Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Question for Phil Shoemaker on handguns for Alaska

Phil,
I just re-read your great article in the June 2003 Handloader, "Handguns and Bears." In the article you mention using various Smith & Wesson revolvers, including a Model 629 Mountain Gun.

What are, and your family, using these days for handguns? Have you tried, or use, the new 329PD?

I'm looking at buying either a 329PD or Mountain Gun and am torn between the light portability of the 329PD versus the heavier, yet more controllable (and possibly durable) Mountain Gun.

Any insights would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Bret

I'm not Phil, but I'll throw my $.02 in anyway - Have you shot either? I have a 629 Mountain Gun and it's pretty brisk with full power loads. I'd have to loose a pretty big bet before I'd let loose a cylinder full of balls to the wall loads from a 329.

I believe Phil had even settled on a slightly less than than full throttle load from his MG in the article. There is such a thing as too light in my book. The MG is already on the edge and the 329 is way over the top, in my book.

The 329 is absolutely PAINFUL to shoot with fullhouse loads and I can't see how any reasonable accuracy could be obtained (or any reasonable practiced proficiency could be acquired) with it, and barely controllable/comfortable with .44 Special loads.

Unless you are SERIOUSLY into very, very heavy recoil handguns, I wouldn't even think twice about the 329.

What is your And others opinion of the 480 Ruger... as Bear Defense and in general?

Just dumped the Ti Taurus a couple of weeks ago! Hard cast at 12/1300 not to bad, but full house very nasty. This was revolver with the ports. The torque on that thing was terrific.

Definitely no control for second shot at close range. Most of that due to the squeegee grips, which by the way will also rip skin from your palm side.

The blast from the ports was worse than the recoil with the heavier loads.

If you want the best in a handgun for Bear protection I would recomend at least a 45 Colt and 325 to 335 grain bullets at 1200 Plus FPS. The 475 & 500 linebaugh as well as the 500 JRH are even better.


In 88 the 475 Linebaugh proved itself on an Artic Grizzly that came in while I was working on a Moose kill and it literaly flattened that bear..

Check this out a man in Montana killed a Grizz after the bear had mauled him and returned for a secounf time. The mand was shooting a 41 Mag with 240 grain bullets according to the article.

http://bozemandailychronicle.com/articles/2003/07/03/news/02maulingbzbigs.txt

400 grain flat point hard cast out of the 480 at 1200 FPS would be outstanding....

Didn't Phil mention that his daughter carries a .357 Magnum or am I misremembering that?

John Linebaugh carries a model 25 in 45 colt with 300 grain hardcast at around 950 FPS as his bumming around the woods load.

http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm

You should, too.

Or, just get a Redhawk in 45 colt, and shoot same at 1,250 FPS without fear of anything that walks

That's what the article said....

I own a Rdhawk, and i have shot some hot loads thru it, darn fine revolver, i sold my SRH because the RedHawk did everything I needed. Les

I've shot a regular 629 with a 4" barrel with both 44 Special cowboy loads and full house 240 gr factory loads. Didn't have problems with either, but would anticipate that with either a 329PD or a Mountain Gun I would handload a 250 cast bullet to something less than full speed (with a 329PD being loaded even lighter, something along the lines of the loads that Brian Pearce had in Handloader 251, Feb-Mar 2009). I both handload and cast, so the loads I use are not limited to factory loads but could be tailored to the use and to the gun.

The Ruger Redhawk "Alaskan" looks about perfect for the job.

If you underestimate the 329, it will make you pay. I know this because as I type there is a 3/8" scar on my trigger finger from where the front end of the 329's trigger guard split my finger open during recoil. Load was a factory 240. I've since shot the 329 a bit with 300gr cast loads at 1000fps and it is a great gun. But it is a specialist's weapon and unless you are willing to invest the time it takes to become proficient you are better off with a the new 4" 45 Colt Redhawk.

I can't speak to killing grizzlies or to the 329, but I have owned a 629 Mountain Gun for years and put a bunch of rounds through it.

With hot loads, it'll get your attention but it's not unmanageable by any stretch. The rubber grip does stress my skin in the web area of my thumb. It gets red and sore after a while.

With 44 SP loads, the gun is a pussycat to shoot.

You might PM BMT here on the 'fire. I've seen him work his 629 MG, and it's pretty amazing.

Neat pistols. How effective on grizzlies, I have no idea and hope to never find out! I bought mine as a camping pistol but the bears around here are a lot smaller than that.

-jeff

The article didn't state it, but I wonder if the man were carrying a single action or double action .41 Mag.?

No matter, he, and it, did the job.

L.W.

JWP,
What are your thoughts on the .41 with heavier bullets; 240 grain softpoints and hard cast 250 grains and up?

Expat

The 41 mag with either the 230 or 265 grain flat point hard cast loaded the way Buffalo Bore loads them would make the 41 as high on the food chain as a 41 can be.. I have been shooting these in my 41 4" S&W and they certainly increase the penetration of the 41. These would definately be my choice in the 41 Mag.
The only problem is that the 265 grains shoot higher than the 210s or 230s and must be resighted for them.

I'm not a gunwriter or an expert on these matters. I have a .480 Ruger in a 5" RB that I bought before the first time I went to AK to carry against the highly unlikely chance I would have to do battle with a large bear. I stoked it with Beartooth Bullets 420gr WFNGC near 1200fps, load was later slightly reduced due to primer pockets that got a bit loose after few firings. The 1200fps loads where reliable but I did not notice the loose primer pockets right away as I was working my way through lots of new brass. The obstacle I see with the 329 is that I think you would have to be REAL careful about full power heavy bullet loads, the kind you might be wanting to use. That 5" RB is a bullet puller, you have to pay real close attention to expander plug diameter and the crimp you apply. I can't imagine a 329 with full house heavy bullet loads not locking up the cylinder. If you want full power I'd go with something a bit heavier.

Is this the article where he indicated a 22 Magnum with FMJ's was suitable as it penetrated well?

He seemed to feel that only CNS hits were going to matter.

IIRC he indicated he carried a 357 with Norma steel jacketed 180's for several years.

Apparently he got a Mountain gun when his daughter needed something to carry.

I can't get too excited about carrying a pistol I can't manage to shoot double action with my weak side hand. That 3229 PD would work but a 250 grainer at 1000-1100 is all I think I could manage and maybe not that.

I carry my 357 Titanium Tracker loaded with 180's right at 1100 fps. I believe that is enough for most uses. When I feel that's not enough I will carry a Deerslayer with Brenneke's or a centerfire rifle.

I have a 45 Colt Bisley that I could use too I suppose. I like 250/270's at 100 out of that a lot better than 300's at 1300 too.