
great keep sake with lots of memories.