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#6273692 - 03/10/12 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: Abner]
raybass Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 2984
Loc: Montgomery, Tx
For the fellas that may be interested there is a Kodiak SXS 45/70 at Gun Emporium in Conroe TX for a little over $3200. Its sweet looking! grin
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#6420114 - 04/18/12 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: raybass]
CarlOtt Offline
New Member

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1
I have had my Baikal MP221 45/70 on order for three weeks now. I hope to have it in my hands in about 12 days. Waiting for the banks to clear "their" money orders between themselves. USPS money orders only for future purchases. It is hard to wait.

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#6424920 - 04/20/12 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: tbear]
Swampman700 Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 11/14/08
Posts: 11207
Originally Posted By: tbear
While they work I would certainly consider them crude. One of my friends was invited to the birthday party hosted by Mr. Kalashnikov who developed the AK47. They hunted his estate for Red Deer with these double rifles. He was able to purchase a couple & sold me one. While I killed a couple of boar with mine the stock is a 2X4, action is stiff & crude, accuracy is poor, difficult to scope, & the regulation system is rube goldberg. Other than these deficiencies its a great rifle.


Sounds like the one in our local shop.
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1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing 1983-1985 1993-1994

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#6588014 - 06/12/12 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: Swampman700]
GutterSlut Offline
New Member

Registered: 09/07/10
Posts: 5
Loc: Gist, Texas
I ordered a MP221 SXS 45-70 last Thursday and picked it up at my FFL a few minutes ago. $750 out the door.

I was pleasantly surprised at the overall appearance, fit and finish. The stock fits me perfectly in every aspect rendering a solid cheek weld when the sights are properly aligned. It has a 14 1/4" length of pull. It has a pretty stiff ventilated recoil pad on it. I forsee a Limbsaver pad on the horizon.

Metal to metal fit is as tight as an out of the box Citori. Very nice and uniform crowns on both muzzles. Mirror bright bore. The matte blue job is as good as you will find on any mass produced Rem, Ruger or Winchester. The action is VERY tight as many have noted and needs some serious breaking in. To me that is far better than a rattle trap. The sights are nice! I'm a big fan of the square notch and round post anyway... The front post bead looks identical to and will probably interchage with an AK.

On the down side, the triggers really suck. They break at about 8-9 pounds. But I'm spoiled to a Ray Perry 3.5 pound trigger job. Looks like it will take a trip to Ray so he can waive his $50 magic wand over it.

The furniture is very plain, but well shaped with what appears to be an oil finish. Wood fits the metal tight everywhere it should. Wood to metal fit is comparable to my Ruger #1.

I still need to shoot it, but at this point I have NO complaints whatsoever. It will undoubtably replace my beloved model 94 as my go-to walkabout rifle.

A new set of dies, 100 Barnes 350gr TSX's and 100 new Rem nickel cases should be waiting on my door steps when I get home. According to the book 60 grains of Varget should yield app. 28,000 psi and 1900fps.

Mick
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#6588350 - 06/12/12 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: GutterSlut]
Ready Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 12/21/08
Posts: 5036
Originally Posted By: ClarkKent
I ordered a MP221 SXS 45-70 last Thursday and picked it up at my FFL a few minutes ago. $750 out the door.

I was pleasantly surprised at the overall appearance, fit and finish. The stock fits me perfectly in every aspect rendering a solid cheek weld when the sights are properly aligned. It has a 14 1/4" length of pull. It has a pretty stiff ventilated recoil pad on it. I forsee a Limbsaver pad on the horizon.

Metal to metal fit is as tight as an out of the box Citori. Very nice and uniform crowns on both muzzles. Mirror bright bore. The matte blue job is as good as you will find on any mass produced Rem, Ruger or Winchester. The action is VERY tight as many have noted and needs some serious breaking in. To me that is far better than a rattle trap. The sights are nice! I'm a big fan of the square notch and round post anyway... The front post bead looks identical to and will probably interchage with an AK.

On the down side, the triggers really suck. They break at about 8-9 pounds. But I'm spoiled to a Ray Perry 3.5 pound trigger job. Looks like it will take a trip to Ray so he can waive his $50 magic wand over it.

The furniture is very plain, but well shaped with what appears to be an oil finish. Wood fits the metal tight everywhere it should. Wood to metal fit is comparable to my Ruger #1.

I still need to shoot it, but at this point I have NO complaints whatsoever. It will undoubtably replace my beloved model 94 as my go-to walkabout rifle.

A new set of dies, 100 Barnes 350gr TSX's and 100 new Rem nickel cases should be waiting on my door steps when I get home. According to the book 60 grains of Varget should yield app. 28,000 psi and 1900fps.

Mick


Welcome to the fire.

I see you have lurked awhile. Some picture of your new gun?

Before fireing the load with 60 grs. of Varget?

I do not know what book that load is from but

THAT IS NOT A SAFE LOAD.

Way over 28000 / 1900 fps.

QL estimated 94000 psi, which will blow up your gun.
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#6588624 - 06/12/12 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: Ready]
jimone Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/05/10
Posts: 637
Loc: Maine USA
I get 2000fps with 60 gr Varget and 350 Hdy RN with CCI200 in RP cases in my NEF Handi-Rile. I would back off to 50 gr to start with with TSX's and keep them to 1800 fps in the double. Lead gas checked would be a better choice at these velocities IMHO.

Play safe.


Edited by jimone (06/12/12)
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#6588998 - 06/13/12 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: jimone]
GutterSlut Offline
New Member

Registered: 09/07/10
Posts: 5
Loc: Gist, Texas
Yeah I've been hanging around a while. I rarely have time to be active on forums, but they contain a wealth of information and differing points of view.

I was at work when I made the first post and was depending on memory, of which I have none...

Hmmmmm... Well Hogdon has this on their
website for the Marlin lever action 47/70 rifles -

350 GR. HDY JRN Hodgdon Varget .458" 2.540"
54.0 grains 1786 fps 21,800 CUP
60.0C grains 2013 fps 29,500 CUP

This is from a conversion website -
2,200BAR = 31,908.3023006PSI (14.50375 PSI = 1 BAR).

Does CUP=PSI or close???

Rocket science isn't my bag but, I think the action should be as strong as a Marlin Lever action or stronger.

I plan to start at 50gr and work up. Recoil may determine the max load. I have a .458 mag and some other meat grinders and I don't enjoy shooting them either.

Let me see if I can get some pics up.

Mick
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#6590853 - 06/13/12 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: GutterSlut]
jimone Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/05/10
Posts: 637
Loc: Maine USA
Start low and work up, as is sensible practice. Case capacity varies with brand a lot with the 45-70, a safe load with Winchester cases may be an overload with Remington or Starline.
I would not shoot my Handi-Rifle loads in my Marlin guide gun. Varget is a good choice, as is IMR 4208XBR and H 322.
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#6590961 - 06/13/12 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: GutterSlut]
writing_frog Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 1407
Loc: France

PSI and CUP are not the same units at all, but 28000cup in the 45-70 seems to be close to 28000 psi. Not the same with other ammo.
You can find helpful datas on the 45-70 in the special issue of Rifle magazine call Legacy of the Lever Gun. Go to Rifle web site, may be they have some left to sell. Interesting reading.

The russian action is strong, used for ammo which are close to 58000psi and more without problem.

Marlin is given to 42000psi, 1886 with nickel steel barrel or reproduction can go to the same, even a bit more but as the saying goes: "better safe than sorry". No need to try to transform a 45-70 in 458WinMag.

I load for my Winchesters and Browning 86 with VN133 powders and bullets from 300 to 405grs.

57,8grs of VN133 and Hornady 350RN bullet give me 620m/s a bit more than 2030fps, barrel is 22inches. Pressure is around 30000psi may be 31000. Cases are Remington, primers CCI.
Be careful not to mix cases, Remington and Winchester are close but the Federal are very heavy and capacity way smaller so same loads give over pressure.

With same powder and 405grs bullet i use 53grs for 580m/s. Pressure are close to the former above. Think you can use them without fear in your double.

Lead bullets are a must in this caliber even with smokeless powders, if you push them a bit use gas checked one and lubricate with Alox or another high quality grease or lubricant. I get very few leading doing that.

I even used 540grs GC lead bullets in my lever action. Could be interesting to test in your double. Maybe you can load it longer than in a lever for more powder capacity. Good for close range hunting on big boars if you can get them to shoot.

Have good time loading and shooting, take care!

Dom
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Experience is a lantern, carried in our back, only lightening already walked path. (Confucius)

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#6597669 - 06/16/12 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: writing_frog]
Buckheart Offline
New Member

Registered: 10/15/10
Posts: 8
I bought one of these new in 30-06 in 2008. Had major trigger problems and after firing the shell would get stuck in one of the barrels. Had to be pried out with a screw driver. I sent it back to EAA down in Florida. they sent me a new gun. after about 20 rounds through the new one a piece fell out from the underneath of the rib in front. Trigger was still sticky too but I could have lived with that. At this point I talked to their gunsmith on the phone and politely expressed my displeasure. I sent the second one back. When I got it back there was a work order with it that said the gun had been disassembled by some one other than them(meaning me),screws had been buggered up, and that it had been over greased. I am not a gun smith and I certainly would never take a gun apart that is supposed to be under warranty. Well, the third "repair" resulted in a gun that is so hard to break open after shooting 2 barrels that it is unusable. At that point I kind of just gave up and it has been sitting on the shelf since then. I didn't expect a custom double for what it cost me but it isn't too much to ask a that it just shoots and is operable. All in all very poor quality even for the low price and the service from the company was even worse.

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#6630827 - 06/27/12 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: Buckheart]
GutterSlut Offline
New Member

Registered: 09/07/10
Posts: 5
Loc: Gist, Texas
Moderately buffed the furniture with the abrasive side of a dishwashing sponge that was under the sink... One coat of oil base dark walnut stain and wiped dry after 30 minutes. Next day three wet coats of raw Linseed oil rubbed in by hand. Next day one wet coat of drying linseed oil rubbed in by hand. It ain't presentation grade turkish walnut, but it ain't bad and the critters won't care...

The gun was bone dry of lubricant as it came out of the box. After a LIBERAL application of Break free and grease on the hing friction points the action will fall open, but no "looseness" exists. I think the hammer springs came off of the front end of a volkswagon or a 20mm anti aircraft gun. Cocking them requires some downward pressure for the last few gegrees of opening the action. The downward pressure required to open the action all the way is nothing new for an old double barrel SXS shotgun operator. I have a savage .410 SXS and used to have a 12 gauge SXS, they are the same way. You HAVE to cock the hammer springs somehow...

Function is flawless. After liberal and dripping lube job to the fire control group, the triggers are MUCH better. Still creepy but plenty manageable for what it is intended for. With the 350 Barnes TSX's at 1800fps it kicks about like a 20 gauge 870 with 2 3/4 slugs.

I found a hidden document on USSG's website through a Goggle search and it explains regulating these rifles. The first page of the PDF document is apparentyl written by some expert from the U.S. It explains the commonnly heard theory/method where one sights in the left barrel and then regulates the right barrel to the point of impact of the left barrel. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT!

I completely stripped it except for the fire control group and it became immediately obvious to me that the commonly advertised barrel regulation procedure was incorrect. The barrel regulation screw resides on the centerline between both barrels at a totally unsupported point. The screw pushes laterally and equally opposite on both barrels at the same time. The screw does nothing more than regulate both barrels laterally and equally at the same time. Simply put, when you move one barrel laterally, "in or out", the other barrel moves in or out as well. At least in theory and by design. The barrel screw ONLY determines the width of the spread of point of impact at a given distance on these rifles. Nothing more or nothing less. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction...

Haven't had a chance to do much shooting with it yet. Waiting for a weekend when I have plenty of time. I'm attaching cell phone pics of the gun in final form. I'm also attaching a link to the USSG/Russian document. Page one of the document is someones rendition/translation of how to regulate. Page two is a mechanical blueprint of the rifle and apparently a direct translation of the Russin instructions for regulating the barrels. The instructions from one page to another are vastly different. It's no wonder everyone has been having hell tryin to regulate the barrels as page one describes.

See pics at below link.

http://s53.photobucket.com/albums/g57/hound329/2012%20Baikal%20SXS%2045-70/

See USSG original document at below link.

http://www.eaacorp.com/Manuals/MP221_Barrel_Regulation.pdf

Mick
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#6631286 - 06/27/12 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: GutterSlut]
ab_bentley Online   mad
Campfire Regular

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 843
Loc: 43821












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#6632602 - 06/28/12 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: ab_bentley]
Abner Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 110
After three years, it's good to see this thread still going. I'm still having fun with mine and plan on using it yet again this year in the field. Are they getting easier to get now or, was the wait a long one, as is was with mine. I waited about three years after I first saw then advertised to get mine.

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#6633571 - 06/28/12 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: Abner]
GutterSlut Offline
New Member

Registered: 09/07/10
Posts: 5
Loc: Gist, Texas
Ab, I picked up the phone, called my pawn shop buddy/ffl and told him to order it. I think it was four days later he called back and it was in his hands. I loaded up 10 rounds last night to 60 grains of Varget (Hogdon book load). Gonna see how they shoot today if the heat doesn't change my mind. Might even set up the Chrony to check fps.

After looking at pics of the earlier guns it is obvious that the Russians have vastly improved on QA/QC with these little rifles. Mine is really nice for the price ($750 out the door). I am amamazed at how light, handy and quick pointing it is. Money well spent if you have this particular itch and don't want to take out a second morgage on the house to scratch it.
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#6639296 - 06/29/12 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: GutterSlut]
jimone Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/05/10
Posts: 637
Loc: Maine USA
Now that the Remington/Cerebus criminals are out of it the quality should be much better, I am starting to want one again.
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#6750191 - 08/06/12 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: Abner]
pricedo Offline
Member

Registered: 05/24/09
Posts: 82
Originally Posted By: Abner
After three years, it's good to see this thread still going. I'm still having fun with mine and plan on using it yet again this year in the field. Are they getting easier to get now or, was the wait a long one, as is was with mine. I waited about three years after I first saw then advertised to get mine.


A lot of good reports about the gun. I have a Baikal IZH-94 O/U 12 gauge/.308 Win and it's a good gun and the rifle barrel is very accurate.
I have 2 Guide Guns, a Pedersoli 86/71 and a NEF single shot in .45-70 GVT so unless the Baikal S/S I see is pretty cheap I think I'll pass.
Like I said before - too heavy. I do a lot of walking where I hunt & I can't see myself lugging that big hunk of iron 10 miles over my shoulder.
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#6751345 - 08/07/12 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: Abner]
THEBBC Offline
Member

Registered: 02/20/12
Posts: 59
Loc: Ft Worth TX
Dream gun is a double rifle

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#6751954 - 08/07/12 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: THEBBC]
600Nitro Offline
New Member

Registered: 08/03/12
Posts: 3
Hello,
I am new to this forum, and just thought I would offer some of my views on this double rifle.
While not being hand crafted creation I believe it holds true to the original concept of the double rifle. It's tough, light enough to be carried all-day, quick to align on target, and has a clean form, meaning that it does not snag up as much as some guns do, when being dragged through dense undergrowth etc. Given the ranges that double rifles are meant to be used at, it's accurate to. It has two triggers, so delivers a fast" double tap" if needed, and if the first barrel rewards you with that ominous "click ! ", the second is instantly ready to use, barring a serious malfunction in the lock mechanism. So in its heart, it's a true double rifle. I own two of these, both in 45-70 and I have had them now for a couple of years .I have taken numerous wild boar in both France and Germany with them, and the 45-70 round, if placed correctly, can be described as having" authority" at the receiving end. Yes, there are niggling little things, the trigger pull is notoriously bad, the actions can be tight, but you will be amazed how a good dunking in a super penetrating oil can improve things. I find the plastic centre rib annoying, but only because it's plastic. The "aiming arrangements" are not to my taste, so I just filed mine to a V cut so mimicking the express sights I am more used to. I will eventually get around to replacing the "AK" front sight, but it works, it just seems to catch horribly in most guns slips. But for the price and a little bit of work,, a wonderful price for a double rifle. I am not particularly recoil sensitive, but a piece of advice I picked up for those that are, apparently drilling through the holes in the side of the recoil pad, gives you something that mimics the Limb Saver pad.
I believe the regulating screw between the barrels to be a wonderful and an innovative idea. This frees a double rifle user to a wider range of bullet weight/velocity types, more than the conventional regulated double, with a little bit of work on the range, but that's not a bad thing.
With the loads I use, both of these rifles deliver 1.5/ 2 inch groups at 50 yards from both barrels (one grouping) free standing, if I, with my years and eyesight do my bit, and still passingly accurate at 75 yards for game shooting That's good enough for me .I only use these guns for European hunting, and most of it is in thick scrub or woodland where even 50 yards can be a long shot.
A lot of Internet chatter covers how they don’t quite match individuals taste and requirements. To be quite honest, most of us find, that an out-of-the-box anything, has annoying little problems that do not suit our own personal tastes, that's because they're made for many people with different tastes and manufactured for a set price. These rifles for me have performed well in the conditions I ask them to working in
I have owned and used many English double rifles, and hunted with them in the countries they were designed for. I have also helped friends and hunters find loads to match the regulating of their rifle.so I am not new to the double rifle game. And I will agree that this rifle does not stack up in workmanship or quality against a vastly more expensive custom-made double. But as I said earlier, I believe it holds true to the “spirit” of the double rifle. It is a tough, small, no-nonsense, hard-hitting, game taker.
If you have to be a double rifle snob, let's be honest then, it has to be English, and it has to have side locks and double triggers, anything else is a poor imitation. Let's not go down that route please.
I have found these rifles to be fun, accurate enough for the job they were intended for, easy to carry and maintain. They also have a pleasing look, which in the field does not cause some of the concern to the general public that some shapes of rifle do. I have to say that some people have been quite impressed with the way my "little. 410 shot gun" speaks!
My apologies for such a long winded first post.

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#6761630 - 08/10/12 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: THEBBC]
pricedo Offline
Member

Registered: 05/24/09
Posts: 82
Originally Posted By: THEBBC
Dream gun is a double rifle


Same here....but the Old Ball & Chain is pretty handy with a rolling pin so most of the dream guns will stay dreams. cry
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#6770349 - 08/13/12 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: pricedo]
Abner Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 110
Bravo 600Nitro - That is the same thing I have been saying since I started this post years ago. I still have a wonderful time with mine and it shoots as well as I need it to for the type of hunting I use it for. I fully expect to look down its barrels at yet another black bear this year and my guess is that it will do just fine.

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#6788268 - 08/19/12 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: Abner]
M3taco Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 411
Abner:

I posted my experience with mine earlier when this posting stated and just wanted to pass along an update.

Had the triggers and cocking mechanism worked on by a gunsmith. He was able to get the trigger pulls very smooth and about 3.5 lbs. He couldn't do much about the take-up or over travel because he said there was no normal adjustments to them. He modified the cocking so that once you open the action it will actually stay fully open and not have to be held open. Once you drop the cartridges in and give a little "lift" to the barrels it will close to the "half closed" position. Why does it have this "half closed" position? So, you can carry it "open" and the cartridges won't fall out - just add an extra level of "safety" on top of the tang safety.

After lots of trial and tribulation, I finally settled on just Rem 405's at 1600fps and regulated it for that load. Out of the box, at 50yds, it shot two groups 6" apart and right barrel 6" higher than the left. Via a combination of a bench vice, a large wrench, some shims made out of a feeler gauge and the jack-screw between the barrel I was finally able to get it to shoot both barrels into a 2" circle at 100 yds. with a old Weaver k2.5 scope.

Took it to Namibia a couple of months ago for plains game. I was the back-up shooter and my wife was the primary. Ended up using the little double to take a number of head of cull Gemsbok out to 125yds. All one shot each.

I have to say that I am still grinning about hunting with a "double rifle" in Africa. I will be taking it with me again next year.

Would I use it on DG? Leopard, yes, but anything else, if I had a choice..no. But then I wouldn't use a 458 WM with 405gr softs at 1600 fps or a 577NE with 500gr softs at 1600fps either. But I will and have used my custom bolt actions in 45-70 and 450M with hand-loads of 350gr TSX's and 330gr Barnes Banded Solids at 2400 fps and next year I will be using my Win 70 in 450M with 325gr CEB#13 solids at 2400fps on PAC ele.

The little Rem/Bikal double is what it is. Don't buy it thinking you'll re-chamber it to something bigger - the chambers are too thin and too short. It is more than adequate for what it is intended for and at that price point it is a huge bargain. The money you save on it over the high-end doubles will pay for an African PG trip or two.

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If guns kill, then pencils cause spelling mistakes, cars cause people to drive drunk, cameras make child porn and spoons made Michael Moore fat. Human behavior is NOT caused by inanimate objects.

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#6817292 - 08/28/12 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: M3taco]
pricedo Offline
Member

Registered: 05/24/09
Posts: 82
I finally bought one of the Baikal SxS double rifles in 45-70.
The wood and varnish, the w/m fit, the checkering and bluing were far superior to those of the Remington made Marlin 1895 rifles being currently sold.
If the normal Baikal MP-221 is as stiff as mine NIB I suggest taking all the pictures down off your walls before trying to assemble or disassemble the rifle.
I struggled for 10 minutes to get the for-end off and the barrel locking mechanism is so stiff I have to brace the barrel on the ground and reef for all I'm worth on the tang toggle latch to open the action.
I can't see cleaning & lubrication making this gun anywhere near as smooth as it needs to be to be usable in the field and I'm going to get my gunsmith to work the gun over and do a trigger job at the same time.


Edited by pricedo (08/28/12)
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#6823014 - 08/30/12 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: raybass]
pricedo Offline
Member

Registered: 05/24/09
Posts: 82
Originally Posted By: raybass
For the fellas that may be interested there is a Kodiak SXS 45/70 at Gun Emporium in Conroe TX for a little over $3200. Its sweet looking! grin


At $5000 & almost 9 pounds you can keep it.
My Baikal weighs about 7 pounds and cost $850.
The wood on mine is dark walnut & the steel bluing is rich & lustrous.
If the Pedersoli is prettier it's not by much......certainly not $4150 worth.
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#6824019 - 08/30/12 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: pricedo]
600Nitro Offline
New Member

Registered: 08/03/12
Posts: 3
Sorry to hear yours is one of the troublesome ones, they do seem to vary in quality control. One of mine I had to strip down the action, boil in water, and give a good soaking in super penetrating oil while hot, that seemed clear most of the problems. It must be remembered it's easier to loosen gun up, then tighten it with a box lock action. I to am loading 405 grain bullets, to what my loading manual tells me will achieve 1600 fps. Still very happy with my 2,and I was interested to read the African experience.
I travel back once a year, and may take mine along this time to see what can be achieved, There will be no dangerous game on the list, "horses for courses" is my experience here.
They are a double rifle, and if people remember what they are, and their limitations (all firearms, in all calibres, have their limitations) they are a a vehicle of tremendous fun and experimentation in loads and regulation.
My problem now is that they are leading me down a very dark path away from the traditional doubles, I am considering building a double rifle on a shot gun action now, I have just ordered a "HOW TOO" book on their construction, and purchased a old TOZ 63, shot gun as the unwilling donor for the action. Nice lock-up, including a Greener cross bolt system, and hammers- a dark path indeed!
Anyway back to this little 45-70, even if a little paid gunsmithing work is needed, they are still a hell of a lot cheaper than their closest rival, and quite natty little game takers, and when I say little I'm referring to the rifle not the size of the game it can take.
Pricedo, I hope the problems with yours are short lived and easily fixed, there will be a little experimentation in loading and regulating, I should say that can be fun, sometimes it can be frustrating! But once everything is tuned in, a great package, and capable of being a serious hunting rifle.
All the best,
600Nitro

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