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Originally Posted by Jlin222
Re: dogzapper's comment that Askin's was rumored to have cheated his way to the top:

Before WWII the main pistol game was NRA bullseye (the only other game was PPC, based on the FBI course). Then, as now, there were three parts to bullseye pistol: .22, centerfire and .45. Centerfire could be any centerfire round. So Askins got the bright idea of adapting a Colt Woodsman Match pistol to the .22 Velo Dog cartridge, which was an obsolescent centerfire cartridge about the size and power of a .22 LR. I don't recall if he had to cut the case down in length or was able to use the cartridges intact. In any event, the obvious advantage was it had the recoil of a .22 LR, significantly less than the .32 and .38 caliber centerfire revolvers that were then favored for that class, clearly a benefit in timed (5 shots in 20 sec) and rapid fire (5 shots in 10 sec), which accounts for 2/3 of the overall score.

He actually shot a few matches with that gun, but IIRC he didn't actually win a championship with it. I believe the next year, the NRA modified its centerfire rules so that a centerfire pistol had to be at least .32 caliber. In his writings, Askins was clearly proud of the way he gamed the system to gain an advantage over his competitors. Whether it would be considered cheating depends on your idea of sportsmanship - it was definitely gamesmanship. But he was a national pistol champ so he clearly was a top notch target shooter.

I also read somewhere (possibly on the 'fire) that he had a dislike of Jack O'Connor because O'Connor replaced his father as Shooting Editor of Outdoor Life when the elder Askins wasn't yet ready to go.



It was indeed gamesmanship. Wheater or not it was cheating has nothing to do with ones idea of sportsmanship only if the written rules are broken or nat and it is clear that thye were not



I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Originally Posted by Steelbanger
I remember reading an artcle or excerpt by Askins in a monthly magazine some years back, which detailed his being the first to kill a man with the S & W 44 mag. I can't remember which magazine it was but at that time I wondered why they would print it. I realized that Askins came off as an arrogant, pompus bully who would probably throw tantrums if he wasn't quoted verbatum. I never read any of his ramblings after that time.



According to Askins if memory serves correctly, he was hunting in Vietnam and he was fired on and he worked his way around and to the aggressor and shot him in the neck withthe S&W M-29 44 mag



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Whether you liked Askins or not, there are out-of-control areas of the United States where we could use a platoon of men just like him. I'd like to see a few Charley Askins-types turned loose on some of our present day criminal gangs.

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Agreed, Washington, D.C. first.

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I have Unrepentant Sinner and have read it a couple of times. There is a consistent theme running throughout: Askins seemed to relish shooting unsuspecting people from ambush. A few of his kills were shootouts, but some of them were pretty cold-blooded. What always struck me as odd is that he tells of shooting a German soldier from behind, deliberately shooting him in the kidney with a Colt .38 Special. Then, seemingly out of character for him, he loads the wounded soldier in his jeep and takes him to an aid station.

I've always admired Askins, Sr. (a Major), who seemed like a decent guy who loved (and lived) to hunt birds. He managed to eke out enough of a living as a writer to support his birdhunting, but was hampered by a bad marriage and I'm sure the pain of having a psychopathic son. You can tell early on in the pages of Unrepentant Sinner that the reason Askins, Sr. pulled some strings and got his son a job in the Forest Service in the wilds of Montana was to try to keep him out of trouble.

Soon after Askins, Jr. died, Massad Ayoob, who has researched and written about gunfights for 40 years, wrote an article about him. He told the good and most of the bad, and strongly hinted that in the modern view of law enforcement, Askins, Jr. would be a criminal.

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I'm going to have to read this book, hadn't heard of it before.


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I've heard of it and seen it for sale many times, now I have to read it...


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I'll loan you a copy after you buy it. laugh


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It was at either the first or second Bianchi Cup, Askins attended as a VIP. Ray Chapman and John Bianchi were courting the NRA (or perhaps the NRA was courting them) to sanction the match and start a "practical shooting event" (the name changed in 83 to "action shooting" at Jeff Cooper's insistance). Anyway, Askins was seated at the head table during the awards dinner, wearing a cowboy hat and looking flamboyant and bored. IIRC, Bill McMillan (ex Olympic pistol shooter, Marine Officer and San Diego Deputy) was giving a short talk. Right in the middle of the talk, Askin stands up, looks out over the crowd and then just walks out, totally disrupting the presentation. He never came back, nor did Ray invite him back IIRC. He also wrote a critical piece for the American Rifleman after the 1978 US IPSC championsip that was egregious enough that the champion, Ross Seyfried wrote a response---this was years before Ross had ever penned an article---maybe in a way, Askin is responsible for Ross' writing career.


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Originally Posted by gmoats
It was at either the first or second Bianchi Cup, Askins attended as a VIP. Ray Chapman and John Bianchi were courting the NRA (or perhaps the NRA was courting them) to sanction the match and start a "practical shooting event" (the name changed in 83 to "action shooting" at Jeff Cooper's insistance). Anyway, Askins was seated at the head table during the awards dinner, wearing a cowboy hat and looking flamboyant and bored. IIRC, Bill McMillan (ex Olympic pistol shooter, Marine Officer and San Diego Deputy) was giving a short talk. Right in the middle of the talk, Askin stands up, looks out over the crowd and then just walks out, totally disrupting the presentation. He never came back, nor did Ray invite him back IIRC. He also wrote a critical piece for the American Rifleman after the 1978 US IPSC championsip that was egregious enough that the champion, Ross Seyfried wrote a response---this was years before Ross had ever penned an article---maybe in a way, Askin is responsible for Ross' writing career.



Well, it is something we can thank him for.

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Originally Posted by BillyGoatGruff
I'll loan you a copy after you buy it. laugh


Sounds about par... wink


Travis


Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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In addition to titling his autobiography appropriately, Col. Askins prefaced the book with a few lines from the poem, "The Men that Don't Fit In" by Robert Service. This was another apt introduction, since Col. Askins certainly did not fit into the modern era. He was of a type few people today have the stomach to handle.

There's a race of men that don't fit in
a breed that can't stay still.
So they break the hearts of kith and kin
and they roam the world at will.

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hmmm..,

I really enjoyed Askins articles about buffalo hunting and his wildcat experiments with various 8mm calibers.

Bought a copy of Unrepenant Sinner and read it several times. My first thought was, 'this guy is a sneak,back shooter who avoided combat'. Second thought was, 'why would anyone document the fact they were a cold blooded backshooter?'

Self doubts lead me to believe I just was missing some great literary insite. Guess not. Askins hated all female relatives, started killing randomly at a young age and felt no compassion for anyone except his father. All signs of a serial killer.

Somehow, I grudingly sympothise with the man. The quote from Robert Serice is on of my favorites.

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Never met Charlie's dad.
Wish I had.
From all accounts, he was a man to ride the river with.

When he was laid-up too sick, too long, to write his columns, Elmer ghosted 'em for him.
(IIRC, he was JO'C's predecessor at Outdoor Life.)

When Elmer was bed-ridden in the hospital, terribly paralyzed after his stroke, Charlie opined that if Elmer had any guts, he'd kill himself.
Charlie offered to "off" Elmer as a favor, and our colleagues gasped with shock and horror at what they saw as his callousness � but I think that may well have been just Charlie's weird approximation of compassion.


"Good enough" isn't.

Always take your responsibilities seriously but never yourself.



















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From what I have read, Askins, Jr. had a very deep hatred for JOC. The reason for this was that Askins felt that JOC took Askins, Sr s' job from him at Outdoor Life.

If Elmer wrote Askins Srs. articles for him, because the senior Mr. Askins was too ill to write them himself, that does not seem to be the case, as it appears Mr. Askins, Sr. was not physically able to write, therefore Outdoor Life needed a replacement.

If this is true, then it would appear that Askins, Jr. was wrong about JOC taking his dad's job.

I remember reading an article several years ago, which gave an account of Askins, Jr. actually committing a murder and getting away with it. It has been a long time ago, but it seems like it involved a person crossing the river into Texas.

I believe the article was published after Askins' death.

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Originally Posted by Ken Howell
Never met Charlie's dad.
Wish I had.
From all accounts, he was a man to ride the river with.

When he was laid-up too sick, too long, to write his columns, Elmer ghosted 'em for him.
(IIRC, he was JO'C's predecessor at Outdoor Life.)

When Elmer was bed-ridden in the hospital, terribly paralyzed after his stroke, Charlie opined that if Elmer had any guts, he'd kill himself.
Charlie offered to "off" Elmer as a favor, and our colleagues gasped with shock and horror at what they saw as his callousness � but I think that may well have been just Charlie's weird approximation of compassion.


Didn't he give up the ghost almost the same way as Elmer?

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Is this the last word on ol' Charlie?

LINK

I don't want to say anything beyond this.


"Good enough" isn't.

Always take your responsibilities seriously but never yourself.



















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I suspect that article just scratches the surface.

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Very informative article. But I do enjoy Mas Ayoob's writing too.

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I'm glad this thread was revived. I had not heard/read about all of this. Glad i know now. Jr sounds like he should have been in prison or a mental ward.


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