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My youngster is expressing a hankering for a repeating shotgun. I started him out on a single-shot 20 gauge, and he's done quite well with that. Kind of hard to shoot the doubles in skeet, though (unless he gets a lot faster at reloading). I'm budgetally challenged, and I been looking over what Walmart has to offer. They have Winchester pumps in 20 ga. as low as $226. They have Rem. 870 Expresses for about $20 more. The Winchesters come with IC, M, F screw-in chokes. I couldn't really tell (and couldn't find anyone to talk to about it) if the cheap Remingtons have changeable chokes or whether you have to swap the barrels. Are the Remingtons better guns than the Winchesters? I've heard so. But I don't really know. Also they had a Charles Daly synthetic automatic for $299. Looked nice in the case, but I know nothing about these cheaper Charles Daly shotguns. Any knowledge of these? Thanks,

the 870 comes with a screw in modified choke. most of the bottom-end prices for these shotguns do not include any other chokes (some do, you will have to ask). <P>my 870 has been battered pretty bad...it has crawled through muddy corn fields, slithered across ice and snow, and got thrown from the truck in an accident. the gun performs now as it always has: flawlessly. the only drawback on the rem that i can think of is the weight, but i doubt that any pumpgun is really all that light.

Hey fellow Californian. Yes, Wal-Mart probably has the best deals. The 870 Remington is the most popular pump gun of all time, and for good reason. If you buy the Express version be warned it has a bead blasted blue finnish. It will rust easily. Keep it wiped down with a silicone rag and you'll be OK. A very reliable, rugged gun. I recommend them over all the others. E

Gentlemen: Thanks for the input. Much appreciated. Rex

Please don't rule out the Mossbergs. My wife and I have 3 of them. They are good guns and can be had for under $200 new.

BornAK, Both of my boys have Mossberg youth 5oo's in twenty gauge. We have been shooting hand trap for three years and having fun. This year my youngest wanted to shoot real skeet. He shot in the 13-18 range with the pump. I purchased a Remington 1100 Lt-youth 20 gauge several week back and his score increased to the 20-23 range. He was hitting the doubles 50% of the time with the pump. He now hits the doubles 90+% with the auto. He will still hunt with the pump rather than the auto. The pump is 3" chamber and I think the pump is safer for a 12 year old.

I saw a nice Charles Daly 20 gauge auto at the local Wal-Mart. I think the price was under $300. I bought my wife's 870 youth model there, and my model 500 also. They both came with imp. cyl., mod. and full choke tubes. The Mossy and the Winchester use the same tubes. In case you want a turkey extra full, you'll have to buy one elsewhere. <BR> [img]images/icons/crazy.gif" border="0[/img]

We went over this evening and did the paperwork on the 870 Express. We had to buy the display model, as they had no others. But it's in good shape. With the $25 rebate from Remington this was a little more expensive ($19) than the Mossberg 20 ga. The Mossberg looked like a lot of gun for $199.99, and I love the top-mounted safety, but the Remington seemed better balanced and a little nicer overall to both my son and me. I tried out the Winchester 1300 Ranger model, which had three choke tubes with it. I liked the feel quite a bit, but my son didn't like it as well and the Remington. One thing I didn't like with the Winchester was when I cycled the pump and it felt seated but when I brought it up it hadn't locked and the slide came back. That would have cost a bird. (Although I'll bet you'd get used to ramming the pump a bit harder.) I have to wait 10 days from tomorrow (we were too late for them to process the DROS today) before we can pick it up. I see Remington now offers a 20 ga. Upgrade Kit with improved cylinder and full chokes to complement the modified choke that comes with the gun and a choke wrench. The 10-day wait (can you believe California? I still have a very hard time believing this state.) will allow me to order the kit and get it here so the boy can have it to use. Then we head out for rabbit hunting a week from Sunday! Thanks for all the insights and advice, gentlemen, as always. It was very helpful.

I dont think youll regret buying the Remington but that aint why I responded to this post.<P>Are you saying that in California you have to wait 10 days to purchase a shotgun?

arkhunter: Yes, Sir. That's exactly what I mean. In their infinite wisdom our nanny-state government protects us against impulsive wanton acts, such as going out and shooting some clay pigeons. That way, we have 10 days (or 11 if you get in too late to have the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) phoned in in time) to see if you really do want to go out and shoot those birds. Unbelievable, huh? Sure does keep the guns out of the hands of the bad guys.