Home Forums Lever Action Central Marlin 336 Lever Actions Question for you .35 Rem handloaders.

While the factory fodder seems a little anemic, i was wondering what kind of velocities you .35 rem handloader folks were getting safely with a 200 grain bullet. I am picking up a .35 Remington this week and i will be handloading it. Probably start with H322 as my powder of choice and go from there.
Is 2200 fps safely doable in the .336 20" barrel?? I am not looking for higher velocites to extend my range, but i am looking for bigger power from 100 to 150 yards as i hunt in the Alberta Rockies where both Grizzlies and black bear pose a threat especially once your game is on the ground. If 2200 fps is a pipe dream maybe i should step up to a .356 Win, 358 win .35 whelan or even a .45-70 or .444 Marlin for that matter.

As for the .45-70, i have never liked the thick forearm and bulky feel of the Guidegun having owned three in years past. I keep buying em and keep getting rid of em. I have now decided the Guidegun isn't for me.

I save the hot-rodding for cars. If I need a bullet to go faster I'll get a different cartridge.

So you consider an extra 200fps hotrodding??? If the 336 action is not up to this i will look buy a .444 Marlin. Never should have sold my Triple 4 to begin with me thinks.

Thank you for the reply. While it being a snide remark, thanks anyway.

A hand plane and / or a belt sander can make that fore end whatever shape that fits you best.
Guess a BFR could also be an option though ?

I guess, if i was to go back to the .45-70 i would buy the .22 inch barreled one. I find the muzzle flip annoying on the Guidegun. Well we will see. The ideal lever for me as i love the 336 would be a 336 in .356 win or 358 win.

I absolutley love the little 336's but they just don't come in a caliber with enough oomph. If i could get a .35 rem 200 grainer humming along at 2100fps safely thats what i would go for.

Here is what I did with my 45-70 GG. I didn't like the feel of the stock so I sent it to Marlin and they put the curved lever and pistol grip stock on it..Now it feels and handles like a 336.

While your pistol gripped Guidegun is absolutley awesome, i wouldn't dare send a rifle in the mail to the states hoping it doesn't get lost. I could buy the parts myself and do it here at home but i shudder to think what the parts would run me when a friggen little firing pin for a 336 goes for 50 bones up here.
The conversion you jsut had Marlin do while very nice, would probably run about 500.00 all said and done.

It would be more feasable to buy a Marlin 1895 22" which is already a pistol grip rifle and just lob of 4" of barrel and cut in a 3/8 doevatail for the sights.

You went about it the opposite way i would have.

That's what I wanted to do was order the parts from Marlin and do it myself but they won't sell you the bottom part of the receiver,some legal thing.... it cost me 220.00 to have them do it all and had it back in two weeks...also my GG is the older ported one, that really helps with the "muzzle flip" you spoke about,but it is LOUD!

But you right if things cost that much up there just buy one and have it cut..

Mossy, all said and done 220.00 bones isn't all that bad!!!
Anyway you you slice it, that is one awesome looking rig you ended up with for sure!!!!

Lever,
How much does a 336 in 35 Rem.cost you up there?

With tax a new 336 in 35 Rem is 666 bones. A used one when found is around 400-450.

2100 FPS? That's easy if you handload your own. I have been running mine between 2100 and 2200 FPS for years. That's only about 35,000 CUP well under the design limits of the 336.

.

I do handload. Thats why i started this thread. Mr. Youper replied that this would be hotrodding. What i was looking for was folks that have been there and done that or tried instead of snide remarks like Mr. Youper's. J, if you have been sending 200 grainers down range at 2100-2200fps within 35000 CUP, this is exactly the info i am looking for.

I don't see that anything that Youper said could be considered snide. I think that he was stating the obvious.

That said, anyone can come on here and tell you about their "wonder" loads and what they THINK that the pressures are but ask them on what pressure testing equipment they were tested on?
I think that I know the answer to that question.

Here is a load off ReloadersNest. Note the comment section.
http://www.reloadersnest.com/detail.asp?CaliberID=74&BulletWeight=200&LoadID=10306

If you think that 100-200fps is going to make a vast difference on a game animal, I think you are very mistaken. A very small difference, yes. If you feel the need for more power, you need to go to a more powerful cartridge, but that is restating the obvious. The .35 Remington has done the job, as designed, for many, many years, so I think that you are worrying about something that is not worth worrying about.

That's my opinion, your opinion may vary.

Leverboy- you are obviously not scared to buy and sell guns as your 3 guide guns are proof. My advice is buy the 35rem.and handload some near max loads with your bullet of choice and shoot them over a chrony to see if they are doing what you want.While no long range wonder it should be all right up close on a bear.
35 rem is on my list of to have rifles that is for sure.Good luck and always use caution/common sense while working up a load.

Thank you 257 i appreciate it. After doing some searching on this forum, what i am after doesn't seem to be such a pipe dream afterall. Seems factory .35 Remington is loaded quite anemic as it is. If Buffalo Bore makes a hotter round that is safely used in our 336's then why not??

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...owflat/Number/1101642/page/2#Post1101642

I read that Buffalo Bore has a load that pushes a 220 grain bullet 2300 fps. I came across that when I googled 35 Remington.

"I think that I know the answer to that question."
Are you sure? Anyone can come on here and be a self proclaimed expert, too.

"ask them on what pressure testing equipment they were tested on?"
Would Hodgdon's Powder Co. be good enough at pressure testing to meet your standards?

Mr. XLTFX's post is based opinion, my post is based on facts. Believe what you will.

leverboy,
2200+ fps is doable in 35 Remington if you will just step it down to a Speer 180gr Hot Core bullet, which by the way is more than enough bullet lead to bring down anything it happens to hit considering the way hot cores penetrate. My books shows 40.0 grains of 3031 at 2236 fps,in either remington or Winchester cases with CCI Large Rifle primers as the most accurate load using this combination. Of course everything

leverboy,
I accidentally posted this too long and cut off the last comment which is a warning that all of my data is from the 1970's however I ain't blown myself up yet using it either.
Flower Child
P.S. Some sissy Lawyer is now going to admonish me for making this information available to y'all but I don't think there is any error in it as I use it all the time in my rifles.

Would this need be filled by the .338 Marlin? That's shooting a 200 grain bullet at well over 2500 fps. I suspect you could slow it down to 2200 with entirely safe pressure if that was the goal.

Of course, you only get one factory load, no component brass and from what I can see no other component bullets, but then I haven't really looked.

But on the bright side it's an excuse to buy another Marlin levergun.

3031 has been shown to be a little too fast for max loads in the 35 Rem but Hodgdon's does list 2232 fps with another powder and two loads over 2100 fps with a 200 grain bullet. That is in the 2003 Hodgdon's manual. They do not list a load using 3031 anymore.

.

leverboy & Jbledsoe,
What JBledsoe says about 3031 may be true however I repeat this is a 180 gr load for the Speer Hot Core FP bullet and by dropping the bullet weight 20grains from a 200grain bullet to a 180grain bullet the kind of velocity you seek is easily doable as this is a lighter weight bullet which I have used for years and found to be no less capable than it's 200grain counterparts. Also this load is an accuracy load not a max pressure blue pill load which has proved itself to me. Perhaps because my rifles are old and built with real steel instead of some pot metal junk alloy this is not a wise thing to do anymore but it has always worked for me.
Flower Child

The 35 Rem is a fine short/nedium range rifle ith great anchoring power with the 200 g. Rem load.Bigger bullets may raise presure too high, lighter (150 g) bullets doe not shhot as well as 200g. If you want power to take anyrhing on the continent, try the 35 Whalen. Easy to load from 35 Rem specs to almost 375 H&H secs. If you are seious about a more powerful rifle, e-mail me re: a Rem BDL 700 in 35 Whalen with Leupold base and rings for $500 pus ship. I am getting old, artheritis in shoulders.

[quote=Leverboy]While the factory fodder seems a little anemic, i was wondering what kind of velocities you .35 rem handloader folks were getting safely with a 200 grain bullet. I am picking up a .35 Remington this week and i will be handloading it. Probably start with H322 as my powder of choice and go from there.
Is 2200 fps safely doable in the .336 20" barrel?? I am not looking for higher velocites to extend my range, but i am looking for bigger power from 100 to 150 yards as i hunt in the Alberta Rockies where both Grizzlies and black bear pose a threat especially once your game is on the ground. If 2200 fps is a pipe dream maybe i should step up to a .356 Win, 358 win .35 whelan or even a .45-70 or .444 Marlin for that matter.[quote=Leverboy]

Check out the Marlin Owners Forum and search for the work of the chap who writes under the "35 Remington" handle. He's done extensive work with the .35 Remington cartridge in the 336 platform. You can also access his research by doing a general search on Google. Factory .35 Remington ammo is purposefully loaded down a bit out of deference to the older Remington pumps and autos. Careful handloading can safely increase the velocity of this great cartridge in a sound 336 action without taking foolish risks. Read "35 Remington" 's work. Safely getting the very most out of the cartridge will require a chronograph. The man's very thorough work is a priceless resource.

PC

...I may be mistaken but I think the Hornady lever evolution loads for the 35 Rem run over 2100fps with the 200 gr. Using that bullet it would be superior out past 100 yds when compared to 200 gr round nose fodder at 2200 easily. Maybe just opting for the Hornady stuff could satisfy you, more energy at range and flatter shooting too.

....The Hornady factory stuff is actually listed at 2225fps, no barrel length given.

I'd be curious if anyone's chron'd the LE ammo in a 24" barrel (like on my 336A). I've been satisfied with the 200gr. Rem RN to this point, but, if it truely turns the 35 into a 200-250yd. round, then I need to find some open ground to hunt.

Lb

2200 with a 200gr is doable. However for your stated needs perhaps a 220gr Speer FT at about 2000 might be better. W748 has worked for me.

Sort of a mini-358Win. Work up, etc.

WN

In case it hasn't been mentioned. There are several outfits that will re chamber your .35 rem to .356 winchester.

The .35 rem is pretty dang effective as is though. 200 gr CL to the right spot is deadly/

Weagle

I have an excellent condition 35 Whalen in Rem 700 BDL with Leupold mount and rings for $500. plus shipping.Good for bear and moose or whatever...
You can load the Whalen down to 35 Remington or up to almost 375H&H velocity with heavier bullets than the 35 Rem can handle.
E-mail me if interested.
syzygy12verizon.net

No chrony here but there has never been anythign stand for a second shot out of my 35 Rem using 200 gr RN. Might be the perfect hunting round.

I agree with Mr. Bledsoe. I have a 336 in .35 and only load to about 2000 fps with a Remington 200 grain RN bullet because that does what I need it to do, but I have researched the subject and am completely convinced that 2200 fps is well within what the rifle can handle. In fact, there are quite a few people who have rechambered the standard .35 Remington 336 to .356/.358 Winchester with good results. That is far more pressure and bolt thrust than factory .35 loads. But even a .30/30 with its 40,000 CUP pressure and larger case head, exerts substantially more bolt thrust than the .35 Remington; so it stands to reason that pushing the pressure to factory .30/30 levels shouldn't cause any problems. The info is out there, you just have to search for it.

This is off of Buffalo Bore's site:


Heavy 35 Remington Ammo - 220gr. JFN (2,200fps/M.E. 2,364 ft. lbs.)

Hornady Leverloution ammo:

MV ME 100yds 200yds 300yds
2225/2198 1963/1711 1721/1315 1503/1003

I have hunted with a fair number of different rifles/calibers over the last 40+ years....incuding the .35 Remington (my first personally bought "deer" rifle). Have handloaded for more than 30 years.

Here's my experience.....it is easy to load the .35 Rem. with 200-220 grain bullets to 2200 fps. However, it is (in my opinion) a waste of time and effort to try to exceed the "standard" load of 200 grains at 2000 fps and just increases the "stress" factor when neaing "maximum" pressures.

The .35 Rem. is effective (very much so) because it throws a large bore bullet at a good velosity. It hits hard and pnetrates well. It is NOT a long range round, nor does it "slap" the animal like a true "high velosity" load.....but that's really not needed anyway. It is GREAT just as designed.

In my experience (and no I can not give you numbers or reasons why...just experience) there are a couple of "magic" levels of velosity. One occurs at about 1800-2000 fps. Below this velosity, the main difference in "killing power" is detirmined by bullet weight and bore size....much like in the days of black powder rounds. The next obvious step in velosity (and reaction to a shot) is at about 2500 fps. Anything in between is basically equal with the difference being bore size and bullet weight.

The .35 Rem. is just above the first "step" in effectivness at 2000 fps, but the next "step" of 2500 fps is out of reach. Even if you could figure a way to get the .35 Rem. to 2500 fps level.....you'd begn to open a whole new can of worms as the bullets designs for the .35 Rem. would not stand up to the increased velosity. The difference between 2000 fps and 2200 fps is insignificant. It will still not be a "long range" round and the effectiveness would not increase. The ony thing accomplished would be more stress due to loading near the limits of pressure.

My advise would be to stick to a safe, sane load at the standard 2000 fps level. If "really" feel a need for more punch.....go to the .358 Win., but don'ttry to make the .35 Rem. into a "magnum" lever gun.

Just my opinion....backed by 40 years of experience (including a period when I tried to "hot rod" ever round I loaded for).

From Speer #9 -- 1974
35 Remington Marlin Model 336 - 20" Barrel
180 Gr Speer Flt nose IMR4064 Max load 42.5 Gr @ 2309 Fps
180 Gr Speer Flt nose IMR4895 Max load 42.0 GR @ 2353 Fps
180 Gr Speer Flt nose IMR3031 Max load 41.5 GR @ 2427 Fps

220 Gr Speer Flt nose IMR4064 Max load 37.5Gr @ 2049 Fps
220 Gr Speer Flt nose IMR4895 Max load 37.0Gr @ 2012 Fps
220 Gr Speer Flt nose IMR3031 Max load 35.5Gr @ 2037 Fps

I have done their old Reloader 11 load from Speer #8 -- 1970 Which list the 180 grainer at 2477 Fps and my common shooter load is their 3031 Load @ 2300 Fps
Note the dates and use only powders of that vintage. I buy old powder at gun shows all the time for just that reason.

Rod in Wasilla Alaska

Chronographed 35 Remington Loads:

I went to the range with the 760 pump in 35 Remington and 2 loads that I have been using. The Speer 180 gr over 32.0 gr of H-4198 and the 200 gr FTX over 30.5 gr of H-4198. Here is what I found:

180 gr Speer 200 gr FTX
2211 2063
2192 2023
2216 2045
2205 2054
2215 2046
avg. - 2208 avg - 2046

The Speer shot real well out of the 760 - I had a 3 shot group of about 1" @ 100 yards. The FTX, which is the most accurate round in my 1966 336, did not shoot that well out of the 760. About 2" @ 100 yards.

I'm going to load both of these bullets using H4895 and AA2520 and see what kind of velocity and accuracy I get. I think a different powder will shoot better with the 200 gr FTX in the 760. I was happy with the velocity of the 180, not so much with the 200.

.

4895 and 4064 work very well in the 35 Rem. so other powders in the same burn rate class should work well. Has anyone tried Varget or RL 15? Modern powder often works well in the old favorite cartridges.

I'm late into this one (as usual) and not exactly on point (pretty normal) but I run a 225gr. HAWK at 1900FPS with no pressure indication and minimal muzzle flash with Re12 in my T/C Contender "Super 14". Not sure what a rifle length barrel might give don't have one to check.
Kevin

Leverboy do what Petercartwright says, followed same advice and am loading 200 gr. CL to 2200 fps with winchester brass and H4895, shoots great shells have been loaded and shot 10 times neck sized only, still chamber great no pressure signs and there is a noticable difference between 2000 and 2200.

Im gonna give some totally different advice, you say black and grizzly are a potential, i would jump right up to a BLR in .358 win. I would use a premium 225gr or 250gr bullet and have utter and total confidence. While a BLR may not be as pretty as a 336 it does handle like a dream, and you could run a 225gr partition or TSX at around 2,600fps just a thought...

.

Good advice, however, some of us do not have unlimited resources, we have to shoot what we have. We can not just run down to Walgreens and buy a 356, or 358, or BLR, we must shoot what we have and we are trying to make the most of what we have.

I've had a 35 rem 336 Marlin since 1973. I've shot deer & hogs of all sizes with that 35 rem. All one shot kills. I load 39 gr of IMR 4064, & Sierra 200 gr RN, CCI 250.

Alfredo

My iron sight rifle is a 35 Reminton Marlin. I was all set to get that 2200 fps with a 200 gr. bullet using AA2520. I figured 2000 fps should be just fine as far as I'm going to shoot peep sights and the hogs get shot in the neck or head so the old corelokt ought to get the job done easily. I also have a 35 Whelen that I load down to 2400 fps pushing the Hornady 200 gr. spire point. Just in case I have to shoot over 150 yards.

Speer no longer recommends those loads for it's bullets w/ those powders.
From the #12 manuel: 38 grs. of IMR 4895, not 42 grs. for 2055 fps. w/ 180 gr. bullet.
Same with the 220 gr. loads. IMR 4064 at 36 grs. and 1840 fps. Not 37.5 grs. and 2049 fps.
The pressures for all of these were measured with the latest electronic measuring equipment, not estimated or guessed at.
Older powders aren't any different. According to Dupont, in 1976, their fastest load with the Remington 200 gr. bullet in a 23 inch barrel, not a 20 inch, is 37.5 grs. of IMR 3031 for 2110 fps. at 34,700 cup. E

Good load, I have been using that exact same load in my Marlin 35 for years, it works great.

Why the mag primers on this load? I've settled on a similar one (for this season anyway), 200gr. Sierra/38.5gr IMR4064/WLR primers.