Home Forums Lever Action Central Marlin Talk Ammo testers going to Africa

There is plenty more to say but it is obvious you can't find the appropriate words to do so.

Yeppers!

During my 57 years I have found that when a person resorts to name calling during an argument they have already lost whether they know it or not. I have even offered an apology without backing down but the other party was so upset and not thinking straight that they missed it. Hmmmm

Post deleted by Stetson

I have know comment at this time.That is my story and I'm sticken to it.


Jayco.

I think we ought to start all over. I'm kinda interested to hear what reflex264 has to say about that new load he's got to try out.

We all know the 45-70 is much too feeble for the job. Heck, Brian Pearce only put the 400gr Corbon through 2 full sets of buffalo shoulders in one shot in the last Rifle magazine from his 45-70. That makes it barely sufficient for small plains game and whitetail deer (doe and fawns). Stetson, grow up with the name calling you are acting like a pissy little girl, you poopy head <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

280_ACKLEY

Only one post as I do not wish to join a flame session, Stetson, you obviously did not read the original post before you posted or you deliberately chose to avoid the point of the post as it specificly pointed out "hunters going to Africa plains game hunting with .45-70 Marlins to test some of my new ammo. This load is intended for use on game up to eland (1500lbs). " You made a blanket statement that if in error ignored what the ammo was for "You do realize that the 45-70, although one of my favorites, is illigel to use in Africa as it simply does not meet the requirements of the law. It is the equivelent of using a 22 to hunt deer here." The reply with the comment about engaging your brain was directly to the point " The 45-70 is not illegal for hunting Africa. It is probably legal in all countries for plains game, which is the application reflex264 is proposing. It is restricted from use on dangerous game in some countries. " Although this could have been said in many ways, it did not call you a name. You responded " Perhaps you should try to use some self restraint and tact before you let your fingers fly ! The 45-70 is NOT legal to use in Africa on DG . " Again there was never any discussion about Dangerous Game. As for name calling it seems you started that.
I hope you do think about what you said here, if you are trolling it is not needed, if not, get your panties out of a bunch and read what is posted before you complete the post.
I hope in the future you would respond to threads in a more positive manner. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Well their you have have it. You read it in a magazine so it must be true. I read the article as well and the thing I was left wondering at the end was exactly HOW they determined that the initial shot went through the first animal to kill the second ? When I read the article it appears to me that the author indicates he shot more than once. He ads to that he had trouble seeing the target but he knows exactly where his shots went <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> No matter what you choose to believe the 45-70 is Not legal for DG in Africa. You are either poaching or shooting on a put and take high fence operation. If you choose to idelize that sort of publicity stunt feel free. It will not change the law. Their is little to prove in that the 45-70 is capable. Not the best choice or a wise choice but capable. Just as a poacher uses a 22 to kill a deer. Do we come out with articles and high powered ammo for that purpose in a 22 ? I miss the point myself. The 45-70 is well over a hundred years old. Beefing it up to max loads, making it something it is not, and never will be, serves little purpose IMO.

"Only one post as I do not wish to join a flame session"

Perhaps you should take some of your own advice. I did in fact misread the first post. Sue me. I made a error. I corrected it only to be called ignorant, blah blah blah. I rather doubt that if using poorly placed words or misreading a post was a felony, that their would be a single member here that would not be a convict. I completely MISSED the part in the initial post about being for plains game. My error. There are those who like to berate folks when they make errors. You might consider starting a new forum on a more positive note as well. Some times taking your own advice is a tuff pill to swallow.

Stetson, Did you or did you not initially post that any 45-70 factory ammo was adequate for African plains game? If you want to continue to avoid my challenge of that statement that is fine but I don't think anyone is above accountability for what they write here. Whether or not they misread a post. Again, someone writes something I don't agree with I'm gonna respond. I expect the same, but it at least should be relevant to the discussion and respond directly to the issue. You seem to have a problem with that.

I do not know what else to tell ya. Accountability is just fine with me. That is exactly why I said I missed the part about the plains game. If you are confused by that it means I DID NOT SEE IT. In essence I am accepting responability for my error. You seem to have a problem with that.

Thanks for not answering my question, for a second time.

"I am accepting responability for my error. You seem to have a problem with that."

What I am getting at has nothing to do with your original post. I am not pursuing this due to the error you describe. I can see that you did not see the post was about plains game and you thought it was about DG. You and I agree that most African countries preclude the use of the 45-70 for dangerous game. However, in a subsequent post when I think it was clear we were talking about plains game you seemed to be saying that any 45-70 factory ammo would be adequate for all African plains game and I am just trying to find out if that is what you meant and if so why you think it is so. Is it because you erred about that too and that is why you changed your post? The edits I made only added information to my posts, not changing their meaning, while your edits changed your meaning and for some reason you also felt it necessary to delete a post. I guess I don't care anymore as explanations about what you meant don't seem forthcoming and it appears you refuse to back up what you say.



In any event I guess no one that is going on an upcoming plains game hunt is going to take reflex264 up on his offer.

The vast majority of what I edited out were unpleasantries. There was only one exception strictly for your benefit as you were so senitive and literal. I see you changed the nature of several posts of your own. I understand perfectly what you are after and I already answered your question...twice. I honestly think the only reason you would like to see that nailed down is so you can have another issue to argue about. This seems to be what you do here. Yes, I indeed did say any factory load would do. I was of course assuming that any one going on a hunt would be capable of picking a appropriate load to the task. Their are several Factory premium loads readily available. I even divulged the brand and type I prefer. If you consider that a non answer I expect you might have to deal with it as it is my final answer.

In any event I can not imagine that any one would really take ammo from a unknown maker ( to the best of my knowledge) that is unproven on a hunt costing several thousand dollars from a unknown source off the internet. For the sum benefit of a free box of ammo.

Thank you. Just remember that no one can read our assumptions if they aren't expressed. That makes this form of communication a difficult one sometimes.

Now that the ruckus is over,I think the bullet that reflex is trying should be one of the best 45-70 jacketed bullet made.A 380 grain Hawk with a .050 jacket.It has to be a killer with penetration and expantion at 45-70 velocities.Just like the new Super Jack (woodleigh)from Garrett.It's never been better for those that use the 45-70 or .450 Marlin in my opinion.Jayco.

I just read the last 2 issues of Rifle Magazine, with Brian Pearce in Africa, successfully shooting plains game and Buffalo (2) with the 45-70 Marlin. If you have not read it yet, may I recommend you do so.

It makes good reading.

Good evening gentlemen! This is quite a surprise. Mr. Stetson, I am sorry that my post alarmed you so. We all make mistakes and I hope you truly understand yours. As for expermemtal ammo I believe you missed the point of the original post. While this ammo is new it can't exactly be called experimental. That is why I spend the cash before hunters get my ammo. The experimenting is done here and at one of the best labs in the country. As for the load, it is based on existing designs that already work. Just making a few improvements to make it a better performer in our lever guns. I don't think Hawk bullets need a introduction. They have been there and done that all over the world. Andy Hill of Hawk suggested trying something a little different to improve certain aspects of the performance with current loads and designs. After lengthy stints on the phone and imput from Alaskan guides and African hunters that had already used Hawks bullets in Africa we decided on the final design and construction of the bullet. If anyhing it should outperform virtually any expanding bullet load ever loaded in 45-70 cartridges. This is my goal. As far as testing goes before any of these loaded cartridges are shipped they are abuse tested beyond any cartridges that I know of. Loaded cartridges are submersed in water for extended periods then frozen for days. The ammo is then heated to 156 degrees (F).This abused ammo is then test fired with control ammo also pulled at random. In firing this ammo together std. deviation has never exceeded 22fps. Pressure testing is done on ammo also pulled at random. Lab sheets on un-abused ammo have had std. deviations never exceeding single digits with extreme spreads never more than 25fps. In all of he testing we have never been able to cause a single mis-fire. As far as field testers are concerned I have had little trouble finding them. In field testing I have only heard from one tester that didn't get what I call satisfactory accuarcy but he also tried to work up a load with the same bullet in his gun and it just refused to shoot them to my satisfaction. I think I have a page saved by one of my testers from the old Marlin Talk. If I can find it I'll post it here. There is a very good reason for sending ammo to Africa. It is one thing to say it will do it and another to say it did do it. regards to all,reflex264

Maybe all of you guys are carry overs from MT and know each other. The thing is many of us still have no idea who you are or more important what company you represent. More info would be nice. I spend way to much money on a hunt to loose a animal to ammo. Ammo failures happen. I have had bad ammo from Weatherby and some real %^* from corbon twice. Maybee you could fill in your profile or tell us more about your goals or the products you intend to sell. In your last post you indicate that you feel "hawk" bullets need no introduction. Maybe I missed that in your origional post. In either event introductions are often helpfull in establishing new relationships. I am sure many of us would like to hear more as well as see the lab results. As you said, it is one thing to say its so and another to show it.