Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles RL-17 is going to be a very interesting powder

Bumped into this article on RL-17.

http://www.6mmbr.com/reloder17.html

"RL-17 is a slow powder, very roughly speaking, somewhere between H4350 and H4831"

"Reloader 17's unique penetrating burn-rate regulator smooths out the pressure curve, allowing RL17 to maintain high energy for a longer period of time."


This is billed as being very different than other powders. I look forward to giving it a try. Last I read it will be introduced to the market in March.

Not carried anywhere I've looked.

I gave up on it, and have gotten into H100V..

Interesting info. I'd like to see more data on the RL-17 as it becomes available. I do worry about the "free lunch" of 200 fps increase with no pressure increase. If it seems too good to be true, etc.

Steve

Steve,

Did you read Bob Jensen used a Ohler 43 with a strain gauge and determined loads that were within the pressure limits? The "magic" to this unique powder (quote): "After RL-17 hits peak pressure, the energy level doesn't drop as rapidly as with other powders. So there is more energy pushing your bullet for a longer time."

I would like to see some slower versions of this powder in the future.

Got a pound last week........haven't done anything with it yet though.

Plan to try it in 25-o6, 270 & 280.

MM

Where did you found it. Everywhere I have looked has it out of stock and none of the stores have it locally.

Keep us informed, as this powder has the potential to change a lot of things for a lot of midrange cartridges (if it lives up to the hype).

Alliants data isn't too spectacular. Does Alliant even make it's own powder or.....is this being bought somewhere and already in existance under another name....ie possibly a VV spin off???

Azshooter,

I did read about the tests with the strain gauge. Just not sure I'm willing to believe it, based on nothing more than the "free lunch" syndrome. But I would be delighted if it were to proven accurate. I'm a true believer in free lunches, just don't think they occur that often.

Lil Gun, which I use in my 22Hornet, has a relatively flat pressure curve, which I take full advantage of. I'd be glad to make the RL-17 my powder of choice. Just would like to get some verification of the data from other sources.
And then, I'd try to buy some of it, which seems problematical for the time being.

I'll stay tuned. And thanks for the info.

Steve

not to change the subject but what bullets are you running with lil gun in your hornet and what kind of speeds are you getting.

armst,

13.0 Lil Gun/40gr BT or V-Max/2900-3000 fps in my Ruger #1.

It seem to be a pretty well respected Campfire load.

Check the Hodgden site for pressure data.

Steve

I use RL19 in my 300WSM, it looks like you get a few more fps with RL17?

I happen to know Bob Jensen, the guy doing the pressure testing. He is a long time hi-power shooter and a very knowledgable rifleman. If his testing shows velocity gains over other powders I believe him.

Here is the link for Alliant's article on RL-17.

http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com/2008/02/12/alliant-releases-new-reloder-17-powder/

Quotes from above linked article:

"Reloder 17, a state-of-the-art propellant, promises to deliver higher velocities than competitive powders for many popular calibers."

"This is an all-new, double-base powder produced in Switzerland by NitroChemie for Alliant. It is a high-energy powder with a burn rate close to IMR 4350, and �midway between Reloder 15 and Reloder 19.�

I couldn't copy and paste their velocity gain chart. It has impressed me.

One more quote:

"Reloder� 17 was created with new technology to provide velocity greater than the competition in the most popular standard rifle calibers and the new short magnums."

It can be bought here:

RL17

IMR 4350 has been my goto powder for 160 Partitions in my 270 as well as 165 Speers out of the 300 H&H.Given the mid point between 4350 and 4831 I suspect that R-17 just might be interesting.

the part about the pressure spikes being reduced is very interesting to me. It sounds like I need to try it.

I would like to find out what a starting load and max would be for a 338-06. Since it is in the neighborhood of 4350 it ought to work real well in the 338-06.

Locally.........had asked if it was available couple of weeks earlier and they got some in shortly after.

Don't know what distributors have yet it though but I'm betting Powder Valley will get it soon.

MM

Powder Valley is sold out. checked earlier today. A buddy of mine ordered 10 lbs from them a while back. He will sell me a lb so I can get started. Not worth paying the hazmat fee for a couple of lbs.

As soon as I get it figured out in my 284 I'll come back and share.

I believe R17 is practically the same as Norma URP. Just like R15 correlates to N203B, R22 to MRP, R25 to MRP-2...
BBerg

I see enough to try it in a 22/250, when used in a fast twist barrel and 75 and 80 grain A Max and match bullets...

I bought one pound (shoulda bought more) of it a couple of months ago. I had a terrible time finding data. I called Alliant and asked for starting loads for 7x57 and the 257 Roberts. The guy I talked to said RL-17 would be an excellent choice for those calibers but had no idea where to start because Speer was doing all the testing. The funny thing is that he didn't tell me not to use it, instead he asked me to call him back with my results after trying it. To make a long story short I started with 7-08 data for the 7x57 and accuracy was excellent. I got over 100 fps faster than my max loads of RL-19 or Imr 4350. I haven't gotten around to trying it in the 257 yet.

Me too...

bhtr


[img][IMG]http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh96/bearhuntr/reloder17chart.gif[/img][/img]

Nohting on their list impresses me much...

remember this is lawyer approved.. so the potential is probably alot better...

I don't let lawyers shoot my rifles any... so why should it be any of their concern...

could this be the powder used in Hornady Light Magnum loads?

CALIBER BULLET VELOCITY GAIN
243 Win 85 gr. HP 3316 +48
243 WSM 70 gr HP 3745 +198
243 WSM 80 gr SP 3512 +80
243 WSM 85 gr BTSP 3452 +178
6mm Rem 70 gr HP 3682 +89
6mm Rem 80 gr SP 3500 +112
6mm Rem 85 gr BTSP 3441 +156
270 WSM 100 gr HP 3668 +23
270 Win 100 gr HP 3554 +118
280 Rem 110 gr HP 3397 +111
280 Rem 130 gr BTSP 3167 +33
7 mm WSM 110 gr HP 3588 +163
7 mm WSM 130 gr BTSP 3356 +126
7 mm WSM 145 gr BTSP 3166 +87
30-06 150 gr BTSP 3006 +159
30-06 165 gr BTSP 2874 +71
300 WSM 150 gr BTSP 3343 +74
300 WSM 165 gr BTSP 3217 +50
300 WSM 180 gr BTSP 3082 +104
300 Win Mag 150 gr BTSP 3333 +32
325 WSM 150 gr Semi-SP 3348 +45
325 WSM 170 gr Semi-SP 3131 +57
325 WSM 200 gr SP 2897 +60





Reloder� 17 was created with new technology to provide velocity greater than the competition in the most popular standard rifle calibers and the new short magnums. Following are recipes developed in our Ballistics Laboratory (all loads used Speer bullets and list the correct Overall Length- DO NOT SEAT THE BULLETS TO A LESS OVERALL LENGTH). These recipes are maximum loads and shall not be exceeded.

LOAD DATA RECIPES FOR RELODER� 17

Caliber Bullet Case Primer COAL Chg Wgt Velocity
223 WSM 55 gr SP Fed Fed 210 2.210 46.6 3865
243 Win 80 gr SP Fed Fed 210 2.615 44.0 3362
243 Win 85 gr HP Fed Fed 210 2.625 43.7 3316
243 Win 100 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 2.625 40.8 3044
243 WSM 70 gr HP Fed Fed 210 2.185 49.0C 3745
243 WSM 80 gr SP Fed Fed 210 2.255 44.5 3512
243 WSM 85 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 2.255 45.5 3452
243 WSM 100 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 2.290 41.0 3128
6mm Rem 70 gr HP Fed Fed 210 2.775 48.5C 3682
6mm Rem 80 gr SP Fed Fed 210 2.775 46.7 3500
6mm Rem 85 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 2.775 46.0 3441
6mm Rem 100 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 2.800 44.0 3163
25-06 87 gr SP Fed Fed 210 3.115 54.5 3547
25-06 120 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 3.200 48.5 3046
6.5x55(mil) 90 gr HP Fed Fed 210 2.850 48.5 3223
6.5x55(mil) 120 gr SP Fed Fed 210 3.000 41.5 2741
260 Rem 120 gr SP Fed Fed 210 2.720 44.0 2912
260 Rem 140 gr SP Fed Fed 210 2.745 41.0 2645
270 WSM 100 gr HP Fed Fed 215 2.730 67.5 3668
270 WSM 130 gr BTSP Fed Fed 215 2.700 62.0 3258
270 WSM 150 gr BTSP Fed Fed 215 2.700 60.0 3041
270 Win 100 gr HP Fed Fed 210 3.100 59.0 3554
270 Win 130 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 3.200 54.0 3136
270 Win 150 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 3.200 51.5 2921
280 Rem 110 gr HP Fed Fed 210 3.200 59.5 3397
280 Rem 130 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 3.205 56.0 3167
280 Rem 145 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 3.180 53.0 2968
280 Rem 160 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 3.200 51.5 2825
280 Rem 175 gr GS Fed Fed 210 3.265 50.5 2674
7 WSM 110 gr HP Win Fed 215 2.770 69.5 3588
7 WSM 130 gr BTSP Win Fed 215 2.775 66.5 3356
7 WSM 145 gr BTSP Win Fed 215 2.760 63.5 3166
7 WSM 160 gr BTSP Win Fed 215 2.820 60.0 2964
7 mm-08 110 gr HP Fed Fed 210 2.760 50.5C 3169
7 mm-08 115 gr HP Fed Fed 210 2.655 49.5C 3107
7 mm-08 130 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 2.730 48.5C 3007
7 mm-08 145 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 2.730 46.0 2819
7 mm-08 160 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 2.800 44.0 2669
7 mm-08 175 gr GS Fed Fed 210 2.745 44.0 2574
7 mm RM 110 gr HP Fed Fed 215 3.200 68.0 3535
7mm RM 130 gr BTSP Fed Fed 215 3.200 63.5 3255
7 mm RM 145 gr BTSP Fed Fed 215 3.210 61.8 3113
7mm RM 160 gr BTSP Fed Fed 215 3.210 59.0 2931
7 mm RM 175 gr GS Fed Fed 215 3.215 67.0 2774
7mm RM 150 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 2.700 50.0C 2763
308 Win 165 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 2.800 50.0C 2739
308 Win 180 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 2.800 48.7C 2641
30-06 150 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 3.250 58.0 3006
30-06 165 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 3.250 56.5 2874
30-06 168 gr BTHP Fed Fed 210 3.295 56.0 2850
30-06 180 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 3.250 54.5 2762
30-06 200 gr SP Fed Fed 210 3.250 51.0 2552
300 WSM 150 gr BTSP Fed Fed 215 2.810 69.3 3343
300 WSM 165 gr BTSP Fed Fed 215 2.810 68.0 3217
300 WSM 180 gr BTSP Fed Fed 215 2.800 66.0 3082
300 WM 150 gr BTSP Fed Fed 215 3.330 74.0 3333
300 WM 165 gr BTSP Fed Fed 215 3.340 72.5 3202
300 WM 180 gr BTSP Fed Fed 215 3.340 70.5 3074
325 WSM 150 gr S-SP Win Fed 215 2.850 71.5 3348
325 WSM 170 gr S-SP Win Fed 215 2.790 65.0 3131
325 WSM 200 gr SP Win Fed 215 2.840 65.0 2897
338 WM 200 gr SP Fed Fed 215 3.300 71.0 3002
338 WM 225 gr BTSP Fed Fed 215 3.340 67.5 2831
338 WM 250 gr GS Fed Fed 215 3.300 66.0 2664

This is a good thread. I hadn't heard about RL-17 coming out. If they were able to keep the powder buring longer, and increasing the area under the pressure curve, we'll get more velocity. I'll see if I can order a pound locally.
Thanks for the thread, and the data to use as a starting point.

I e-mailed alliant and asked them when they would test Barnes bullets. They didn't know. So I e-mailed Barnes and asked them if they have done any testing with RL17. They said no, they haven't received any power to test with. I sent the Barnes message to alliant, never heard anything back. You would think it would be good business to get your power out there and get the testing done. I would think if alliant gave the bullet manufacturers the power they could get their testing done free. It would be a win win.

Yep, I agree.
Checked locally and no one ever heard of it...

I get the impression the availability is still quite limited. I just picked up 2lbs a week ago and the production date was 12 Dec. I am guessing testing will expand once the availability is there to meet increased demand. I will be trying it in my 338-06. Still trying to figure out how to determine starting loads.

I have been trying to buy some for about 3 months now. None of the local shops seem to be able to get any. I have seen it online but if only ordering a couple of pounds to try the hazmat fees make it pretty pricey. I will for sure try some when I can get it, should be super in my 300WSM.

Am interested for both my 6.5mm Rem Mag and 350 Rem Mag. Anything to help out those short mag cases with all bullet weights. Could be veeeeeeerrrrrrrrrryyyyy interesting!!!!

Is the RL-17 temperature stable, like RL-15? Because RL-19 is not temp stable, you can lose quite a few fps going from warm work-up temp to cold hunting temp per JB in his article about "Handloads That Work"

The 120 tsx in my 7wsm at 3400+ should be a real attention getter, and should be a real flat shooter.

A question for the experienced loaders out there. There is no data for the 338-06 and RL-17, however, in looking at loads for similar cartridges (30-06, 35 Whelen) that have data for both RL-15 and RL-17 the RL-15 loads are consistently 8%-12% less than the RL-17 load for that same round. So, would it be reasonable to use the 338-06 RL-15 loads as a starting point for RL-17? Just trying to get to a good safe starting point for the 338-06 and then have some expectation for what a max should be. Would Quickload do that?

From 6mmBR website: someone had posted they thought it might be Norma URP, the post below claims no.
A month or so ago, some site had a pic of a ship, with the caption "40,000 lbs of RL17 in transit", or something like that. Now Graf's has it, and Powder Valley sez they will have it Jan 6.

"July 6, 2008
Alliant Reloder 17 Ships in Late July
Filed under: News � Editor @ 11 am
Alliant Powder, a division of Alliant Tech Systems Inc., (ATK), has confirmed that the new Reloder 17 powder will ship out later this month. This is definite. The powder is going out to distributors within 2 to 3 weeks. Alliant had originally intended to start shipping Reloder 17 by mid-April, but there were some production-line delays relating to packaging. Reloder 17 is made in Switzerland by NitroChemie and Alliant had to make some modifications to its production line to be compatible with NitroChemie�s bulk powder containers.

We are very excited about the new Swiss-made Reloder 17 for Alliant. It is a high-energy powder with a burn rate close to IMR 4350, and �midway between Reloder 15 and Reloder 19.� The powder density is optimized for the short magnum cases such as the 7mm WSM and 300 WSM, but it also will work very well with cartridges such as .243 Win, .270 Win, 6XC, and 6mm Remington, according to Alliant Product Manager Dick Quesenberry.

Reloder 17 features an advanced, penetrant-type kernel coating. Alliant believes this is superior to typical surface powder coatings because it provides a more consistent, progressive burn. The powder pressures do not spike as sharply as with surface-coated powders, but remain more consistent throughout the burning process.

Mr. Quesenberry noted that Alliant tested many formulations, from a variety of makers, before choosing the Swiss-made Reloder 17. Alliant�s new RL17 is NOT the same as Norma URP, produced by Bofors in Europe. According to Alliant, the new Reloder 17 tested superior to URP (and most other powders in that burn range) in all major criteria: Velocity, Accuracy, ES/SD, material consistency, and resistance to ambient temperature-induced pressure changes.

The new RL17 will be offered in 1-lb. and 5-lb. containers and will cost about the same as other Alliant Reloder powders, such as RL15 and RL19.

RE 15 is great this looks even better

I shot some RL17 today in my 338-06. I did not have any book numbers to work with so I looked at loads for other cartridges and compared to known loads for the 338-06. For today, I loaded one bullet each starting at 53 grains and went up to 59 (.5 gn increments from 55-59). Bullet was a 225 Accubond set to an OAL of 3.37, and primers were BR-2s and the barrel is 22". 53 and 54 seemed too low. 55 is my guess for a very conservative starting point (2426). It started to compress very slightly at 58. Velocity started going over 2600 at 58 grains. Interestingly the velocity was the same at 59 grains. There were no pressure signs at all. Now that I have an idea of where to work, next time I'll do groups from 58 to 60, or so. As a comparison, I get the same velocity with 61-61.5 grains of H4350 as I did with 58 grains of RL-17. Mind you, this is determined with single data points for the RL-17 so it's not exactly robust analysis.

I bought some today at gander mountain going to try it in 223 wssm

I had two tubs turn up today...will be loading it in my 7mmSAUM tonight will try it in the 243AI as well....but we dont expect more in stocks for mounths over here so will have to savour what I have......A freind is getting 3100+ with his 243AI and the 105 amax and 7mm WSM with the 162 amax....good enough reason for me to try some

Anyone burned it in the Whelen yet?

I want to try some in a 257 Roberts.

How big is a tub?

Lot's of R17 on the shelves here.

I just picked up a pound from my guy with a component-stuffed-closet in his radiator shop. He had quite a bit.

Been putting together loads for my Springfield w/ 165s. Gonna try some 215 SGKs through my 338-06, and would like to see what it can do in my 257 AI w/ 100s, as I get 3320 fps from IMR-4350.

Interesting stuff indeed!

A couple friends and I are running '17 in 3 of our 243AI's. We're all running about the exact same load w/moly'd 105Amax's and getting 3250fps in all of them. Barrel lengths vary from 22"-24"s. One of my buddies is also running it in his 7wsm w/moly'd 162Amax's and getting 3125fps in the 22" barrel.

I tested some RL17 yesterday with 150's in my 300 WSM. I was shocked to see 3400 fps on my chronograph and no apparent pressure signs. I plan to retest with it. It wasn't exactly accurate as I'd like with my bullet choices but I think it will be. The only thing that scares me about its use is the unacceptable temperature variations I get with the other RL powders.

............I`m not really surprised at your 3400 fps result. Alliant says 69.3 gr of RL17 gets 3343 fps using a 150 gr Speer and 24" barrel. What 150 gr bullet and charge weight did you use?

From my 16.5" barreled 300 WSM Ruger Frontier compact, 69 gr RL17 using a 155 VLD gave me 3234 fps with no presuure signs and moa groupings.

I just need some start loads, I would love to try some with my whelen and some 225 gr TSX's.

150 Accubond with 70 gr.'s RL17 went 3400 fps
150 Accubond with 69 gr.'s RL17 went 3300 fps

One thing people are failing to take notice to is, the published data on RL-17's chart is info taken out of Speers newest reloading manual, which gives very conservative loads in general. I have compared several of my other reloading manuals data on several calibers (Nosler 6 and Hornady's newest (7) I think). Speers reloading data is definately conservative compared to others data. Therefore the gains are easily attained over Speers data. I have a lb of RL-17, but I have not used any yet.

Those are appear to be pretty warm loads.
Guessing 68 grains would be about max for 150's in my rifles.

Have you shot any 180's in the rifle yet?

Anybody have good success with it in a 270 WSM? I have some 130 partitions and E-tips loaded up, but haven't gotten to the range yet.

I have tried it in my 270 wsm, Ramshot magnum was my go to powder with 150 gr bullets, was getting about 3000 fps but I would lose about a 100 fps when the temp got below 60 degrees.

Rifle: Win model 70, 24 inch bbl
56.5 gr 150 gr Barmes X bullet, 2925 fps 1 in group
59 gr 150 gr nosler partition, 2970 fps .569 inch group
63.2 gr 130 barnes xlc, 3220 fps, 1 1/16 inch group
I used winchester mag primers for all loads

Freddy, Is this info with RL-17 ?

Rifle: Win model 70, 24 inch bbl
56.5 gr 150 gr Barmes X bullet, 2925 fps 1 in group
59 gr 150 gr nosler partition, 2970 fps .569 inch group
63.2 gr 130 barnes xlc, 3220 fps, 1 1/16 inch group
I used winchester mag primers for all loads

Thanks

Yes it is, by the way this powder works good in my 284.

Thanks Freddy

I just tried some in my 25-06; haven't chronoe'd it yet but it put five Speer 100-grain BTSPs into 3/4" all with brand new brass.

I did a quick preasure test with the 7mmSAUM and the 162 amax, loaded from 57gr - 59.5gr and velocites accheaved where good. 2960-3157fps....But the 59.5 had a tight bolt lift, extractor mark and is to hot to get the brass to last (was a hot day as well)
So have loaded more at 57.5 & 58gr to test groups.....they got 3080 & 3110fps

The down side appears to be barrel life with the HOT loads, some of the target boys with the 6.5x284 are getting 2-300 less shots before the throat is fried.....but that was with hot loads so hope its not to bad with averagely hot loads

anyone have any loads for 130 grain bullets in 284 Winchester for reloader 17?

This is an example OF ONE but it looks very interesting to me. I've tried all the usual suspects in a little custom .284 (2.95" magazine) with a 23" tube and got all the usual expected velocities with the 140-gr TTSX, a very long bullet, that dips into the case .3" below the neck base to be seated to correct OAL for my magazine. While the expected velocities are not disrespectfull-2900-2950 fps-a load of 53-grs of R17 (worked up to) opened my eyes and required repeated shots through the "lie-detector" device to comfirm I had indeed hit 3150 fps consistently. This is with no flattened primers, no sticky cases, no ejector marks, etc. I know these traditional signs are said to be unreliable and that velocity is the ultimate truth-teller about high pressure, but that is when powders act in the "usual" way. I've backed off to 52-gr. to salve my conservative nature but I still hit 3075-3100 fps and this is still a good 125-150 fps over the nearest rival, H4350.

And, I should add, three of these pointy TTSXs will fit into < .50" at 100 yds.

So, to answer your question, I'd start at 49-grs. and work up.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one getting significant velocity increases.

In the 308 Win (20.5" bbl), I'm getting,
208 AMax to 2645 fps, (3.00" oal)
200 SGK to 2720 fps, (2.81" oal)

In the 30-06 (22.5" bbl), 208 AMax to 2760.
In the 30-06 (24" bbl), 130 TTSX to 3430 fps.

Hey Montana Marine, if you were trying 165grn Sierras in a 22.5 " barrel where would you start and what do you think would be the max. amount and velocity with RL-17? I know you are guesstimating and it is all my responsibilty to work up the load. Buckfever 1

Buckfever, I haven't worked up anything in 165 or close to it.

My max loads without pressure signs on the brass were 56gr for the 208 AMax, and 67gr under the 130 TTSX. Max for the 165 would probably be around 60-63 gr in my rifle, and probably somewhere around 3000 fps. Just guesses.

Keep in mind I'm using fairly roomy Win and Norma brass, and moly coating my bullets.

Thanks Montana Marine. I will stop @ 60 grn. if tolerated by my firearm which should give me 2900+ fps with non-Sierra bullets. I use relatively new Win. brass and no moly. With the Sierras I like to use less velocity because they have a long bearing surface and pressure will be a problem earlier. That long bearing surface is part of the reason for their great accuracy. The most effective fps for bullet upset @ target is 2700- 2000, don't need extra velocity. Thanks for your help I will try RL-17 with my other bullets. Buckfever 1