Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Winchester Supreme 780 report

Well, I finally tried some of this new Winchester powder in my 270. Had hoped it would be a good replacement for the discontinued H450 which gives excellent accuracy and about 3070 fps with a max load of 60 gr under a 130 partition in my Win fwt. ( 22 in bbl ). Accuracy was ok with the 780 giving 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 in. groups (windy Vermont spring day) but velocity was disappointing averaging only 2871 fps with a max load of 60 gr as recommended by Hodgdon. H4831sc did slightly better with 60 gr averaging 2910 fps. Now I know that no Vermont or NH whitetail will know the 200 fps difference when whacked by a partition in the right place, but my wife and I hunt Wyoming whenever possible and would like the slightly flatter trajectory of over 3000 fps. No pressure signs at 60 gr, so anyone think I'm safe in trying 61 or 62 gr? Thanks.

Hi buddy, did you ever give 760 a try ? I used it my 30-06 with Hornady 180's and shot groups under an inch. 54grs max load with a CCI 250 primer should get you up to 3000.

Ken

Safe or not, I don't think adding a grain or two of powder is going to get you where you want to be. Are you married to using 780?

I would work up a couple grains and I think you have a very good chance of getting where you want to be , both speed wise and accuracy wise.......have seen groups tighten when you closely approach max many times .

From looking at Hodgdon data it appears that 780 should be a bit slower than H4831 , I'm looking to give it a go in my 30 wsm.

"so anyone think I'm safe in trying 61 or 62 gr?"


I don't think that I would ask just "anyone"!


You may (or not) get a little more speed with IMR 7828, RL-22 , RL-25, H-1000 or any other powder in that same speed range that you can find data for.

Be safe
8mmwapiti

No Whttail, I'm not married to 780 but I prefer ball powders, and I like the near 100% loading density that H450 has given me in the 270 with 130 gr bullets. Ken- I do like 760 and use it in the 308, 243, and 30-06, but I've never gotten top velocity in the 270 and a max load ( as I recall is 53-54 gr ) doesn't nearly fill the case.
Ah the endless quest for the perfect load!

If the 780 doesn't work out, how about Ramshot Magnum? I've tried Hunter but not Magnum. Hunter gave velocities I expected out of the 270 but I think you'd be disappointed in the load density. So Magnum may be an option if you haven't already tried it.

Just my opinion, but I'm gun shy of developing loads with Winchester's powder that's slower than 760; I've done it with two previous versions only to have it discontinued shortly thereafter. Hopefully that trend has ended with Hodgdon's ownership. Best of luck with whichever path you decide to take.

I'm using 63gr of H4831sc with 130 NPs.
3180fps from 23" Steyr barrel. I use a 4" drop tube, no compression. One inch and less groups.

The slow WW ball powders perform optimally under pretty high pressures. So long as I was NOT compressing the powder, I would continue to work up the load.
You should be using a mag primer, as this contributes toward getting into the optimal pressure range and resulting efficient burn.
I was a real fan of the old 785, going thru at least 2 kegs plus some. It produced an excellent combination of accuracy & velocity, right where a 270 is supposed to be. I still have a few of those loads that I use for cross referencing new stuff.
I was never able to get the WMR powder up to the level I wanted.
Now using RL22, and am delighted with the results.

Get yourself a lb of Accurate Magpro and take A LOOK AT THEIR DATA. You may be pleasantly surprised.

270guy,

Nosler shows W760 as producing the highest velocity of all the powders tried in their #6 Reloading Guide. 54.0 gr gave 3,158 fps from a 24" barrel at 88% load density.

jim

Get some RL-22 and forget the rest.............you'll live happily ever after.

When I can get it Norma MRP functions & loads same/same as RL-22 with the advantages of better temp stability and flowability.

MM

I will second trying Magpro in the .270. I have now tried it in 2 .270s and it is accruate and very fast in this caliber.

Lou

What kind of FPS for 130's & 150's, Lou?

MM

I have only tried Magpro with 130s:

.270 24" Barrel (avg 3 shots):

60 gr 2929 fps
63 gr 3100 fps
65 gr 3228 fps

.270 22" Barrel (avg 3 shots):

61 gr 2998 fps
63 gr 3083 fps
65 gr 3258 fps

I would probably stop at 63 gr in second .270. I suspect the max (65 gr) load is hot in the 22" barrel as this is a bit higher than book velocity out of 24" barrel though I experienced no signs of high pressure (and have loaded the cases again with no loose primer pockets). Incidentally avg group size of 6 loads above was 1.04" and this was probably edged up by the fact my Rem TI likes to put 2 in 1 hole and 3rd a bit away.

Lou

Thanks.........I've not tried MagPro yet.

That's fairly similar to what I get with RL-22.

60.7 gr gets me 3150-3180 depending on the gun.

58.5 gr gets me 2950-2975 with 150 grain bullets.

MM

200 fps won't make a bit of difference in WY either!!

My pre-64 loves IMR 4831 with 130 and 150 grain Partitions. Great accuracy and close to 3200 fps with the 130s.

The 270 is one of the easiest rounds I've ever worked with........many powders give excellent results as evidenced by this thread (again).

But to me, 200 FPS does mean something, if it didn't I shoot something else........slower.

MM

Whttailinmt said, "Just my opinion, but I'm gun shy of developing loads with Winchester's powder that's slower than 760; I've done it with two previous versions only to have it discontinued shortly thereafter. Hopefully that trend has ended with Hodgdon's ownership. Best of luck with whichever path you decide to take."

How true that is. If you find a slow Winchester powder that works for you, buy up all you can of the same lot number. My .270 just thrives on WMR which sadly has gone down the trail of discontinued powders. I've heard that WMR and H-450 were just different lots of the same powder. Might be some truth to that as both left the scene at about the same time.


Fishdog said, "I was never able to get the WMR powder up to the level I wanted."

That's strange, I've gotten good velocity and darn good accuracy in my .243, 6MM Rem., .257 Robt.,25-06,.270 Win., .280 Rem., 7MM Rem. mag. and .300 Win. Mag. For some reason though, it does not work in the 30-06 until you go to 200 and 220 gr. bullets and then not too well. The .338 Win. mag. doesn't seem to like it either. Could be the bore ratio is all wrong for those two cartridges. When I tried doing some load work up for the 30-06, velocities were some of the screwiest I've ever seen in the 28 years I've had a chronograph. The .338 win. mag. showed the same symptoms so I quit early on that one.
I found a great deal on four 8 pound cans of WMR, all with the same lot number so I'll not worry over much about runnimg out.
I think one of the big reasons WMR never went anywhere is I thonk only two loading manuals ever did anything with it and about the only gun writer that ever mentioned to any degree, and very little at that was Ken Waters, that mainly lamenting he couldn't find any to test with. Methinks if the public doesn't hear about it, how can they know whether to buy it or not? Same thing happened with H-205. Only Ken Waters and Clay Harvey ever seemed to have done anything with it, and it left the scene in about two years. I talked to a Hodgden rep about it being dropped and he said, "Frankly, the numbers were not there." If the gun writers don't mention it, we don't hear about it and then, of course it doesn't sell. IIRC, that happened with both RL-7 and SR-4759. Both got dropped and finally people made a big enough stink that it came back. Maybe, just maybe we have too damn many powders to play with these days. Just a thought.
Edited to add: I have found out that in the .270 and .300 mag. that is seems to work better with the heavier weight bullets. The 150 gr. Speer Hot-core does an honest 2960 FPS and I get 2930 witht he 200 gr. Speer Hot-core from the .300. I forget the speed on some of the others but the .280 does best with the 175 gr. Hornady SP, the 25-06 with 120 gr. bullets, the .243 and Bob with 100 gr. bullets. (Twist in my Bob is too slow for 120s)
Paul B.

PJ - I also thought that WMR might actually be H450 and bought up a few pounds to try, but as I recall even 1 grain over Winchesters listed max for the 130 gr bullet (which was 59.1 gr) only produced about 2900 fps in my 22" bbl 270. If it really was H450 then I had a slower lot of powder. What is your load with WMR and what do you get for velocity? Thanks.