Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Disease ravaging MN wolf pups

TooTech,


Great LOL

Wrong. A species can be affected by the right disease at any time in its "growth curve". The idea that disease is "nature's" way of dealing with overpopulation is fantasy biology. Disease is just another competing species looking for a host.


Exponential? It will be interesting to see the future population levels. What is your prediction?


Wrong. The MN population has leveled out. The WI and MI populations are still increasing steadily.

Epidemiology has nothing to do with carrying capacity or the population "maturity" per se. The availability, transmission mode, novelty and virulence of a disease are the determining factors.


My agenda is making sure the whole story gets out.


Then your characterization that the USFWS was behaving based solely on politics appears wrong.


I'm not sure you understand what a DPS is (of course no one really does since it is a fiction(read:politics)). That argument would support the MN wolves as being a contiguous part of the Canadian populations and hence not needing protection. If all other wolf populations were not DPS then they would not need protection since obviously wolves in North America as a whole are very healthy and in no way in need of protection under the ESA.


The whole listing premise (and hence the delisting requirements) is based on the DPS myth promulgated by the environmental radicals. There is no gene flow needed between the rocky mountain populations because they are the same species hence no listing needed in the first place. End of story.



Then classifying it as endangered under the ESA is junk science as clearly the wolf is not an endangered species taken on the whole.


Do you have any evidence for these accusations?

The pedestal the wolf holds amongst the disney channel outdoors crowd is ivory now that they have the ability to pack the courts. (read: politics)

While wolves may not be the scourge of the earth there is a reason they were trapped and hunted to near extinction, they negativly affect elk herds and that is plenty of reason for me. Wolves have ruined elk hunting in several parts of Wyoming. Only the simple minded can't see this.

Mother Nature, I love the.

+ 1
The people of generations past did so out of necessity. They were connected to the land in ways the bunny huggers can't understand.

Just maybe they were a little smarter than this generation

I don't beleive that HUSA and PETA are doing it because they care about the wolves they care about putting as many people out of the hunting business as possible and this is just another little nip and tuck at our life style. Anybody who sides with them needs to understand their goal is to end hunting by any and all means.

Nope. The wolves are dying of "natural" lead poisoning from eating Minnesota deer - as opposed to "unnatural" lead poisoning from Minnesota deer rifles.

GE

Just not fast enough.... GRuMBL GRUMBL

I wish there were more "unnatural" incidents happening.

I kinda doubt that sir, in fact I believe it would be about as successful as the vote banning hounds used for hunting bear was here in Idaho, which failed miserably. You must know different Idahoan's than I am familiar with.

I'm standing right here watching you make up stuff again. But, carry on if it thrills ya.

As for the subject, Mn wolves have struggled with parvo cycles since the 70's, as it states in W-man's article. Yellowstone's pop was reduced by parvo in recent history. Its well documented. As Casey stated, disease is just one of the limiting factors in either population. The 2008 MNDNR wolf report is avail for those interested in the rest of the story.

Here's a picture I took a couple of weeks ago through my foggy kitchen window. I see woofs in the yard every few weeks. The pictured woof booked when I opened the window so I didn't get a good photo. I had deer in the yard that same evening. That's a wire cage around an apple tree in the foreground. There are so many deer around that I have to cage any tree that I want to live. That woof looks like it might have decent fur. I really want a coat.
Gettin' a lot of snow. Hope all the deer don't die this year.....gotta get the fish house out....fresh walleye would be good.....Hey, isn't this the elk hunting section?

Yes, I've noticed the same thing. Wolves go where the deer are.

I suspect parvo will continue to be somewhat of a limiting factor to all wolves. When a population becomes "immune" due to exposure or vaccination, that immunity doesn't convey to the offspring with a lifetime immunity. Any new pups will get temporary immunity through the first milk (colostrum) that will last 10-12 weeks. After that point, the new pups are able to get the disease. It is probable that we will see cycles of parvo in wild wolves as they expand and get near cities where dogs will be transmitting the disease.

Cute. Do you just have nothing to do, or what? I'm never sure whether you simply miss the point or if you are again trying to dishonestly disassemble a point, like you constantly do with information sources; for example, as you misrepresented Mech's findings. Folks tend to read what they want to, even in technical papers (its something professionals train themselves to not do). But you seem to take it to a new level which makes me believe you are just being dishonest. You may even be playing your game of pretending other posters write such stupid things that they are not to be trusted. I swear you must be a defense attorney.

Anyway, the sentence you quoted was meant as evidence against the oft-parroted "fact" that when wolves "move into" an area, all the game disappears for days, even weeks. This is obviously not always, or even usually the case.

Because of apparent comprehension problems, I suppose I should try to explain the 1,000 words which the photo was meant to be worth. I obviously have an overbrowsed yard and there are wolves here; always have been; never been exterpated; again making it obvious that even an unhunted and robust wolf pop. doesn't "wipe out all the game." It also should show that the oft-parroted (by some here) "fact" that the "game hides by the houses because the wolves won't kill them there" is so much balderdash. Wolves hunt right in my yard, especially at night.

Hope that helped.

Now don't be offended if I don't reply to further posts. I'm not on forums very often this time of the year and I've lost interest in the wolf debate since there seems to be no hunting season in sight. You guys carry on without me. Spread the knowledge.

Interesting to me was the hue and cry against Wolf introduction in Wyoming. I'd say 90% in the state were against it for many reasons, virtually all of which came true. Shoved down our throats it were.

LOL not matter how much BS is spread the truth remains the same.

They just killed a pact up in western Montana the other day that had been going after lots of livestock. The offical count on the Pack was 14 when the dust cleared the dead count on that pack was 27. Hmmmmmmmmmm I sure wish I could get away with that kind of math on my taxes.

Glad to hear it, myself. Wish the ones in Idaho would catch it.

All BS just another plan to derail the delisting.

I think the fact that you have always had wolves and deer is significant.

In BC there are areas with plenty of elk and wolves,elk there know how to deal with wolves as a result of many generations of conditioning.

That is not how things have worked in the areas where they have been reintroduced,there are vast areas in Idaho that have mere remnants of their once thriving elk populations.

Cow elk there had learned to calve together in open country, a really good way to defend against a lone black bear or lion,very bad to have all the babies in the same opening when the wolf pack shows up.

Perhaps in a few generations,if elk still exist in huntable numbers,they will adapt to wolves,or perhaps they will be virtually extirpated from wolf range,the classic prey/predator cycle.

I think wolves belong in wilderness country where they have always thrived, I am a lot less enthusiastic about reintroducing non native wolves to country where livestock is only a short trip away,where prey species are unprepared by generations of conditioning to deal with the predators.Placement of subartic Canadian wolves in the lower 48 seems utterly analagous to introduction of other nonnative flora and fauna,think kudzu with fangs.

Wolves in Montana ranch country make as much sense to me as cattle in the Alaska wilderness,a time and place for everything,it just makes sense to most reasonable people.

British Columbia is experiencing a significant increase in the wolf population in most areas of the Province.I'm seeing wolf tracks in almost every Mulie wintering area that I visit,and these are not areas that I have ever seen wolf sign in before.Some of these packs are quite large(10-14 animals),while most seem to average about 6 wolves,and in several places I've seen single tracks(possible pack dispertion?)In any case our Game Management Unit was the only one in BC with no wolf season,and that is going to change soon.I don't believe that wolf populations can be controlled by sport hunting,our area is too vast and some is innaccessible.However I'm more than willing to grab the Foxpro and try and do my bit to thin them out!We're lucky,at least we have Provincial control and can hunt them,in problem areas there is no bag limit.I haven't heard of any Parvo in our wolves,but I know mange can affect them in some areas. Monashee