Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Bowhunting so, how is your archery at 45 yards an farther?

This forum can be a bit hum drum..(yawn)

How is your archery at 45 yards and farther?

Can you shoot a consistent vertical line out to 100 yards?

Have you trained your eye, hand, mind and body to hold and align and loose to hit a one pound coffe can at 50 yards?

Now I know that hunting large game distances seldom require such shooting..
BUT practice makes for strength, confidence , concentration and control so even at shorter ranges, the shot is sure and to the heart.
How do you practice?Jim

There was a time when I was much younger that 45 yards was close range. Shooting the American Round (and 28 target field round) 100's of times when I was a teen made consistantly hitting a 9" bull (or what ever it was) at 60 yards boringly easy. The 45 yard field target was a piece of cake. This was with a target recurve, 1816 24srt-x shafts and no sight. Those days are far gone. There are old guys though today that can hit a telephone pole at 200 yards. That's shooting the line. I believe Jim can do it. My buddy Charlie did it once a few years ago roving. You might remember that Jim ;-).....Van

Van,
Yep I recall that visit to San Antonio when we got the chance to do a bit of shooting out in the hill country west of you..:)

Wish I'd had my own bow and arrows but it was still fun..

Point is for this post is that for archer-hunters IF they extend their practice to yardages they will never shoot on game, their strength, concentration and accuracy will improve remarkably for the hunting shots.
They won't have to consciously 'think' about the shot at 40 yards and in..it will happen...Jim

The range I shoot at lets me get out to around 40 yds and to honest, at that range, I suck! If I keep my concentration I can put 5 arrows in a 12" circle, but that is the exception. That said, when I shoot at that range and then come back to 20 yds I shoot pretty well, so yes I think it helps to shoot at long distance. If nothing else, its a lot of fun to shoot long distance. Oh yeah, I shoot a longbow and am cross-dominant, I shoot right handed and am left eye dominant. Although I've tried switching to shooting left handed, I can't get comfortable or consistant. When hunting I keep my shots to 20 yds or less and have had to pass up on a lot of shots at game, better to pass than wound I think.

Ryoshi,
IF you will hear me.
I assume your archery is primarily for hunting( and enjoyment)

When was the last time as hunter you needed to group five arrows to hit the mark and kill?

never.That's target archery..which has it place..

The FIRST arrow is the only one that matters for the hunter with the bow..unless he's shooting rabbits in a pen..:)

Concerning your eyes? Close the cross dominant eye..or wear a patch on your dominant eye so your other eye over the arrow shaft does the job.

Extend your practice to 50-75 yards.. One well shot arrow, good strong form..keeping the line..

When you walk down to retrieve the arrow contemplate the shot and your elevation evaluations.....Good exercise and good practice.Jim

Jim,
I hear you and appreciate the input as I'm trying to improve my shooting at all distances. There are 9 arrows in my quiver so if I really want to improve I need to leave 8 at home! As far as the 5 arrows are concerned, you are right of course, the first arrow is the one that counts, but next 4 show consistancy which is important as well. I'll try what you suggested and get back to you, thanks for help! (Might be a day or two though, today it's absolutely pouring rain in my neck of the woods!)

Jim, I thought of you today, went to a bowshop in Denver with many nice traditional bows (compound shooter), shot a custom long bow, fell in love, fondled the credit card but fought the impulse...

Your offer of a bowstave came up in conversation. The shop owner told me I should jump all over that. I told him that I hated the thought of me ruining a perfectly good bowstave. I came home and carved out a board bow for my daughter. I am getting faster...

I wonder why I have dozens of firearms but only one bow? I may have to do something about that.

I have 30 yds to practice behind the house but do a lot of stumpshooting at unknown distances. If I see something at 100 yds I want to shoot at I take the shot and maybe a few more till I hit it...PR

The shortest shot on game has been at 16 yards. Last season was a 22 yard shot and I brought the deer home. My longest ever shot was at 50 yards. Sliced that buck right into his heart and he piled-up in 20 yards. Should I have taken that shot ? Heck yes ! I practice shots at 75 yards all the time. I felt confident that I could make the shot in wide open hardwoods. Swirley winds made him a bit nervous but when he and the wind calm down I wacked him. Not something that I want to do on every animal. Practice is a good thing.

Ken

ryoshi,
For the hunter, one needs to develop and train his mind and eye to assess the distance to the mark.

Uphill, downhill, flat, deep shadow, sunlight, rain..

It is also valuable IF you can determine what your point on distance is with your bow and arrows.

By that, I mean what is the distance that your bow and your form will send that arrow to the mark when the point of the arrow at full draw is at 6:00 oclock on the 4" mark?

Think about that.
Every shot at closer range than your point on distance will have you seeing the arrow point in your secondary vision below the intended mark.

Beyond your point on, you will need to hold over..which I do not do for hunting..

No problem taking more than one arrow..:)
Just concentrate on the ONE arrow you are drawing and loosing..

IF you wish to take a second shot at the mark?
Take a step or two back, forward, or sideways so it is a 'different' shot.Jim

Supercrewd,
The ONLY 'board bows' I have ever made that were any account I made from MOSO edge grain glued up bamboo flooring with a bamboo nodes-on backing and laminated riser.

I can send you pics and a description of the process.
Bows that shoot fast and hit hard in the 70# class#30" and that look good and are trim..even have horn nocks..:)Jim

Hi Jim. My first shot of the day is between 50 and 55 yards. My point on with most of my bows is near that distance. I've always worked on vertical alignment and spent many fun hours shooting at dead trees, corn stalks, or telephone poles in the fields next to the creek where I live.

Accuracy is attainable at long distance and it brings about a lot of confidence at short hunting ranges. I also spent many a day on the field range in the late 60's, 70's and into the early 80's. Todays archers/hunters would do well to try to expand their accuracy horizons with some long distance shooting.

Good to find this place. George

George,
Over near 50 years of traditional archery, from PAA indoor competition, American Round to 3D and NFAA shoots and hunting..I firmly believe that learning to 'shoot the vertical line' is essential to good consistent archery.

Some of that is good matching up or bow( and it's tuning) and arrow and then coupled with good strong consistent form..shooting-loosing with the back..

A 4" styrofoam craft ball atop a 40" stick makes a great target.
( the English archers back when used to do a variation of this called the clout or wand shooting)

Even IF the elevation piece of the shot is off a bit, one can see how he's done on keeping the vertical line.

I practice often at 60-90 yards..My point on is 70 yards with 730 grain arrows, split fingered draw and 75-80#@30" longbows or recurves.

I can hit consistently at longer distances..but such practice is not for the hunting..but for strength, form and concentration...and confidence..:)

The hunting is done for elk, deer, bear lion at far closer ranges.
However, once one has the skills ingrained, the hunting shots involve timing, awaiting proper shot angle and animal position and the shot is done almost as afterthot..Jim

I would love the primer...

Supercrewd,
well, send me a PM and include your e-mail addy & phone number.
Meantime do a Google search on MOSO bamboo flooring.Jim

When my shooting is tuned up I generally put 3 or 4 arrows in a palm of my hand sized circle at 50 yards. At 60 it opens up and gets inconsistant. I don't shoot farther than that.

I don't take shots at game over 35 and prefer 20 and under so all that lobbing of arrows into the next county seems like a waste of time since I don't have a place at work or home to set up to do it.

SteelyEyes,
Practice out to one's 'point on' distance has value in building confidence, building strength and control, building consistent form all the way thru the loose, AND detecting subtle issues in bow , arrow, brace height, nocking point & tuning which may need attention.
Particularly the shooting the vertical line piece..:)
From that, the hunter archer comes back in and hones his skills at his typical hunting distances which for most will be under 50 yards and down to 18 yards depending on the game and the hunting terrain he hunts.
No I am not advocating shooting at game at great distances.Hunt in close ..whether one shoots a compound bow or a stickbow..
The practice at longer yardages does have a good effect on the archer's "archery"..and will enable him to hit with confidence on a golf ball sized mark at 20-30 yards with good consistency..Jim

With my old Golden Eagle I am alright out to 70 yards. I had it set up with two pins and fast arrows. One pin set at 30 and the other at 60. It worked great and I was good with it.
With my new bow, I am not so confident having missed several 40 yard plus shots on deer last year. I am hoping increased pounds and new arrows will help set my new AR-34 up so I can again make 70 yard shots with it.

My approach is a bit different from most and I am sure I will get a lot of flack.
Duwane Adams asked me if I was a target shooter or a killer. He asked cause I would talk about how good I was at set ranges: 20, 30, 40 ,50 yards. I told him a killer so I thought. He then said why do you shoot the set yards then? Don't you know that in hunting nothing is ever really at the yards your pins are set at?
He explained that after you set your bow and pins up for the set yards and the bow is sighted in, don't mess with those ranges very much. Take a few steps forward or backwards and learn where the arrow hits at off yards. You'll learn your bow better and be a better "killer" because of it. He also mentioned that here in AZ I should learn to shoot at least out to 70 yards if the bow will allow since archery hunting here is much harder than most other states.

So that is what I do to prepare for hunts. After I set my pins, I shoot the off yards and learn my bow, not shooting more than two arrows per location. Groups don't mean jack after you set your pins, but learning to adjust and place your arrow does.
With my New bow I have 4 pins, I will most likely set them at: 20, 40, 60 and 80 if I can and if the bow has it in it to make enough impact to kill that far. If not then:20, 30, 40 and 60 will be my pin set up.
If I can set those pins up to group 3 arrows in a CD sized circle, then I am set. When I practice for hunts, I set up a paper plate and use the bottom of that as a kill zone. If I can set my 2 arrows in that zone from the off yards and even the set yards, then I can kill at those yards.

To me that practice and that conversation have proved invaluable to being a better archery hunter. I may not be the best target shooter as I don't need my arrows to touch, but I feel I am a very good archer if I get the opportunity and my bow is set up and ready to go.

Just my two cents,
Kique

Enrique,
I hunted archery for over ten years in the Sonoran desert country and rim country of Az..:)Still miss the country..and we have no javelina up here in Oregon..:(
I've never used pins or sights on my bows..but if that works for hunters I have no issue with it.
One or two arrows at the mark in roving-field hunting practice work best for me..
It's surprising how light, shadow, uphill or downhill can effect one's perception of the shot distance..

Only by practicing in as much variety of terrain and light conditions will the archer build that essential 'memory bank' of how the shot needs to be lined up, elevated for..made..
Obviously, the shots at unknown yardages that hit the mark are the one's to 'save'..:)The others we learn from..:)


Often I say to myself when sizing up a shot that " this is about 46 yards'..then I make the shot.
As I walk down to retrieve the arrow, I note the paced distance, terrain permitting..
I have shot target archery in years past..Had old Al Henderson( Olympic Coach) as my coach..
PAA indoor wasn't what I wanted to do tho..:0 However, learning to shoot consistently with rock solid form and get one's bow and arrows tuned together were valuable for me as hunter, rover and archer.Jim

Jim,
Do you recall a Tim Rajsich? He shot under Al Henderson at Encanto years ago.

Doug

RedRabbit, That name's not familiar to me..I do recall watching Dick Tone shoot a perfect 300 PAA tho..:)
I never got that good....288 was the best I ever shot in competition..and that was witha 60# longbow and wood arrows..:)Jim

Is that Tim the same one that did taxidermy in Flag? Tims Trophy Taxidermy? If so, I taught hunters safety with him years ago...

Sgt,
That is the same Tim. He has TR Taxidermy and has done several of my mounts.

Jim,
Nice shooting.

Doug~RR

He was the guy that sat in with me the first few classes I taught up in Flag. Have not seen or talked with him in years. Still have that card as it is good for a free bonus point...grin

I can hit your arrows at 20 and 30. I can tear your fletches at 40. I can shoot the two inch red pasties at 50. I can hit the yellow bull on the archery target at 60. I can keep them in the mystical 8" circle (deer vital visualizer) at 70. I can keep them in the target which is about 14" across out to 100. On rare days when there's no wind, I can keep them inside about an eight inch circle with 3 or 4 touching in a given round.

I stuck this in the campfire a week or so ago.

Nice shooting, actually great shooting.
Can you kill a deer?

I don't know about everyone else, target or hunting, that's pretty impressive.

I know bows can kill that far too. My buddy George shot an antelope at 136 yards with his Matthew's Q2 XL. Not bad considering he missed at 90 the first shot. If you can practice that far you can kill that far. Goergie proved that to me and now I believe a Robin hood can be made at 100 yards. who cares how many times it took.


Kique

Jim,
Just a quick update on my shooting. Went out and shot, trying what you suggested, but my range is too short to get an accurate point on distance, I was several feet over the target even at 40 yds. Maybe I'm not doing it right! Anyway, I also took my left hand recurve and shot it some, oddly I shot some really small groups, 3 arrows, and some not so small groups with it but not necessarily on the mark. Shooting right handed, I can hit close to the mark first shot but still not as consistantly as I would like. Closing my left eye when shooting right handed feels really odd as I normally shoot instinctively with both eyes open. Just need to do it more I guess.
Since I am a hunting archer I prefer to rove, so I get what you are saying about light, angle, etc. in the field, but there is nowhere here I can do that. Guess I just need to keep practicing and concentrating on form. It's a fun challenge trying to get better! Thanks for the suggestions and encouragement.

47 yards...

Right thru the antlers at 47 yards, nice shooting...

Rob P..( Mongo..:)
I never have 'robin-hooded' one of my own arrows in over 45 years of shooting..:)

Question, and please don't be offended:

Looking at the angle of incidence on the arrows in the target of your picture, either you have an extremely flat shooting bow...OR you got confused about the distance and it wasn't 100 yards..:)..more like 30..:)

Regardless, keep up the practice at distance as it will enhance your shooting at hunting ranges..Jim

Jim, I have to agree that looks more like under forty yards...those arrows are straight in the target.

Hi folks. The "can I kill a deer" question. That's the point to all the practice. It took me 11 years to get my first RI deer with a bow hunting public land. Last year I got 2 ten seconds apart. The year before, I got one the third day of the season, and another Thanksgiving weekend. Usually one or two a year with a bow. The year before I got one Christmas week. I've also shot an odd dozen in CT, maybe 25 or 30 in all over the last decade. I've gotten about 40 with a rifle in NC in 17 years of hunting down there, and a paltry 2 with the shotgun and the goose egg with the muzzle loader.

As to arrows in said target, it's 100 yds! That's why it's on the Campfire. I wouldn't put up a 20 or a 30. The arrows do come down pretty straight out there, by the way. The other guys with 260 - 300 fps bows all look about the same. The recurve guys, when they can hit the target don't look a whole lot different either. They certainly don't come down like they do in the Braveheart movie.

The farthest deer I've shot with a bow is 45 yds, standing broadside behind a v shaped tree. I had a buck trailing a doe through thick pole timber 40 yds from me this year. I had him at full draw, but he never stopped. I never saw him again. The biggest deer I ever saw was lying in a bull briar patch 40 yds away. He never stood up, just crawled his way out, and I didn't get a shot at him either. The things that go through your head when a deer walks in. So many things have to go right to get a good shot off. There's got to be at least a dozen maybes for every arrow let go.

Rob, I believe ya..:) Good shooting! Jim

I shot in new jersey 2 weeks ago(competition) it was a 70 yard shoot and out of the 100's of shooters 80 percent of us can keep our arrows tighter grouped then some people can freehanding a rifle.

As for a 100, the farthest shot we take in competition is 90 meters in a FITA round, and 80 in a field round. And most the archers in the Cup competitions, worlds, and national tournaments can shoot +- 4 inch groups at the farthest distance.

As for hunting, this is a whole new story. Circumstances are not perfect, there is adrenaline, and the gap for a screw up is far smaller. I have a 60 yard pin on my bow, mainly only for 3-D. Unless everything was absolutely perfect there is no chance that I would send an arrow at a deer 60 yards in the woods.

-FMP

mine sucks.

Was just out back shooting with my daughter...last 3 shots I moved to 45 yds and hit the 3" maple leaf I had stuck in the target with all 3 shots....been a couple of months since I even picked up my bow....It's great having a 7 yr old that likes retrieving my arrows from my 3D deer

Here's a couple pics for ya. - If photobucket's up and running.

Here are the robin hoods at 20 & 30 yds from Sept. 2006. I pulled them apart after that because it got expensive but these get to stay up for the kids to look at. I stuck the 100 yd up there until one of the guys makes a little case for it. See if you can see my name on the plaque.



Here's a friend's arrows stuck in the hundred tonight. They're pretty horizontal too. That seems to be how they land.

Not worth a pinch of [bleep]

Not gonna pick on any of you..:)

BUT IF you enjoy archery and aspire to hunt anything beyond 20 yards out of a tree stand..take the time to work on your archery proficiencies out at least to 45 yards.

Your practical hunting & archery may NEVER require good accuracy at that minimal distance..BUT the practice will help your strength,concentration and accuarcy even if all you ever aspire to hit is a foam target at 15 yards..:) Jim

Just because of this forum post I've started shooting some 50 yarders from my longbows and selfbows. Not only great fun but form deficiencies, especially release errors, are hard to hide.

Jim, do you ever use distance (flight?) shooting to test the cast of your selfbows? I've got the space but I've never tried it.

LostArra,
I shoot 'flight' on all my bows with 5.5" helical parabolic 3 fletch arrows that are 730-745 grains just to see...:)
Same arrows and bows I hunt with.

Flight shooting is a bit of an art..:) and so my draw anchor and loose are all done with the 48 degree angle and a loose in than less than 4 seconds...Not quite like hunting or target archer's hold..:0

The flight of the arrow and the distance tells me some things about the bow..and my form and loose.

I have a chronograph I use also..

The heavy arrows ( 730-745 grains) out of 75-80#@30" bows all travel over 320 yards.

But I am a dinosaur as it concerns archery..:) Jim

jim you sound like a super nice guy and it's great to have someone like you on this page happy hunting.

We've all found shooting 100 yds has made shooting closer a lot easier. We've all spent money on better equipment from arrows to sights and releases and most of us have learned to tune bows. I'm still not putting my fifty yard pin on a deer. I might put my 100 on a woodchuck or two over the Summer but that's about it. Flipping them with the Montech judo points is spectacular.

I'm presently shooting a Rem 40X Rangemaster that's got to weigh fourteen pounds off hand at 100. I picked up my M1A that's three pounds lighter and found I could hold it a lot steadier. When the competition comes in August, I will do better than last year, and I'm sure the practice will help with the gun season here too. In 20 years of deer hunting, I've never fired a round off hand. If I can't get a good rest, I pass on the shot. Maybe I could do a little better!

Jim since you pointed out that you are a dinosaur, here is a little computer tip...:) If you leave a space between the periods and the eyes/smile you will get one of those cute little faces instead... You may already know that..;)

Rob P,
I'm with you on using some sort of rest when shooting firearms if it can be had..In addition to a good rest, I have true shooting slings on all my hunting rifles and have learned to use them well.Use of the shooting sling helps position shooting and changes alot of the 'offhand' vagaries into 'in hand' accuracy.

Back to flight or distance shooting of arrows tho..:)

It is interesting for me to see how close I can get five arrows to land to each other at max distance of over 300 yards.
One has to bring the bow up on the same vertical line for each shot, hold at the same angle, and excute the loose with the same back tension.

The only 'aiming' which can be done is what I call 'undhanded' aiming..The bow is just about vertically held( not canted) and one can use a point on his lower limb as reference.

Make one appreciate the skill and many hours spent by the Kings best artillery archers back in the 10th & 11th centuries..Jim

Jim: how about the ultra-short practice?

Sounds silly until you're in the thick stuff and that deer "appears" at less than 10 yards.

For us selfbow shooters it's nice to know how those arrows are flying just after they leave the bow.

I have a couple of targets set up with shooting windows surrounded by limbs and leaves that can range from 6 yards to 25. The brush helps with concentration.

(I've never owned a compound so I don't know how this would affect the modern equipment.)

Lost Arra,
When we stump shoot, we often shoot at a mark less than 20 feet distant that requires the archer to 'thread the needle' thru holes in the foliage, between saplings where there is 4-6" 'alleyway' to the mark..and the mark is small..the size of a tennis ball.
Often the shot requires the archer to kneel or evn sit to see the mark thru the eye of the needle..

One soon finds out about his 'form' loose, strength, concentration and the proper matchup of arrows to bow..brace height etc on such shots..and it's less far to retrieve the arrows too.
It's ALL good practice..:) Jim

Stick and stringers can land arrows in the target nearly horizontal, too, while distance shooting.

Decrease the weight of your tips, moving the center of gravity back near the center of the shaft. Then decrease the amouont of drag; swithc to vanes and glue them on with very minimal twist (decrease the parachute effect).

It's a tuning nightmare and a smooth release is infinitely more important ... but it can be done.

Question from a non-archer; (I realize the numbers will vary according to gear.)

What is the highest point in an arrow's flight between the bow and the target at 40 or 50 yards?

I was shooting last year at 80yds for practice, but after going to the archery shop and them tuning down my bow and the new arrows flying funny I am back to 45 max, but am working on new bow that I picked up from the pawn shop Mathews LX left hand which is my normal shooting side. Hopefully by september I will be able to shoot 80yds at a target but will still hold 45 as my max.

headspace,
The only way to KNOW the top arc of one's arrow from his bow is to shoot and watch and learn.
Faster flatter shooting bows have a lower arc..but still there IS an arc to the arrow's flight beyond 15 yards.

Not like the ballistic tables firearms shooters know and tweak for their rifle and load..:) Jim

I do some 100 yd scoped rimfire shooting. From the bench, thru the scope of course, I can often see the bullet falling down into the target.
Do you see a similar thing with the arrow? Does it leave your vision on the way up as you concentrate on the target, to be seen again as it drops down into it?

headspace,
My own stickbows are pretty quick..even with 730 grain arrows fletched for hunting with helical.

Flight time for, say 50 yards, is around one second..so I can follow the arrow in flight to some degree.
When one is familiar with his bow and arrows he knows how much top room to accomodate the arrow's arch he'll need to make the shot without getting tangled up in overhead brush, tree limbs etc..

When one gets GOOD, he can shoot thru a coffee can sized 'hole' in the foliage in the arrow's flight path and hit the mark.
It's a great sport..but not alot of ballistic tables to help to perfectly define beforehand the arrow's flight.
The shooter of the bow is ONE of many critical pieces of the equation..Jim

been shooting daily for the past 6 weeks getting ready for my archery elk opener in another 6 weeks...

I practice regularly at 35, 45, 55 yards, so that when I get that 25 yard chip shot, it's just that- a chip shot.

That being said, I did kill my elk last year quartering away at 50 yards. I didn't even think twice about taking the shot due to all the practice.

Last night I backed up to 62 yards and let 4 fly. Here's what I ended up with:


Woe be to any elk that gives me a quartering away or broadside shot at 50 yards and in!!!

megalomaniac,
I believe you and the pic..
Shucks, half the rifle hunters at the range sighting in won't shoot that well..:) Jim