Home Forums Lever Action Central Marlin Talk Why did Marlin Talk end.Your opinion?

Why did it go down?In my opinion it was posted about two months ago on Misc.Talk.WARNING-and no one payed attention.They only had the warning on Misc.Talk.None of the other's foums.Gee wiz.Now there is no Marlin Talk.Why do you think it went down?

Just my opinion.Jayco.

Hey Jayco Creek!
I'm the MT refugee formerly known as Pastor Dave. Aside from the battle between some members, I have to wonder if there might be something to do with Ed Chabot's family committments. I know his father in law was very ill, and I don't think anyone had heard from him for some time. We might all try to keep him in our prayers.
Otherwise, I'm thrilled to join up at the 24hour campfire!

Best Regards,
Leidernicht

I think you may be on to something jayco. I also believe it may have to do with the number of people getting loading suggestons from the site. I can see where this could have the possiblity of turning into a liability issue for Marlin, ie someone blows up their gun using someone's load he got off MT and then tries to sue Marlin for it. This might be far fetched but in this day and time you really can't count anything out. Also all the non gun related political crap might have just gone to far.
Matt

Posters were too critical of Marlin's good ideas. For example, many in the 336 forum wanted to see the return of the 356, perhaps in a stainless 336 er version. No comment from Marlin, just the introduction of the 475/480 that serves no real purpose that many could see.

Jeff

In this day and age just about every poster wanted something in the Marlin levergun from the .06 to the .700 Nitro.The .500 Alaskan was a biggie.So was the .454 to an extent.I guess they made there choice's in caliber's and forum's.

Anyone that was there as a regular saw the WARNING on Misc.Talk and ignored it.It went from past presidents being like Hitler to Weird stuff.I called the crew on Lincoln being like Hitler with a post saying if I was Ed or Marlin Talk I would can this.Some just replyed,cool it.

This is America and no one on any forum can bash the great old USA without recourse.We paid the price for other's and there so called fun that had nothing to do with Marlin's or hunting and gun's.But I see a few of them talking gun's now.My how times change.

Just my opinion.Jayco.

Everyone assumes that becasue Marlin doesn't make the ONE GUN that they want, they aren't listening to the customers....Marlin has been around a long time..they know something about business. I do not think we'll ever know why MT has gone under.

s/f
Jarhead Ed

I think Ed was getting tired of babysitting & maybe some or one of the "higher ups" in Marlin may have looked around & been unpleasantly suprised. I know if it was my company & I was supplying a place like Marlin talk for my customers I wouldnt have appreciated what was happening there.
Its a shame that a few people who have nothing of value to add to a forum can ruin it for everyone, but thats the way it is & I hold no grudge against Marlin for doing what they felt was best for their company. Actually I'm supprised it took so long.

Jayco,

What was the warning posted on their forum?

Thanx,

Who is this Jar Head Ed guy?Never saw him on Marlin Talk.I think I saw some one that was edi12345 or something like that?
Check out the Marlin site and Misc.Talk.I can't cut and thread like others.

The REASONS for MT demise, in my opinion :

The company has been BEEN wanting to shut it down for a couple of years, Not just recently.
There were some extremely unsafe loads posted (T/C kid]
which turned into a heated debate.
People were engaging in PERSONAL ATTACKS against each other. {posting home addresses , THREATS of personal violence,ETC}
Detrimental posts on politics.
Unsuitable links.
Raunchy JOKES
Constant BICKERING between some posters
HOW TO'S ON DISABLING SAFTIES

Ther are a few others such as, MT was probably taking up too much of ED CHABOTS time, costing too much money and putting THE MARLIN FIREARM CO in a bad light as the forums INDIRECTLY reflected on the company as a whole.

I would also like to point out that Ed Chabot has all along, done everything he could to PREVENT what has happened from happening.

We were WARNED by Mr. Chabot a few times. We were also told that MT was supposed to be SELF MODERATING.

In all actuallity there is no one to blame but ourselves.

I would like to thank ED CHABOT for all he has done.

..........................................................................OTTO

I think you about covered it Otto. I enjoyed some of the debates. Too many got personal. If we keep it civil, theres plenty of fun to be had hashing out our opinions about guns or whatever. A little bit of the fun of choosing a 35 over a 30/30 (or vice versa) is explaining your choice.

As you can see self moderating did not work! I think that some of the post that were non gun were fine along with the jokes as long as they were not inapropriate and rated no worse than PG. I think a lot of the political post and the articles that were posted were fine. The trolls and the post to get some ones goat were not as with along with the threats and other things that went on there that a moderator would have nipped in the bud! MT is the only gun forum I have seen that had the problems it did as it was not moderated. MT could eliminate all the post they wanted if you do not eliminate the problems with them it just goes on and on. Yea not saying I was perfect there either and I got into some discussions that baited me into them. In the same respect that old saying do as in rome?? If it had been moderated I bet non of those issues would have went as far as they did. jim

Maybe Otto should have been a Moderater.Everything you said could and is probably true.The point is,when a WARNING sign is posted over a forum(not all,just one)Misc.Talk it was ignored.It went on as if nothing was said.We can go way back and blame everyone,but not everyone was WARNED.Just Misc.Talk.To me not being on the payroll,I would think a WARNING is a WARNING.Now it ain't there.But if you have inside info over the last several years,let us no.

It doesn't do any good to sqauble over it unless were in the no.So if your not on the payroll,your just guessing like the rest.

logcutter : I was an opponent of moderators. I always felt that we as adults SHOULD have been able to restrain and IGNORE.

I was WRONG..

If it was at all possible for Marlin Talk to COMEBACK I would take a SHIFT....................................................OTTO


PS It would be nice to post a thank you here to ED
http://www.marlin-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=761

Otto-There gone and I am moving on.It doesn't do one good to dread over the past,because that is what is is,The Past.Marlin made there choice and I made mine.Neither one of us is going to miss the other.
Life goes on.

Just my opinion.Jayco.

Well, Lincoln wasn't Hitler, but he did do some things that were in direct conflict with the Constitution. However, desperate times breed desperate measures. Thank GOD that no sitting President has faced that degree of desperation and has felt that it was necessary to suspend any of our Constitutional Rights. Thank GOD Lincoln was a brave man and had the guts to save the Republic from disintegration.

Jeff

BTW Check out this linl here is the guy who is in charge of PUBLIC REALATIONS, Write to HIM at Marlins address.

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?...G=461&dept_id=8416&rfi=6

Oughta send enuff mail to fill his office

We were quests at MT and we neglected to show our host the respect due them for the privilage to be there.
Hooker

I think most of what OTTO said is true to an extent,, I think the real reason is the lawyers.. Marlin hosting the site , they would have been held responsible for all the reloading info and the disabiling of the safteys.... We all know the sharks in suits go after money...

I think that was the major reason, the others added some of it also...
I do think the post on the closing by gunsmith3.. was intentional.. I would just guess that he works there and was tired of hearing that Marlin Firearms were junk and got in his two cents before the hammer was dropped.. And I can't blame him either... We may never know the real reason,, Time to move on.. I am thankful for the many friends I met there and to Ed Chabot for sticking his neck out for us on more than one occasion..

I look at it like this consider a moderated forum like being in church you behave and are on your best behavior or at least most folks are. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Then consider a non moderated board it is like a bar or nightclub you may say things you would not say other places and or get in arguments that you would not in other places either. I know this is kinda a hokey comparison but it kinda fits. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Hey Fellas,
I agree with what GunJunkie said.Although I was somewhat disapointed it was shut down,I am not at all surprised considering some of the trash that was posted on there with some of it being down right shameful and embarrassing.
Take care,Mman.....

Hey logg

welcome to the fire. Why i can tell you why. They were supporting a forum that they thought was going to pat themselves on the back and tell how good they are. But, as usual they are wrong. They didnt want people exchanging ideas on how to inprove thier products and fix mistakes or point them out. instead they should keep the forum and read the stuff and inprove their products, instead they burried their heads in the sand and said look how much money we will save when we get rid of this marlin talk. I do miss BIG MORTIE from H+R talk

Bearbeater

I think gunjunkie got it. The lawyers got a look at the site, saw people posting ways to defeat safeties and disregarding safe cartridge pressure limits, and did a little math. If taking the site down ticked off every MT member enough that they failed to buy, on average, one Marlin gun apeice, that'd cost them about 7.5 million dollars. If they were named in one lawsuit from someone who claimed the company supported an unsafe act causing injury or death, it'd cost 'em at least twice as much when you figure in legal fees and settlement. And the latter is much more likely than the former.

Hi Guys

I guess the truth of the matter will come out sooner or later. Very sad to see the demise of M.T. and will offer my heartfelt thanks to ED CHABOT here, for everything he did do and tried to do for us.

I guess it is a hard lesson learned.

Take care Guys............

My opinion? We will never know the reason(s) for a certainty and pointless speculation will only allow open wounds to fester.

What is obvious, to me, is that it was the predictable result of human behavior. Whether the unacceptable behavior originates from Trolls or deeply held opinions the results are the same.

If the basic rules of respect and decency are ignored the board becomes juvenile and undisciplined. It looses focus and eventually dies

Regardless of the type of forum or the topic under discussion, if there is no mechanism in place to halt juvenile behavior e.g. a moderator. The forum will die a slow ugly death.

Having seen just that happen to many other forums,boards,user groups, etc. I still would like an unmoderated forum. But the best I've seen are lightly moderated.

Like democracy, moderation may not be the best form. But it's head and shoulders above the rest.

flatdog.

Everybody,
Ottomatic summed it up very well. In the past few weeks, I couldn't believe that thinly veiled threats, telling of posters home locations, etc, would be allowed. Yet, there it was, for all to read.

And the instructions for disabling the safety mechanism should never have been allowed. We really shouldn't be surprised at the abrupt closing, although some advance notice would have given us time to arrange a new site to exchange ideas.

It is my hope that only the good will follow us here, we don't need this childish bickering and name calling.

Will we ever know how Crow Waxer did in the U.S.Marines? I hope so.

Have no doubts about it: my fellow attorneys who work for Marlin shut it down, and rightly so.

I think Marlin could have EASILY moved the forum away from their website and kept it seperate, if they wanted to...with no connection to marlin, and no liability to them. A disclaimer could have been put at top of each page etc...

They simply chose not to....and that decision is not condusive to good business. Not when you have so many users, many of which bought marlin guns as a result of the forum. Me included.

Ed did a great job of not doing a job. Meaning, he left it alone mostly, to run itself. MANY of us would have gladly volunteered to be moderators.

I am not happy with marlin. They gave us a great place to meet and chat...built it up to where it became "home"...and then evicted us. Not cool at all.

Jake

I'm with Mammoth on this one. They took their ball and went home. There were many responsible posters who would have gladly vollunteered to moderate by Marlin's rules. There was a fantastic exchange of ideas and opinions. Yes, some posts were vitriolic but that's what a free exchange of ideas sometimes leads to. I was one of the very early members there but didn't have a giant post count. I DID read other posts a lot and I purchased several Marlin rifles as a DIRECT result of feedback I got from other posters there. I trust the words of my fellow shooters a LOT more than paid gun rag flunkies.

I still love Marlin's products but resent the company. Not because they pulled the plug but because they haven't had the guts to be straight forward about why. I guess I'll buy my Marlins used for a while.

Patrick

Yes they took their ball and went home and rightly so.Yes there were many responsible posters ,but there were the irresponsible also. Bottom line, they have to cover their butts.



<a href="www.poconobears.com" target="_blank">poconobears</a>

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I suppose the short answer is that there were too many a$$holes on Miscellaneous Talk.......

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Who's fault was that Neil I figure it was Marlins. Lots of guys there would have volunteered to moderate and keep the peace. No I think it all boiled down to money and more lawyer proofing as guys were talking about getting around the safety issue, While the trolls were a pain at MT that could have been taken care of with moderators. Jim

I know on the H&R side there was alot of info being posted on how to modify triggers, float the fore-arm, rechambering with reamers, home repair in general. One poster was banned for photos of the trigger assembly modification until a bunch of guys protested and he was allowed back.
Alot of the info probably saved the factory from doing alot of easy fix type warrenty repairs because folks were willing to turn their own wrenches.
The H&R talk was all about the firearms and not the bull. MT was much different.
Marlin set themselves apart with this great service. Now they are just like all the rest.

RV

RV

I would count BIG MORTIE as all bull, little about guns.

This was posted on the former Talk site, by Marlin & H&R.
"H&R 1871 LLC - "H&R Talk" Corporate Policy

We noted that �H&R Talk� was cancelled because of �technical and administrative considerations�. As you all know, H&R pays to have our website � including �H&R Talk� � on the Internet. It is, therefore, a company sponsored feature. This makes H&R responsible for what appears on the site. As you know, many statements, questions and recommendations appear on the site that may be factually wrong, provide dangerous information, or contradict H&R safety instructions. Ideally, �H&R Talk� entries that we disagree with or are just plain incorrect, should be answered by H&R at the site in a timely manner.



This task simply cannot be done because of lack of personnel � thus it is truly an �administrative� problem. To continue with �H&R Talk�, leaving these concerns, questions, and issues unanswered, is a situation that we do not consider acceptable.



To allow former �H&R Talk� members the opportunity to retrieve e-mail addresses or download listed posts we are opening �H&R Talk�, without the ability for users to post, until February 20, 2004.



We apologize for any inconvenience that the discontinuance of �H&R Talk� causes you, but due to a wide variety of issues we have no alternative choice."

Legal issues for sure.
MT let it go to far for too long. Their fault not ours.

However, MT has obtained more information from it's users than they can possibly use within the next 15 years, and it was almost free.

Perry

Lawyers!