Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Tubular magazine accidental discharge

I have read and heard for years that only blunt nose bullets can be used in tubular magazines (94 Win etc.) because of the chance of denting the primers and causing discharge. Has anyone ever heard of this ever happening, either with spire points or not. It seems to me that it takes a hell of a hard snap to fire a primer, and a lead tipped bullet of any point form would be hard pressed to do it under normal recoil. I am aware of the Hornady soft tips, and am not referring to them.

I've not experienced one, but a tube loaded with four or five 45-70 cartridges each packing a 400+ grain slug could put a lot of pressure on the primer closest to the muzzle in the magazine.

Some where recently I read of a magazine discharge, but there was insufficent pressure developed to damage the rifle. Once the bullet separated from the cartridge, there was enough volume available to prevent an explosion, Sorry, but I can not remember the source.

I think there is also a difference between straight-wall cases and bottle-necks. A tube full of .30-30 rounds likely has the rounds lying with noses canted down, with the tips contacting the round in front of it below the primer.

Scott

This thread will give you a few references to start off with.

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=33393&highlight=magazine+tube+detonations

I have a 94 Win. 30-30 (1948) that I bought from my father in law years ago, and have never shot. He said he shot it about 10 times, and I believe it. I am not a big 94 fan, but have always toyed with the idea of loading some 130 sp or hp bullets and putting four in the magazine and one in the chamber, or even three in the magazine and have some fun with it. I don't think there would be enough recoil to cause any problems. Have any of you guys done this?

Somebody did an article once exploring this. If I recall correctly (not a sure assumption) he was unable to get any softpoint bullet to set off a tube full of 30-30 rounds. He speculated that there wasn't enough recoil, that the bullet tips did not contact the next primer in the center, and/or that the tips were not hard enough to do the job.

He was finally able to get a discharge using FMJ bullets, but only one other round went off, and that one merely fizzled as soon as the bullet popped out (as described above). A mess, but the tube did not burst.

The theory of en entire magazine of ammo going massively KA-blooie may make a striking mental picture, but it may also be a purely imaginary one.

The other side of the coin is that I don't think you'd gain all that much by loading pointy bullets. With the 30-30, I think you'd run out of energy and velocity before you made much difference id drop.

luke,

A while back Brian Pearce did an article (Handloader or Rifle, don't remember) based on your topic, sort of. He fired regular 30-30 FN ammo and pointed modern slugs fired at 30-30 speeds. He wasn't checking tube magazine safety, rather what was the trajectory/accuracy improvement. What he found was that the pointed bullet did shoot a bit flatter, but the accuracy was not nearly as good as the traditional 30-30 stuff. So looking at his 200 yard targets it was sort of hard to tell the difference.

I find the same deal with a Remington model 14 30 Rem, which has a spiral tube magazine designed to hold the point of the cartridge away from the primer of the next. It also shoots a lot better with fn/rn bullets. But it has a slower twist than a 30-30.

Just play it safe an get some factory stuff or load some Speer 110 plinkers. Why risk a good, sentimental rifle for a little plinking?

I agree with the above.

Note that the new Hornady LeverRevolution Rounds get most of their trajectory advantage through an extremely "slick" (aerodynamically) bullet.

160 grain Evolution - SD .240, BC .330
150 grain RN Interlock - SD .226, BC .186
170 grain FP Interlock - SD .256, BC .189

A full length barrel (24") and some juiced up powders (160 grain bullet at 2400 fps) help. But Hornady itself (IIRC) has stated that the bullet makes A LOT of difference.

BMT

William iorg; I did have that 2002 Gun Digest and just reread the article. I knew I had seen that somewhere, but like a lot of other stuff, I could not remember where. Thanks for the info.
Thanks to rest for your advise.

I did in fact misrememberize (!) a few things. The author of the 2002 Gun Digest article mentioned FMJ bullets, but did not test them. He was only able to get a round to go off in a magazine by hitting one with a "firing pin" in a test rig. And only that one round would ignite; there was never a "chain fire" of all the rounds in the magazine. The single fired case would split, and that was the end of the action. No burst magazine tube and very little burned powder.

Like that author, I will not recommend that people ignore the conventional wisdom against loading pointy bullets in a tubular magazine. But I think I can agree with him that damage to the gun is extremely unlikely, even if you do.

(I also re-discovered a very "Special" article on page 18 of that edition, LOL!)

I'm glad someone posted about this quandary. I have wanted to run 200gr Sierra RN bullets out of my Winchester �94 Big Bore in 356 Win., but I keep reading that the RN bullets can set off other rounds in the tubular magazine. Only FN bullets are recommended. Well, I�m sitting here looking at the 200gr RN bullets along with a box of 250gr Speer Hot-Cor FN bullets. For the life of me, there does not appear to be any difference in the actual surface of the bullet's noses/tips! The Sierra bullet�s nose/tip is equally as flat as the Speer FN bullet! I was going to just load one in the chamber and one in the magazine with the RN bullets, but I might just load-up a whole magazine having inspected both bullets. I�ll have my wife post for me if I blow my face off!

OCC, to settle your mind, just try what that author did: Prime a case and lock it in a vise. Set your RN bullet squarely on the primer and rap the bullet with a hammer. I bet you a doughnut nothing happens. Do hold the bullet with a pair of pliers - in case you miss with the hammer.

Many years ago, I think in was in the 60s, I remember reading about a M71 Winchester exploding. IIRC, in was in a Guns and Ammo magazine, and again, IIRC, the shooter was either crippled in the hand that was holding the forearm, or killed.

The caliber was a wildcat, something based on the .348 Win., but I don't remember which cartridge. I think they made this line of cartridges in .45 and other calibers.

I don't remember if pointed bullets were being used or not. The recoil of a .450 Alaskan, as I think these were known as, could have caused a cartridge to fire. IIRC, all the cartridges in the magazine fired. It might have started with just one, but beinging confined the way they were, the other bullets could have hit the other primers, something like a chain reaction.

This was a long time ago, and I just barely remember reading about it, and I think it happened in Alaska.

All I ever remember being loaded in 30-30 was round nose bullets. Never heard the term flat nose til I started handloading. I think there are a lot more things to worry about with rifles and shooting than tubular magazine incidental bullet discharge.

For those who have magazine collections or access to back issues. There was a very good article in Rifle #228 Nov. 2006 on this very subject. Some of Rocky's comments are in this article so it has probably been published before. I found it interesting as the author went to some trouble to try and blow something up.

The standard factory load for a 35Rem. is a 200gr. round nose. I've been shooting them out of my Marlin 336 for about 30 years. Never even considered it a problem. I tried a few 150gr. SP but would only load one in the chamber and a follow up shot in the tube. If you can't get them with two shots you sure the hell don't need six more.

Pretty much the same with the 307Win. The factory load is a 180gr SP that looks exactly the same as the 180gr Power Point. The nose of the bullet has its total profile directly on the primer when you line them up. I have also thought of shooting pointed bullets in my 30-30, but for the most part, they may be too hard for 30-30 velocities. In one of J OC's books, he said that he thought the 30-30 was very effective on deer in that the bullets and the rifle velocity were well balanced for expansion and penetration. He noticed a difference in killing effectiveness when Remington came out with the core-lokt and felt the earlier bullets were more effective. I have not tried the new "pointed" 30-30 bullet, but that is a 160gr bullet with a new design, and I would imagine the engineers would have taken the velocity into consideration in respect to expansion and terminal performance. Jus a few of my thoughts on the matter..

Good article in Rifle #228, Nov-Dec 2006. Bullets, Primers and Tubular Safety by RW Ballou.

+1

I would believe it would have been a lot more of a hazard when the magazine was filled with cartridges loaded with black powder. Which was the situation when lever actions ruled the roost. Then you could have had explosions, and a high probability of a chain reaction, which will not happen with smokeless powder unconfined.

Yet, I will never use pointed bullets in a tubular mag, but the roundnose bullets rest on the primer too.