Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles 223 Autoloader Options???

What is the full gamut of options for 223 auto loaders?

1) AR-15/ M-4 etc
2) Mini -14
3) HK -93
4) Daewoo
5) M-96
6) Galil

What else is there?
There are a ton of HK91 clones and variants but what about the HK93?

If I could purchase an M-4 modified by HK with that new pistion op rod action I would buy one right now today! The M-96 doesn't seem to have the accuracy, the Galil mags are too expensive and the Ar-15 has questionable reliability...

Can you help a brother out here...??? heh heh heh

of all your options, i most definately support the ar15-m4.

outstanding rifle. i have run 3-400 rounds over the course of a day plinking at the range. no jams. no malfunctions. i shoot a rock river arms rifle. sum moa accuracy at 100 yards off a sandbag w/a 16" bbl. when i get my new digi-cam i'll post pix of targets and loads. weighs 8lbs w/a 30rd. mag in place, or 7.5lbs w/a 10 rounder.

i do have experience with a ruger mini-14. don't bother. i am a fairly good shot, with my personal best hunting achievement being a 360 yd. headshot on a doe freehand. in one eye and out the other. she never took another step. i don't think i could hit the a barn with a mini-14 from the inside with the doors closed. if you'll notice, all those guys shooting mini-14s on that old campy show, The A-Team never actually hit anything or anybody with 'em.

have no experience with the other stuff you mentioned, but will tell you that purchasing a product designed, built and modified in the U.S. is a better deal from the consumer's standpoint than finding out that your retention gizmo on the safety of the daewoo won't work and replacement parts are simply not available.

you can get into an ar15 for 600 or so, and swap out barrels, get new furniture, triggers, lights, lasers, grips, almost too much stuff to mention, quite easily.

of course, get what you really want, but hang out with some guys shooting high-power matches with ar15s before you knock 'em. if the rifle is set up right, it's way trick.

cheers!

Dixie--I've had two mini-14s--a wood stock ranch rifle and a stainless folder. I now have a Bushmaster flattop 16' with a heavy barrel and match handguard and trigger, with the C-more holographic sight. There is no comparison--the AR is far more robust and reliable (also a lot heavier). The Galils I have seen are quite rough, comparable to some of the stamped receiver AKs from Eastern Europe, with awful triggers.

i also want to emphasize that reliability problems with the ar15 are history with good ammo. that particular rifle is the current issue with all the armed forces of the u.s. guys in basic are trained to get consistent torso shots out to 500-600 meters. bullets fragment on impact. even FMJ bullets. i have one and am thinking of getting another just for grins. i think they're by far the best for the money. you can get 3 or 4 rock river rifles for what 1 HK will cost you, and mods and repairs are going to be hard to come by on the german rifle. no gun is perfect out of the box. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

DixieFreedom,
I doubt you or anyone else will go this route but I had Carl at Accuracy Systems Inc. out of Aurora, Colorado build me a matte black,SUPER ACCURATE, mini - 14 that shoots .35 inch groups @100yds (all day long) using standard M-193 or SS-109 style .223 ammo. However, IT WAS NOT CHEAP (about $900.00 plus the price of the old Mini-14). You would probably cut your cost considerably by purchasing an action from him and getting it set up the way you want it.

My particular rifle sports a 20" .800 diameter Super Match barrel, button rifled,1 in 10 twist, a trigger job (~3.5 lbs), an action job (standard) w/ squared up bolt lugs,face, etc., and a Ram Line fixed folding stock to keep the weight down. Yeah, I know what y'all are think'n! A Ram Line stock?????? Right!!!!!! NO WAY!!!!!

But, guess what? Ol' Carl knows exactly how to make that baby like a glass bedded stock at the action and free float the barrel. Further, Carl tests each rifle, BEFORE he ships, to ensure that it meets or exceeds advertised specs on his website. He is a small operation but this man is a GIANT when it comes to this particular style rifle and if you follow his somewhat tedious barrel break-in instructions to the letter, YOU WON'T BE DISAPPOINTED.

In fact, the only faults that I have found with the rifle, is that it suffers from auto slam on the first shot (the first shot shoots 1 inch high & 1 inch to the right because it is not loaded by the force of the previous shot but rather by the force of the bolt going forward after being drawn back by hand) and that it should not be fired enough to really cook the barrel too much or it will lose its accuracy according to Carl. Once you learn to compensate for this, stacking them all in the same hole is a breeze.

Carl, also seemed to feel that with a rifle this accurate, one could afford to take his time and fire it at a much slower pace that didn't heat up the barrel a lot because it was so accurate. I must say after having this rifle for 2 years, that it is a go to gun for any long shot up to 375 yds that requires pinpoint accuracy, and the only reason I don't use it out further than that is that I have other rifles that are almost that accurate which put more steam on bigger bullets. Still, y'all can decide for yourselves what ya want ta do.

Flower Child

I must be one of the only Mini-14 fans on the internet. The Ruger Mini-14 is a good rifle for what it is intended for. It is a extremely reliable, lightweight, do all, hunting rifle.

It is not a target rifle as produced. It doesn't have a heavy barrel and or a match trigger.

I own a Colt HBAR and Like that style rifle very much. But when you compare short light AR's to Mini-14's the accuracy difference is just not there. The Mini-14 (or HBAR) does not compete with my Tikka Continental either, but it was never meant to.

My Mini-14 always hits what I am aiming at! I think people buy the little Ruger and expect to get an AR 15 for less than 1/2 of the price.

There is another .223 autoloader available. I think it's fairly new. It's made by Kel-Tec.

http://www.kel-tec.com/su-16_rifle.htm

Also - Mini-14 vs AR-15 - I vote AR, but if I wanted to own a Mini-14 again I would do something like Flower Child. He's got a good set up.

If you want more info on Mini-14s try www.perfectunion.com
If you want more info on AR-15s try www.ar15.com

Good luck with your selection.

Don't forget the Armalite AR-180. I have one of the original models with the folding stock, it's lightweight and it shoots 1.5 to 2 inch groups. No personal experience with the new model, but it has some nice features such as using regular AR-15 magazines, standard AR sights, and a reasonable price tag <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.--Joe

you're right 4x4, i am prejudiced against the mini 14, but pleae don't take it as any kind of a personal slam, as it's not meant to be. i had an old beretta 92 pistol which was super reliable, and i loved it. in conversations with pistol gurus, i got the feedback that in training, the jump-out boys always thought "beretta" meant "malfunction" in italian.

i have had a couple of mini 14s, and have never been able to get them to reliably hit a beer can at 50 yards. if you have one which can accomplish that, perhaps i just didn't break mine in well enough, or perhaps i had a freaky rifle, or was not using the correct ammo... who knows...

i didn't get an ar15 for the look, or for the "assault rifle" style, i got one because it's almost infinitely modify-able, from a relatively long-range hunter with a varmint upper, to a close in defense weapon. coyotes on my ranch simply *hate* my rock river 16". 100yd. groups are less than 1" consistently.

peace to all. know the earth.

Tommy, no I don't take it personally! I think its kinda fun. I just think the Mini-14 gets a bad rap.

I love my HBAR and my Tikka. They both will outshoot my Mini. But my Mini has claimed numerous coyotes, porcupines, skunks, antelope and gophers. It will hit a bowling pin at 100 yards, and that is all I need it to do.

I do have some experience with the lightweight AR's and I did not notice the accuracy I expect with my HBAR.

I just enjoy talking guns and hunting.

however, the kel-tec thing on the above link is kinda interesting. not sure i'd fork over 600 bucks for one, but i've heard through reliable sources their handguns are well engineered and inexpensive, though crude in appearance. it'd be interesting to get a post from someone who's shot one or owns one. you'd think with all these guys out there in cyber-land some one would have gotten one by now, unless they're brand spanking new. folding rifles have always interested me because of the concealability and the ease of transport.

My mini-14s were both "minute of tennis ball" with good ammo, and the folder was a great truck gun besides being very cool looking. Accurate enough for predators to maybe 200 yards, but clearly not prarie dog rifles. I find the AR easier to shoot, and considerably more accurate, and much more substantial (for lack of a better word). Of course, it should be for twice the price tag of the mini-14.

I have had 2 different mini 14" and you guys are getting a lot better goups than I ever did. I think on a good day mine would do good to keep them all in a small paper plate at 100 yards. Nothing real inpressive, sold both of them and have NO desire to buy another.

I have had 2 ar's and both were/are great really good shoters. My first was a standard Colt h-bar 20" preban sold it when Klintons pan went into effect in 94. It was to long for what I wanted anyway. Just recently I picked up a Bushmaster M4gery A4 and just think it's the cats meow. One word of advice DO NOT get the mini-Y comp It SUCKS. Every time you pop off a shot the muzzle blast smacks you in the face pretty bad. That problem is going to fixed soon by sending to Kurts Kuston Firearms for his Fake Flash hider install.

Just take it to the range and let your die hard "bolt gun" friends give it a drive and they will be smiling from ear to ear and asking "how much do one of those things cost anyway?" after chewing a 1" hole in the target at 50 yards with 30rounds(added for Abolt172) and the next thing you know you will be looking at progressive press and bullets by the thousand. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

To describe my M4, it would be called "just some serious fun"

One of the reasons I haven't been posting much is I am loading ammo for it buy the hundreds, not to mention being banned by Websence at work <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Darkside

When Herr Clinton's ban expires later this year, we can put real flash hiders and collapsible stocks on these "post-ban" Bushmasters. Yahoo!

hey all! just got back from the range yesterday <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

made lotsa ragged holes in empty beer cans at 100 yds. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

mr. ar15 works like a friggin' champ. man, i love that rifle. if i had it to do over again, i'd get one without any flash hider, even the fake one. that gizmo makes it way, way loud. not that muffs don't take care of it, but it's really painful in the field where you're not wearin' muffs. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

at any rate, went to range w/buddy rick who is sighting in his Oly 20" fluted and free floated unit. neat. he's gonna like that a lot once we get it all dialled in. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

i just wanted to post again and RE-EMPHASIZE the neato-factor of the ar family of popguns. look at it this way. if you get one and end up *not* liking it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> you can always get your money back, or about 95% of it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

if you're plinking, shooting a flash hider is useless, IMHO. if you're in battle or sniping, it's probably pretty necessary, but i like to think no other country in their right mind would end up invading us, especially through texas. they'd have a lot better luck coming in off the west coast where gun laws are super-strict.

at any rate, get what you want or you won't be happy. if which 5.56 autoloader to purchase is the question, rock river arms is the answer in my book. orfully good gun for the $. i used to think OLYs were crap until buddy rick bought one. freakin' tack driver at 75 yds. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I have a Ruger GB Mini-14, 182 Series, which I bought about 18 years ago. Off the bench, it will shoot 1" groups with Win. factory 55 gr. PSP, and about 1 1/2" with both Win. FMJ and PMC FMJ.

Makes a real nice little package in the truck, or just totin' around in the mountains for general whatever.It works just fine for me, and my wife really likes it, too.

L.W.