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I have a 9-year old A-Bolt II Medallion in .270 WCF that has behaved quite nicely. It seems that most of the folk here are less than impressed with this rifle. I�m not a �rifle loonie� by the standards of the Campfire, but I would probably qualify as at least �goofy�. I do most of my hunting and tinkering with handguns, and would qualify with honors as a �loonie� in that category.

Sooo, what�s the problem with the A-Bolt?

As a handgun loonie, I can appreciate the subjective as well as the objective so feel free to vent either.

My biggest complaint about my A-Bolt is the stock is so darn pretty I hate to use it. I�ve been toying with the idea of a McMillan, but maybe the money involved would be better spent elsewhere.

For what it�s worth: Left-handed action, Leupold 4-12x50mm AO with Leupold rings and bases. This rifle isn�t used real hard. It has about a 1,000 rounds through it � mostly wasp-waisted 130-grain soft points at plinkin� velocity (I only have 2,000 left�).

try boyds stocks for a laminate. cheap and nice to look at. might have to do some minor inletting for a lefty but what the hey...
woofer

yeah, why do browning bolts come in for such a reaming?

now, i don't own one, and don't like their looks. but a dear friend who owns one in 270 win with a syn stock wouldn't have anything else. it's got a b&l elite on it. he's dropped it 30 feet from a tree stand. it's been run over in its hard case by a car. it probably hasn't been cleaned in the 8 or so years he's owned it. he just keeps killing deer with year after year. my friend didn't like the boss, so he took it off.

it seems to me if a rifle can take a licking like that, it must not be TOO bad.
call me curious.

JOG

The A-bolt is my rifle of CHOICE <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> I got 2 30-06s, a hunter and a stainless. I just bought a .338 win syn. stalker and I'm trying to buy another 30-06 stainless. Can you tell I like the A-bolt and 30-06s <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mark

Africa '05!!!!!!

What is wrong with the A-Bolt??
Ask a large gunshop/gunsmith which model rifle they get back more then any another? Yep............you guessed right the Browning A-Bolt.
Breakage of parts and mechanical failure rate high with them.
Extractors falling off and bolts coming out of the rifles when working it backwards are just 2 of the more frequent problems. Here is as it was presented to me when I returned my friends A-bolt for the second time to the gunsmith.
The A-bolt is not produced with heavy serious shooting in mind. The A-bolt looks to many as a nice glossy gun, most shoot well or very well right out of the box. It caters to the hunter who may fire a box of shells a year at most and that is it. And in all fairness that is the bulk of hunters out there.
Use it for hundreds and thousands of rounds and most likely, things will go on it. Yes there are exeptions to the rule and indeed some board members have used A-bolts extensively without experiencing problems. However that is not the general rule.
If you are looking for sturdiness and reliability and durability, do not buy an A-Bolt.
Neither is the A-bolt known as an action of preference for custom gun makers to be used as a platform to build something special on. That should ring an alarm bell for someone who would be looking for better then average/mediocre.
At the peril of offending more people then I absolutely need to, I like to compare the A-bolt to the Remington 1100/11-87.
Good fitting good functioning guns, but never go hunting without a baggie of spare parts if you shoot a lot.
No compared to the Browning FN Safari rifle series, the A-Bolt
is a sad replacement. However it satisfies the "market".

when people ask me about A-bolts, I ask them "how many custom rifles have you seen built on an A-bolt action?" I have never seen one. typically, the customs are built on m98s, pre-64 70s (some current production crf) and model 700s. some smiths simply will not work on an A-bolt.

shrike

I would have to disagree. Having said that I know your "mileage may vary", but I've got a friend who has 2 A-bolts. Hes had them both for 10 plus year. The wood stock one looks like its been down 40 miles of bad road, behind the truck instead on inside it. You can't hardly tell it was once checkered <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> If Johnny can't break it, well it can't be broken and he don't own many things too look at. A truck or rifle is just a tool to him and in 10 years his A-bolts have done the job.

I on the other hand have had mine a lot less, but I shot mine a lot more than Johnny, and take a little better care of it. So far with no problems. I think its more of a ford vs chevy thing. BTW I drive a '99 dodge, 4x4, v-10, 488ci, 300hp, lwb and 11mpg <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />.

Mark

Africa '05!!!!!

Bob,

I know of more than one smith I wouldn't let touch my A-bolt. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I own 3 A-Bolts {pre-A-bolt II}, a Stainless .25/06, a Micro Medallion .257 Roberts and a Hunter .284 Win. I have absolutely nothing but praise for them. All mine will shoot around a half inch with preferred factory loads and I have never seen an A-Bolt that was not precisely accurate. I own plenty of Remingtons, Winchesters, Rugers, a Weatherby, a Howa, various commercial Mausers and several more exotic actioned bolt guns. None of them will outshoot my Brownings although some will match them. Just last week a fellow at the gun shop I work at asked me what brand rifle I'd buy if looking for an accurate .338. I instantly suggested the Browning because as I say, I've never seen an inaccurate A-Bolt. I've seen tack driving 70s, 700s & 77s {and own some} but I've also seen quite a few that wouldn't shoot up to snuff {and own a couple}. My A-Bolts shoot extremely well, as have all the ones owned by my comrads and I've sold dozens of them through the years and have never seen an inaccurate one, although I'm sure they exist.

Hey SCGunNut welcome to the campfire.



If you ever want to get rid of that A-bolt in .284win I'm interested.



Mark



Africa '05!!!!!

Those who diss the Browning's are owners of Remington's. Go figure. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I'll take a Browning any day.

JJHACK said that his clients have had the most problems with Browning ABOLTs.

I'll take american iron over jap crap any day.

I don't post much but I've lurked these forums for a while. Like to first say thanks for the info I have learned here.
Now, my experience with A-bolts. I have hunted with them for many years. My dad, 2 brothers, son and nephew also hunt with A-bolts. Some are A-bolts some are A-bolt II. All have been through some of the toughest weather the Colorado Rockies have to offer. Mine and my brothers hunt about 3 weeks per year. The others one week per year. They all are good shooters and none have ever malfunctioned or been to a shop for repair. They don't seem to kick as hard as some other rifles I've owned and hold their zero very well. We like them alot. My brother is going to buy one for his wife and I'm going to buy another just because. Sorry to hear others have had problems.

Dietz

Don't give me this "I'll take american iron over jap crap any day." You typed this on a computer didn't you? Do you own a car? Do you own a TV? Odds are at LEAST part of it was made over-seas! Hell, I ordered a new hunting jacket last week from Cabelas, when I got it last night the tag says "made in china". Sure I wish my A-Bolt was made here in the USA, but its not. Nether is some of the parts on my dodge truck or my wifes buick or my rca tv...... Good, bad or ugly its a world wide market.

The reason I own an A-bolt? First of all I've owned at LEAST, 4 remingtons, 4 winchesters, 1 or 2 rugers, 1 interarms mark x, 3 weatherbys and I've had 3 or 4 mild to full custom rifles built. Some time back I decided I wanted a new stainless rifle. I looked at the winchester, which was a bit heavy for what I had in mind. I looked at a sako, weatherby vanguard....I looked at having a custom built. In the end I decied I wanted a light weight stainless in 30-06 without spending $1000 or more, plus the cost of a scope. You see I want to go hunting, I want to go back to Africa, I want to go moose hunting, caribou hunting, bear hunting, antelope hunting........ to do all that I can't buy or build $1000 plus rifles. Thats when I bought my A-bolt. I got it used for $465, I put a used Leupold 2.5-8x36 scope on it and have a little over $800 in it. I took it to Africa in Sept. and spent the money I saved on trophy fees <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> My A-bolt is light weight, shoots great used and right out of the box. Unlike some rifles I've owned in the past. I like it so much last week I bought a hunter 30-06 used for $375 <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Nope, no more customs for me. I'll spend my money hunting, not on rifles and until something happens to change my mind I'll buy A-bolts! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

If it aint broke, don't fix it. if the a-bolt works for you, that's all that matters. still, I never have seen a custom (or semi-custom) rifle built on an a-bolt action.

well, this business about not seeing any custom rifles built on the a-bolt frame just does not carry water.
who wants a custom gun? guys who care deeply about the GUN, with all their many, varied predilictions for what a custom gun should be.
generally, these guys think "classic." a-bolt ain't no classic. hasn't been around long enough to qualify anyhow. guys who buy a-bolts are guys like mark - hunting's the thing, not gun-crankiness.
guys who buy a-bolts just do not give a rip about competition and industrial art where rifles are concerned.
now, i don't care for the a-bolt. it has an odd profile that - to my eyes - makes the savage 110 series look bee-yoo-ti-full.
but you know what? i betcha if a custom 'smith thought he could make a buck off a-bolt-based rifles, he'd do it. but there ain't no demand. a-bolt guys are happy with what they've got. no need to change a thang.

well ill throw my nickels worth in here. I dont own an a bolt never have. A good friend does in 338. we live in alaska an hes shot deer ,caribou,sheep,moose an black bear with it. Usually one shot one game animal. He loves it, never a problem an he reloads for it. I personnally dont like the shape of the action. I do however like a tang safty, i like the magizine system, the short bolt throw. Unlike many unless your always after dangerous game positive feed , three position safety, arent needed. If you like the a bolt more power to u.

Owned an A-bolt, will never own another. The trigger broke on the thing just below the stock right in the middle of hunting season. Shot very well but a rifle is hard to shoot without a trigger. I also wonder why a piece of potmetal crap costs so much. To top it all off, they look awful.

Chuck

Using that hi-grade US steel, the Rem 700 Ti could be joined by the 700 Taconite.

The Brownings are made by the same company in the same factory that makes Winchester guns in New Haven Conn. They have not been made over seas for some time.

As far as gunsmiths using the actions. This is a lot like making kits cars. They always seems to start on a VW chassis. Does that make the VW the best car in the world? It just means that porsch chassis and parts are too expensive .

Wrong. Miroku STILL makes them in Japan. The same place Citoris, BLRs, and BARs are made.

So you are saying that A-Bolt actions are to expensive to build custom rifles on? I hope that was sarcastic and meant to be funny.

Chuck

I think he meant they were poor enough,to not be a viable choice,at any price.

Or somethin' like that...................(grin)

I recently sold an Left-Handed A-Bolt II Stainless Stalker .338WinMag. I bought it in 1998 after searching high and low for a LH M70 Winchester in .338.

I put around 400-500 rounds through the rifle, all handloads, without any form of malfunction. The rifle would put 250gr Hornady Spire Points, and RNs under MOA with a 73gr charge of RL22.

There were several things I liked, and others I disliked, about that rifle.

Likes: It was accurate, MOA or better with just about anything. Short bolt lift gave miles of scope clearance, even with gloves. The safety locked the trigger, and the firing pin. The safety location on the tang was nice. The magazine had internal shoulders, which prevented bullet tip battering in the magazine. The removable magazine design functioned flawlessly. The bolt handle was integral with the rear part of the bolt body, rather than soldered on, couldn't fall off. The extractor is similar to a Winchester pushfeed M70, effective and sturdy. Overall lightweight rifle. No unsightly iron sights/sight mounting holes in the barrel. Nice balance. Excellent trigger pull. All three recoil lugs bear evenly when bolt is closed, apparently pretty square. A very nicely done recessed crown.

Dislikes: Too much aluminum. The trigger, triggerguard/floorplate, bolt shroud are all aluminum. The safety has to be completely disengaged to open the bolt. The rear action screw doesn't anchor into the receiver, rather, into a third piece, that is attached to the receiver, kind of mickeymouse. The rear receiver bolt doesn't even look very robust. The hot glue bedding is a joke. The recoil pad must be made of the hardest rubber compound known to man, an issue on a light .338WM. There is a hokey little rollpin that secures the cocked indicator to the firing pin(visible from the underside of the removed bolt), it is bent under the strain of normal usage, and looks like a potential point of failure. No aftermarket steel bottom metal available. Very limited quality aftermarket stocks, ie McMillan, available.

As many have said, I believe it is an overall serviceable design for most hunters. It leaves a lot to be desired though, for most rifle cranks/tinkerers/customizers.

I do not see another one in my future.

MM

Thanks - great post.

LOL, Hello, Ive owned my BrowningA-Bolt SS in a 270WSM for about 6 months now, had some guys at the range kinda snubing my A-Bolt (visibly) until they seem the groups I shot at 200yards (under 1inch) After seeing that everyone wanted one (even if its made in Japan) .. I can shoot 3 shot groups at 100yards in the same hole, (under a half inch) and the only action Ive ever seen that waz smoother was a Weatherby Alaskan 30-06, which is Titianum coated they only made it for 2 years 92 and 93 I believe. Anyway my Browning will suit me fine for many years of hunting.

I have two Browing A-Bolts one in 270 WSM and the other in 243. Both are very accurate with no problems. This is a Ford vs. Chevy debate, no one wins it's just a good pissing match!

I have A-Bolt II, lefty, 7mm rem mag, wood, no boss
have had it for about 5 or 6 years
never gave me any problems, most accurate out of the box rifle I ever shot.
wish it was 270win or 7mm-08 instead thou, more power than I need. that's why got a tiika lefty whitetail hunter in 7mm-08, I like that one but haven't used it much yet. it's shorter and kicks less the browning, I am keeping the browning for longer range deer hunting thou, it's a keeper.

being a righty that shoots lefty I like short turn bolts, and the A-bolt and tikka seem to fit my body just right

do I think the Abolt II is the best rifle ever made? probally not, mine has the bluing all wore off it on the handle already(well I have used it a lot in the 5 or 6 years) like others have said I am not so sure they are made to hunted hard with for 50 years. would I buy another? sure would

I owned one once. I think that Montana Marine has it pretty well figured out.

I think its pointless trying to poke holes at different rifles. Everyone has their own personal tastes, and if one brand works for you fine. But these are mass produced, bargain basement rifles.
To say your remington or winchester is better than my browning because you can get after market parts is like saying your Yugo is better than my chevette because you can get a spoiler put on it. Its still a Yugo.
You get what you pay for. Remington, winchester, and browning have all had occassional problems with quality control on certain rifles at one time or another. My brownings, winchesters, remingtons all are reliable. I've had a few problems with a few rifles, but thats life. You can't expect any different from mass produced rifles at low cost. If you want to go a level up, you'll have to shell out for a custom rifle. I don't have that kind of money, so I stick with these rifles, which more often than not, work just fine.

No offense, but what a load of crap. The after market parts I put on a rifle aren't just to make them look "cool", they are put there for function purposes. In fact, most people wouldn't even know that they were after market parts. Do yourself a favour and talk to a knowledgeable riflesmith about what goes into the action (remington or winchester) of a custom rifle to improve reliability and function. It may suprise you.



The Browning is an overpriced piece of cast aluminum that is awfully ugly to boot. Most would do themselves a favour and buy a winchester (my choice), find a reliable/competent gunsmith and as you can afford it turn it into something more. Or buy a browning like I did and when you decide it isn't all its cracked up to be sell it for half of what you paid for it and buy something that could be eventually used for a custom rifle.



Chuck

But if the gun already shoots 1 MOA why do you need a gunsmith to turn it into anything? My Brownings shoot 1 MOA at one hundred yards consistantly. What else can you ask for out of the box? I don't think Brownings are ugly at all and they function with out any problems. Everyone has their preferences but that's all it is, a preference.

There is much more to the function of a rifle than accuracy. Unfortunately, that is the extent of most peoples acceptable qualifications of a quality firearm.

Chuck

Oh brother, and all I did was qualify for Camp Perry...damn. I don't know a thing about rifles...

Originally posted by lettman:



"But if the gun already shoots 1 MOA why do you need a gunsmith to turn it into anything?"



What exactly does that mean?



Chuck

Abolts are more fragil than remingtons, winchesters and rugers. I also heard that the abolts have many more parts than other rifles, this makes them tend break more frequently. I would rather sacrifice a little accuracy for increased reliablity, though you don't have to.

A large part of an abolt is aluminum which can break a lot easier than steel. How accurate would your abolt be if you have hiked for 5 days hunting for elk and accidently break your abolt so it does not have a trigger. One of the guys on this web site had this happen in Africa. JJHack told me that while he has guided hunters the vast majority of rifle failures were abolts.

I posted earlier that I had the trigger on my A-Bolt break right in the middle of hunting season. Pretty much ground it to a halt. This rifle could also shoot 1.5" groups at 300Mtrs. all day long. Not worth the trade off and it now resides in someone elses safe.

Chuck

This is ford vs chevy, guys <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> thats why I drive a DODGE <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> and own 3 A-bolts <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I own some nice Remingtons, Winchesters, Rugers, and Browning A-"Bolt.
To make the Remingtons, Winchesters and Rugers shoot they all needed trigger jobs, and bedding, the Browning didn't. need anything
To make the Winchesters, Remingtons, and Rugers accurate they all needed extensive work with reloads, all the Browning needed was the BOSS tuned.
I've had the soldered bolt handle break off the SUCKs rifle along with some safety problems, the extractor failed on my control feed Model 70, the Ruger and Browning are the only two I've road hard and put away wet that still function flawlessly.
Custom rifles are like BMW and Jag's, they look pretty, are fast, and are great for the people needing for some ego, but it still takes the same amount time for me to drive them to work as it does my F150
Buy the rifle that gets you excited, and does the job you want it to do, if it's a Browning, so be it, if it's something else, well that's the great thing about living where we do, we have choices.
Now for the person who complained about the resale of a 'Browning, I'll bet the resale is better than most other brands and one hell of a lot better than those big dollar customs. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Depends on how big dollar those customs are.

Chuck

First let me say....for the most part...what a load of manure. Save it for the garden. I had to register just to respond. This is just the same old debate thing..."it's no good cause I dont like it" I read the whole thread and I don't know anymore than when I started. One or two objective posts from guys with experience and a bunch of opinions. I've never owned an abolt. Would I buy one...damnright I would. There light and they have a clip....two features I like. I get tired of fumbling with a handful of shells from my Ruger's floorplate in the dark, standing in a foot of snow with numb fingers. Do I love my Ruger...sure do but I wish it had a clip and was lighter. If you never had an abolt...your opinion is just that....no experience to relay. I have owned a bunch of other Brownings....never had a lick of trouble with any of them.....matter of fact...same goes for my Remingtons and Rugers and so on.... If your mind is made up....you shouldn't let yourself be confused by facts... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Glock29,

Welcome aboard <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> even though my Sig 245 is better <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Just kinding!!

"I'll bet the resale is better than most other brands and one hell of a lot better than those big dollar customs" You're damn right!! I just sold a custom made Model 70, I got about half the money I spent on it back when I sold it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> I've had a few customs built over the years but I don't plan to ever do that again. FOR ME its a waste of money!! I've shot deer with a used factory rifle, I give $300 for and a custom, I spent $1500 on. Both were just as dead, the only thing diffence was my wallet, by $1200. No thanks, no more cutsoms for me. I'll spend my money on airfare and trophy fees <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Now, I''m off to the range, its A-Bolt time.

Mark

"TEAM A-BOLT"

Africa '05!!!!!!!

This is what bothers me.

"I can appreciate the subjective as well as the objective so feel free to vent either."

This is a line posted in the original question. On these forums many people ask questions while asking for answers and opinions. Yet when they arrive well.......

I vented, and here is why. Factory rifles, IMO, leave a lot to be desired simply because Joe Q Public get weak in the knees if the price tag on a new rifle exceeds $1000 (I am talking CDN money here?). So gun manufacturers spend money developing new cartridges to attract new buyers to add to their gun cabinets. Heaven forbid they spend a little money developing a magazine box that might assist feeding, charge $50 dollars more to supply a glass bedded rifle, or maybe they could at least drill the holes in the reciever of the rifle that resembeled something straight and square.

I paid more for the Browning that I owned than a comparable Remington, Winchester, or Ruger. Just what did I get for that extra money?

I tend to take my guns and hunting fairly seriously and my fingers aren't typing in a screaming or abrasive manner. I'm just trying to get my points and experiences across (someone did ask). Unfortunately, with Brownings, they were bad.

Chuck

P.S. I've been stung on custom rifles as well. Maybe we could hash out that topic another day. Tomorrow? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Don't own an A-bolt, and don't plan to. Had an old FN action Safari grade Browning I stupidly traded off, but the A-bolt action is too homely for me, while at the same time wearing a glossy stock dolled up like a cheap hooker. That said, as far as function goes, I have two examples:

1) My best friend and usual hunting partner has used a .30-06 A-bolt for at least ten years now with excellent results. The rifle shot MOA with factory ammo out of the box, and actually had a good factory trigger. We've hunted together from the south Louisiana swamps to west Texas, New Mexico, and above timberline in Idaho, and the Browning stayed zeroed. That glossy stock isn't very glossy anymore, but the thing works. Its owner isn't a gun fanatic, he just loves that rifle. I wouldn't want it, but you can't knock the record.
2) When my 12 year old son went to hunting summer camp at the YO Ranch this summer, the rifles they issued the kids were .243 A-bolts with Kahles scopes (provided by Browning and Kahles as part of some promotion). I asked the guides about problems (figuring kids can break anything if they try) and they said they had had no problems in the two years they have been using them.
I'll stick with Model 70s and commercial 98s, but I suspect this may really be a Ford/Chevy deal.

I love this post because I always thought the same thing about the hard time the A-bolt has got on this forum. I have a A-bolt that I selected after handling and checking out many guns that are production run. I must say that I am very happy with the gun. A 300WSM hunter with a 1 inch decelleration pad shoots 5/8" groups. Light weight, short bolt lift, adjustable trigger, detachable magazine, and durable matte finish decided the choice for me. I see no need to have a gunsmith touch the gun, but will admit that the trigger is kind of funky in that it seems fragile. I just keep in mind that it is turned down to 2.5lbs and it doesn't take much pressure to fire a round. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Some like brunettes, some like blonds, I got a redhead to live with <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />!

I just bought another one, that makes three! I hate rifles that can put rounds in the ten ring all day long out of the box, they suck! Oh yeah, I bought a Stainless Stalker.

I had a custom rifle built on a Mauser 98 action with a Shilen barrel, Timney trigger and Fajen stock. It was a 7x57 Mauser with a 26 inch barrel. It shot excellent, but no better than the Brownings right out of the box with nothing done to them. I guess if you like running back and forth to a gunsmith and giving someone else your money then to each his own!

Hello all,
just thought that i would throw a little gas on the fire. i have 5 browning a-bolt II rifles of various calibers. two of them are fully customized. so yes you can customize them all you need is a gunsmith who will listen to your ideas and then improve on them. the first rifle i ever purchased with my own money was a 7mm magnum it is 7 years old and has been out west on three ocassions. it was dropped about 18 feet down a hill when my 4 wheeler tipped over climbing the side of a snow covered mountain after i got all the snow and dirt out of it i took it back to the guides range fired it three times and the zero never changed and all three shoots were touching at 100 yards. the rifle still functions flawlessly. as for me i will stick with my brownings they have been used under extremely adverse conditions and i have yet to have one fail. this post is not meant to say that brownings are better than any other rifle, they have served me well and would i buy another? in a minute.....

This has been an interesting thread � thanks to all that pitched in.

I suppose my opinion is pretty much in the same place as when we started � I don�t understand all the A-Bolt bashing. These have been legitimate questions raised about the quality of some parts and subjective opinions about the rifle�s looks, but all in all similar criticisms apply to other rifles as well.

In spite of the criticisms, not one person has complained about the A-Bolts accuracy. This type of consistency is not an accident, and definitely not a result of a bunch of Japanese pot metal shaken together in a bag. The Browning folks have some skills and to say otherwise would be a slight to all the gunsmiths that make accurate rifles out of inaccurate pieces.

While there are definitely fewer options in customizing an A-Bolt, a quick search shows that Pac-Nor and Shilen both make barrels, McMillan makes both hunter and varmint stocks, Moyers makes a stainless steel trigger, and replacement springs are available all over. A skilled gunsmith would still need to fit and tune the rifle and I really doubt I would have trouble locating one.

Part of the satisfaction of a custom rifle is that it�s custom: different and improved. If it�s true that there a very few custom A-Bolts out there, well then more power to me. I will probably have a custom A-Bolt built, but not on the Medallion I currently own. Contrary to remarks about a poor resale value, A-Bolts hold their value very well around here - much better than Winchester or Remington. I�ll either sell my Medallion to fund a Hunter/Stalker donor or buy one outright. I�ll come out further ahead money-wise.

'Tis your project and you are the only one that has gotta believe that stuff.

More power to you...............

don't know where you're from, but here in alabama also the a-bolts maintain better value than anything else of off-the-rack nature.
folks around here buy 'em, like 'em and mostly keep 'em, i guess 'cause they ...

keep killing deer
year after year

(how'd y'all like that couplet?)

There simply isn't another modern boltgun that is absolutely shunned by routinely superlative 'Smiths. That should(and do) speak volumes.

It is an often read tidbit on the shingle of many,that they simply won't work on the A-Bolts period.

A quick glance through GunList fails to drive the point of high resale value home.

They is what they is and if they yank your crank,so be it................

I've owned one and had no problems with it. Kind of an impulse buy. Very accurate and trouble free.
But I never could get use to that glossy stock. Nice crisp trigger but could'nt adjust it under 5#'s.
Browning has a few screwed up twist rates. On my 260 it was 1 in 11. Don't know where they came up with that.
I know from trading mine in and going over the book values they don't hold their value any better or worse than Remchester.

Big Stick,

If you're right, it won't be the first time delusions have emptied my pockets. Fortunately, an A-Bolt project is far enough down the list that I still have time to come to my senses.

So far, I've never had an internet firearms transaction. I have a tough time buying sight-unseen. We have a lot of gunshows here though and I do most of my business at them. Brownings hold their value well.

That said, the Campfire "Free Classifieds" will likely bite into me before long. There have been some excellent deals in the short time I've been here.

FVA - Well looky here, you ole hunt thievin sodbuster!! Saw that picture of ya t'other day. Good thing there was a shadow on your face, because I could print it out and tell everybody it's me!!

BTW, you can get an A-bolt in stainless with a synthetic stock, matching matte gray finish Leupold glass and she looks pretty good.

Regards, sse

I wasn't trying to bust your balls or piss in the punch. My point was simple: If you have faith in the action,then that is a very large part of the equation that can't be purchased.

The flipside is that certain things work very well and routinely demonstrate a superb end result. When setting by with a box of loot burning a hole in your pocket,keen research is never a poor idea,regardless of the confidence level. That despite the consensus not being music to your ears.

I don't employ tact often,but that were the best I could muster as those keys are rusty(grin)..................

�I can�t fricken� believe a dumbazz still breaths that would climb over a pile of proven designs to plunk hard-earned cash on question mark. Give yourself a good slap, ya moron�

I figure the tact-free version would go something like that. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

My gunsmith could careless what you bring in to be worked on as long as you pay him before you leave with it! He definetly qualifies as Superlative! I don't understand why you would want to build a custom rifle when the rifle can shoot that well out of the box <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> It must be me <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I can think of quite a few.

Chuck

I knew you would be around Chuck.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Chuck

sse- you flatter yourself that you could pull it off.

I did good on the sale of my stainless stalker .338 lefty.



Bought it for $670 in 1998. Unloaded it real fast for $600 a couple months ago with Leupy std rings/bases.



MM

How can you sleep at night,doing that to someone?.............(grin)

I think the main reason is the fact that the thread diameter of the A-bolt is 7/8 x 14 or (16). Ruger, Winchester, Mauser all have 1", followed by Remington at 1 1/16". The Browning having the least metal of them all. Less metal to work with when single pointing the threads.

GB

I guess it's true what they say,

One man's trash is another man's treasure

MM <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Laffin' here...............

Lets see, Aluminum triggergaurd and floorplate, potmetal 2 piece trigger, scope mounting holes drilled off the centerline of the action, bolt that opens if you catch it on a branch while walking in the thick stuff(with the safety on), piss poor extractor instalation, chambers reamed off center, need I go on. Yea, I talking about a Sucks action. Know why there are so many aftermarket parts for a Rem, cause you need them to make the rifle to shoot accurately and last!!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



And to think I just bought a new 700SPS. Well McMillan and Jewell will be hearing from me in the near future <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I guess I got the corner on the "fluke" market and got the Good Un's that slipped through the cracks?

Though I am of the ADL Establishment............

Standby Stick, somebody will come along and trash Winchesters next. It's just the way these threads go. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Reading this has almost been enough to make pull my old Stainless Stalker out of the gun cabinet, and give it a big hug. Nah, it's too dusty and I'd have to move too many other rifles out of the way. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Like anything,there are two sides to the story. I know what I like and why,if only because I've owned most all of 'em.

Sheesh...some even think the 30-'06 is of merit...............(grin)

Ouch, please don't publicly bash my lovechild. My nerves can't take it, and I cannot afford a therapist just now.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



MM

Here is my story FWIW. I have a 22-250 and a 270 Stalker. I really like these guns. My favorite thing about my Brownings is how they function. I have handled my dad's Rem700 and I didn't like the feel of it at all. I have handled a Ruger Mk 77.........I like the feel of it better, but not as much as my rifles. I have honestly never handled a Winchester so I can't comment on them. I recently shot a Tikka and didn't like it that much either. Now I am talking about feel. My Brownings don't shoot as good as some of yalls sound like they do, but they are 1" at 100 w/ factory stuff. I had the triggers worked on (which I later realized I could have done) and they are both bedded. I know others with these guns and they like them too.

I have no problems with my 2 rifles........otherwise I wouldn't have them anymore!

Oh, and I think they look pretty darn good too.

My .02

To MontanaMarine and all other Vets, We owe you our thanks and grattitude for the sacrafices you have made to secure our freedom.



Have a good Vetrans day!



Al Walewski, USAF 1972~1979

back at ya Al!

MM

FVA - That was the idea, but for the surroundings, not for your physique. You weren't standing in front of a wall mural at the shopping mall were you??!!

sse

I remembered after my original post that I did have a Browning break on me once. Your post reminded me to admit this to the board. I snapped my BAR in half after doing a double forward 360 with a sukkow on a 3 wheeler. The Redfield scope was no good for looking at deer either but it did make a good mirror in it's u-shaped figure. The ordeal scored an 8.4 and I walked away...well limped. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Anyway....that's the only shooter I ever broke of any brand. Hoped you walked away from yours...LOL <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

this is actually the Ford, Chevy, Toyota argument

my A-bolts have served me quite well, and I appreciate aluminum and pot metal when I climb a couple thousand feet looking for an elk or somesuch

they've hit the dirt alongside me many times when I've landed on my butt in the steep stuff, and I have yet to break that trigger guard or whatever else there was a complaint about above

they're relatively lightweight, accurate, and I've never had a malfunction

the accuracy a lot of owners mention should tell you something about design and manufacturing tolerances

I have heard that the customization argument does relate to cost of the actions. I've seen pricing for customization of A-bolts, and those setups run $1-200 more than Remingtons. Remington brought the 700 action out partly because it was cheaper to build than earlier designs, and every gunsmith out there knows how to put a new trigger, stock, etc. on the thing and give it back to you for a warm fuzzy that you now own a custom gun. I think A-bolt buyers want something that works without fussing with it.

Are they the only guns that I own and think are good? No, but they're a fine rifle and I have no hesitation recommending them.

Toyotas seem to sell pretty well, and that's for a reason. I expect A-bolts will also continue to sell pretty well.

the A-bolt haters can carry what they like, and diss my rifles if they like, I'll just keep killing stuff with them

I found the following from the Rifle Shooter Web site:

"The rifle I used in the hunt described was a Browning A-Bolt II Classic. Its virtues are pleasant appearance, light weight, fast bolt cycling, good trigger and fine accuracy. So what more is there? Well it is made the newfangled way, which means a bolt which is a collection of little pins, sleeves, wire and hollow stampings. Not very confidence inspiring if you�ve had the misfortune of trying to disassemble (and reassemble) the bolt. And adding some plastic here and there doesn't help the traditional-minded amongst us fall in love. It's a good rifle, but I've gone elsewhere lately."

This is basically what I have heard about the Abolts. They are overly complex and intricate. This make the ABOLT likely to break when you use it a lot or the conditions are difficult.

I had 3 A-Bolts at one time. The first was a synthetic stocked version in '06 which I bought in 1989. I think I killed 5 muleys and 2 bears with it. Used it in sub zero weather on a mos long hunt and never had trouble with it. It was one of the most accurate and non-fussy '06s I ever owned too. I also had the first SS version in 7RM, killed a couple elk, a couple muleys, an antelope and a big bear with it. The third A Bolt was a synthetic stalker in 223 with a Leupold 3-9. The thing would put 55gr BTs in a dime. Killed a ton of coyotes with it, one A.M. I racked up 5 coyotes with it while cruising some dirt roads.



Later after joining the VHA, I learned the Remingtons were where its at so I sold all my A-Bolts. I never had a failure with A Bolts nor broke anything. All of them had rough bores and the CM barrels had pits in em, probably from hunting in the rain and snow.



MtnHtr

What about a BBR in 22-250 does that come close enough or count.

Seems to run as well or better than my REM 700 in 22-250. I kinda like the flush pachmyer sling studs and short throw bolt. Extractor seems to work better and more positive than the REM. Safety locks the bolt just like my '66 REM 700. Not sure yet whether I like the nine locking lugs but the bolt sure is smooth. No sights or sight holes on the barrel like it should be. Mag clip works good and doesn't dump shells on the ground when unloading like the REM. Chamber and neck are dimensionally correct and tight unlike many competitors.
Nice fit and finish and with no raised cheek or monte carlo buttstock. Glass smooth bore so almost no powder or copper fouling. I kinda like it and I have not seen another like it.

TxT

Killed a 9 foot brown bear on Kodiak Island in 1974 with a 338 win mag with a 225 gr. Silver tip Winchester bullet. One shot in lower part of the hump, he instantly went stiff on his feet and tumbled over, just lifted his head for a second and died. I recovered the bullet just inside the hide on the opposite side, a perfect mushroom. Loved those bullet. Never had to shoot twice on a moose, literally would stop them in their tracks and looked like they were dead before they hit the ground. Wish I would have bought several boxes for longevity because they were an awesome bullet. Clean, fast and instant kills even better than partitions.

I will not buy any rifle that is not a a browning. I have 1 abolt and 2 xbolts and 1 Bar. The bar I just got. I've had remington, sako, weatherby, winchester and had problems with every one of them. Browning's never. Never 1 problem. Ejection is flawless, bolt is smooth as glass, very accurate, free floated and bedded barrel, 60 degree bolt lift, bolt unlock button, tang safety, triggers may not be 2 1/2 pounds more like 3 1/2 but 0 travel and crisp. I use them for hunting not target shooting. I've been shooting rifles for 48 years and would never buy anything but a browning.

Adams.

This thread is over 20 years old....

I would join in and restart the old debate. I’m a Browning fan. I have the original Abolt, Abolt II and now the X-bolts. I have had flawless service and would be more than happy to purchase another when it’s time for another rifle.

I understand everyone has their opinions but likes it’s been said many times, it’s purely opinion. I believe all can have lemons.

A-Bolts are good guns and haven't got what I consider a bad one yet. None of the 5 that I own will consistently shoot a 3/4" moa group even with aftermarket triggers.

20 years later, and Browning rifles still get no love from the loonies, but lot'sa love from the pure hunters.

I've got a couple of A-bolt slug guns. Each one works great. But that is the limit of my experience with A-bolts.

I've got three X-bolts. I added a fourth for my wife who is a lefty and needed a rifle when she decided to give deer hunting a try. There are not a lot of lefty rifle options available. I ended up buying her a left-hand X-bolt in 6.5 Creedmoor because it was one of the few lefty options I could get my hands on, and I was confident Browning would be good. I made a good choice. The X-bolt is a good looking rifle which handles well and shoots multiple factory loads sub-MOA right out of the box. I like the short bolt throw and the redundancy of the 4-screws-per-scope-ring-base. The wood looks really nice, too. And, it is accurate without any tweaking. It is a great rifle choice for anyone who wants to buy a rifle, sight it in, and go hunt without any drama or intrigue.









(I know the second and third groups shown measure to the exact same number, but I double checked them and both measurements are correct)

I’ve been through a lot of rifles, Win, rem, savage, marlin, tikka, Howa, weatherby vanguard and mk5, Mauser 98s. The abolt 2 has served me as well or better than all the rest for hunting. Accuracy has been fine, function has been fine feel and balance is fine. I’m not shooting them in a match but if I need to kill a deer, hog, coyote, it does great. I’m not hunting in salty, wet environments below freezing. Mississippi gets wet and sometimes single digits and it’s never been a problem. Are there better mechanics in certain guns with better coal latitudes, twist rates, and triggers. Sure but the abolt has always gotten it done hunting. Had a 7mag I shot out and ITD put a new 257 weatherby barrel on it and a stainless 243 that works just fine as of a couple weeks ago.

Friends don't let friends shoot Aborts...

Said it before and I'll say it again, I think the A-Bolt II was the pinnacle of A-Bolt design (mine is a '96 model .25-06).

In '96, off the shelf, I'd have put it against anything else out there in its price class. It still ain't too shabby:).

Mine also. Have a Abolt II medallion in 7mag with the BOSS system. Still the queen of my safe. Bolt is as slick as both my tikkas.