Home Forums Lever Action Central Marlin 336 Lever Actions Intermittant firing pin strikes-336 mid 60's vintage

First post here in the Marlin section. Good friend stopped by today to ask my help in solving his problem. 336 in 35 Rem, as near as I can remember its been in his family since mid 60's. Best estimate of rounds through it since that time is less than 200. Its your "2 shots to check sight setting's, 2 shots for deer for the year" gun. It has started misfiring. He tells me its been to the gunsmith for cleaning; 11th shot after getting it back misfired as before. Chamber was clean, but seemed to have some crud on the shoulder of the chamber so we cleaned that and got a fair amount of crud off and it now looks clean to the naked eye. He called me to say that it fired 2 out of 5, 3 misfires. He's going to bring it back over for me to take a look. I'm no gunsmith so I'm not sure why he's bringing it here but.......

The transfer bar at the back of the bolt seems to move freely. Seems to line up straight to the firing pin as finger pressure will push it forward with no dragging. I've seen some of the cartridges, both fired and misfires. In those that fired, the indent is what I would consider normal, perhaps ever so slightly off center (I've seen worse), rounded as normal, and plenty deep. The misfires have hardly a dent in them, as though the pin never made it far enough to set off the primer. He's tried Winchester and Federal ammo; misfires with both. The little gizmo between the underside tang and the lever seems to be working properly, hammer trips every time when I looked at it earlier.

Is the bolt, firing pin and firing pin channel easily cleaned by a tinkerer such as myself or is it a gunsmith job? Is this misfiring normal on an older gun, or was this model known for developing a certain problem thats easily remedied with a bit of TLC? I don't have a Stoney point headspace bushing that will fit it or I'd check some of the new factory ammo and the fired ammo to see if the shoulder dimensions change radically. He is not a reloader so all shooting has been done with factory ammo.

I'd appreciate any thoughts you Marlin enthusiasts might have. Thanks for your help! Ken

Line up a fired case and one that didn't fire. Look for a difference in shoulder location. That sounds like maybe 50 thousandths difference, which you can see.

Using calibers, you might be able to measure and compare overall length with maybe a 40S&W case or 3/8 drive socket over the neck, resting against the shoulder.

Bruce

Thats an excellent solution to the headspace issue comparison, thank you. I'll see what I can dig up.
Along those lines, I'm thinking I might get a collet for my bullet puller, maybe pull those factory bullets out a bit and see if I can get a jam fit in the chamber and see if that helps. If it does, perhaps he has 2 boxes of ammo that is slightly short and loose in his chamber; it may not be a gun problem at all but rather an ammo problem.

Its been so long since I fired factory ammo I tend to forget that they are not as careful as I am when it comes to loading!

The latest: I've measured as best I can the shoulder locations on his factory ammo. Most measure .556 to .558, I found many quite a bit shorter, on the order of .551-.554. I have 3 rounds that are misfires, they all measure .554 and shorter.

Now, on the fired cases,(I have 4 that he provided) the primer is showing that it has backed out .007,[email protected], and one a whopping .012, as near as I can measure based on setting the end of the caliper on the primer and letting the little thin dingus push down to contact the face of the brass.

In a bolt action, wouldn't that indicate a headspace issue? Is it conceiveable that something has worn that much with the relatively low rounds this gun has probably fired? Lever actions looser on the tolerance level than a bolt? Hopefully, tomorrow we will try a couple of things. I've pulled the bullets out a bit on 3 of them, the 3 misfires, and hope to chamber them singly and perhaps get a jam fit to the lands and see if we get them to fire. Then see if the primers have backed out of them like the others I have.

Am I missing anything else simple?

Well, I was suspecting a max chamber but, also, there may be other contributing factors. I had the same problem and it finally came down to replacing the hammer spring which had very slowly had become weak over the years. A slightly weakened hammer spring is more of a problem with the 35 Rem than the 30-30. I would put a new hammer spring in and clean the firing pin of old dried oil and see what happens.

Is this a project that is easily accomplished? I found a basic breakdown on the Numrich Arms website, but don't have much of a grasp on the steps needed to get the bolt assembly out and cleaned up. Is there an online description somewhere? Never had the bolt or carrier out of any lever action. I've done the majority of my tinkering on the Savage bolt action line.

Excessive headspace can be a chamber problem OR an ammunition problem OR both.

A weak spring, having to first drive a too-small cartridge forward to meet the chamber shoulder, may not have energy left to fire the primer.

Check page 7 of the owners manual for disassembly instructions:
http://www.marlinfirearms.com/pdfs/manuals/MFC_Centerfire.pdf

Remove the buttstock for access to the hammer spring. Take out the tang screw, then pull the stock straight back.

Bruce

1. Pull lever down 1/3 of the way.
2. remove lever by taking out screw at bottom of frame.
3. pull bolt straight back.
4. make sure ejector stays in place or sits in reciever correctly. There's a hole in left side of reciever by peep sight screws whwere it sits.

Forgot to say, may have a broken firing pin, I've replaced a few over the years

Remove the buttstock by removing the one screw. You will see the spring that compresses when you cock the hammer. That is the one to replace or shim with small washers that will not bind against the buttstock when it reattached.

Most likely, the firing pin itself is broken or its channel is clogged with rust and goo.

Getting the pin out of the bolt isn't rocket science but it's more involved than I want to write out here. If you can do it, you will see how it's done by visual observation anyway.

I've been doing some searching on the net and found an explanation with pictures. With the simple, straight forward directions you all were kind enough to post, even I should be able to get it out to see how it looks overall.

I will update when I get the gun back in to my hands and have a chance to check it out. In the meantime, he's using a 30-30 Marlin 336 and has already scored one! Gotta love a backup gun for times like this.

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I have just found the same problem with one of my 336s. It would fire about four out of five times. I replaced the hammer spring, it shoots just fine now.

Check the spring in yours first. Shim or replace it if in doubt.

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Please excuse my ignorance . Is a .35 Rem a rimmed or rimless caliber . If it is rimmed , like the .30-30 , then it HS'es on the rim and all of the discussion about the shoulder of the brass does not apply .

If it is rimless , Then order a no-go from Brownells , after a squeaky clean , cleaning session .

For a temporary check , look up my post on HS for a .30-30 .

Godd bless
Wyr

Just got done fixing the same thing, light pin strikes. First I tried shimming the foring pin, no go. Then I tried shimming the lever where it contacts the trigger release, (it's a lg. loop, aftermarket lever) no go. Put a new, and heavier firing pin spring in it, bang 10 for 10. I had mine lightened while it was being worked.

I haven't got the gun back to tinker with yet; we are having a hard time hooking up. I've told him I have some options to look at based on this thread and when I get it I'll update this thread.

By the way, W-twister, its a rimless with an itty-bitty shoulder.

I'd quit messing around. If the gunsmith indeed did COMPLETELY disassemble and clean the works, then replace the trigger spring and hammer spring both.. Make sure everything is squeaky clean, and use a dry lubricant- either graphite, or my choice (all I use anymore) Eezox - Google it. First, take it back to the gunsmith and have him check headspace- which he should have done when cleaning it. If he didn't, look for another gunsmith (I are one, in a former life, before I had to get honest work! ). But I'd replace both springs no matter what anyway.

Inspect the firing pin for breakage or wear, but from the sounds of it, it is goo, frozen/thickened oil, or spring problems, in that order. Those things headspace off the rim- that should also be investigated. If it is a rim headspacing problem ( that primer backing out bothers me) problem, the cheap fix is to start reloading, and headspacing off the shoulder, as I do with all my belted magnums, none of which have headspace problems. Neck sizing only with fired brass will not only solve the headspace, but will likely tighten up your groups considerably, in my experience. Just be sure to run EVERY reload thru the gun to make sure it functions smoothly before hunting with it. A further advantage of reloading is that the rifle may like something faster than the factory loads, which aren't exactly fast-tract, due to the really old guns still floating around.

Incidently, I killed my first moose up here 40 years ago with a 336 in .30-30. Worked just fine. It drowned in a sweeper incident, but I'm still packing the '94 as an everyday carry-gun on walk-abouts.

Do the mis-fires appear at random, or are they only at the beginning of the series?

Las, I appreciate the input. This gun sees nothing but factory loads (after all, its not mine and he is not a reloader). I haven't heard many real good reports about the gunsmithing capabilities of the fella that "cleaned it up". When I get it, I'll inspect it looking for all the stuff that been mentioned.

Neck sized and reload the fired ones and see if they misfire, I doubt that they will...If he was using handloads then I suspect he set the shoulder back and the firing pin pushed the case forward as opposed to punching it.

The other thing may be the barrel, at some point may have been removed and put back on, is not screwed in enough or perhaps the gun has headspace..

The firing pin spring may be weak and not striking hard enough or not installed properly..

A number of things can be wrong, and you need to take it to a gunsmith, as all you will get here is guess and by gosh..You really need to have a gun in hand to ascertain the cause.

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Ray speaks great truth.

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My Marlin .375 suffered from misfires the same as yours. No amount of cleaning or tinkering made any difference. I called Marlin and they sent me a new firing pin. It looks very different from the one I had but it dropped right in and cured all my misfires.

Good luck with yours.

UPDATE:

Replaced the pins and springs in the bolt as well as the mainspring in the tang, no improvement at all...BUT........

We compared things side by side with another 336 about the same vintage and think we've found the problem, but don't know how to fix it; he will probably send it to the factory at this point.

When you operate the lever so as to chamber a round, the bolt does not stay locked fully forward to the chamber. It acts like there is a spring between the bolt and the chamber and it pushes the bolt itself backward, I'd guess at least 20 thou.
With the hammer all the way back in the firing position, if you hold the hammer to keep it from falling quickly but let it fall all the way down, then push on the hammer (and thus against the bolt) with your thumb you can push the whole bolt assembly forward that +/- 20 thou and push it up tight to the chamber again. Even holding the lever tight to the grip, the bolt wants to push back on its own. The one we were comparing to has no such tendency no matter what we try.

I'm not comfortable going any further than I have as far as repairs so I think sending it back makes the most sense.

Just thought you'd like to know what we found, even if we didn't solve the problem.

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Thanks for the update. I agree, it's time to go to the factory.

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