Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Load Data - 450 Black Powder Express

Does anyone have some Nitro for Black data for loading the 450 BPE round.
Thank you!
Bob Jurewicz

Not familiar with the cartridge. Straight wall or bottleneck? .45 cal?
You want to go from BP to smokeless?
Straight wall is not much of a problem, bottleneck is different.

Its and 1890s British round. Straight wall, rimmed, 3.25" long base .545", neck .479".
I would like to load Nitro for Black. Old loads were 120gr black or 50gr chordite with 300 to 350gr .458" bullet.
Any formulas out there to convert Black or Chordite to Nitro??
Thank you!
Bob Jurewicz

rjj,
The formula is 40% of the black powder weight in IMR4198 as a starting load. In your case 48 grains. Of the three NFB rifles I shoot this is also within a grain or two of the load that regulates best. Of critical importance is using plenty of dacron pillowstuffing, you have to jam as much in over the powder as you can reasonably manage and still seat the bullet. I my 500 I use 13 gr and my 577 17 gr. This is an uncompressed ball about the size of your fist. For your rifle I would think about 10 gr would be about right. I weigh mine just like powder, it takes awhile but I'm not loading 100 at a time either. Don't use any other form of wad or filler. Dacron is safe and won't ring chambers, if you don't want to mess with it, sell the rifle. For the bullet don't go too heavy, alot of 450 guys do this because there are more heavy bullets around than light. I would probably start and finish with a 300. The RCBS 300GC would be my choice. Remember the original loads started at 270 gr plus it seems easier to get a load to regulate with a mid range weight bullet. If you haven't loaded for a double before you want to get the right barrel shooting to the right and left to the left, then carefully increase the powder charge to bring the groups together or nearly so. If they cross back off on the powder. If you can get a chronograph the older printed velocities were quite close, you're looking at about 1800 FPS as a good velocity to regulate but go with what the groups tell you.
Hve fun but remember these old rifles only shot one or two loads well so don't try to make it do what it wasn't designed to do.
Best

Ditto on what 50cal says. I do use a bit more dacron. If you are shooting a double, you might have to tweak things a bit to get regulation, up or down in powder charge. These are super-safe loads in a solid .450, but remember NO AIRSPACE. A single shot might work with something like 5744, but if your rifle won't shoot the 48 +/- IMR or H 4198 with 300 gr. bullet and dacron it's probably not the load. Oh, and you might need to check actual bore diameter and experiment a bit with final bullet size.

I am currently building a .450 single shot on a Ruger #1 and the Badger barrel shoots the above load into pretty cloverleafs at 50 yards. Lastly, if you are going after game with a lead bullet, choose a flat nosed style--like a Keith or LBT. The 300 gr. Hawk with the thinnest jacket is also a standby for the .450BPE

Kifaru and 50 Cal,
Is the dacron a safety issue or a grouping issue? I'm preparing to shoot a double rifle.
Next, What about IMR 3031? I have a published load that says 47.5gr with a 330gr. cast.
Thank you both very very much!!!!
Bob Jurewicz

I found Sherman Bell's article in the DGJ V 10 Issue 3 Express Rifle***. It answered all remaining questions. Coupled with info provided here and tools yet to be acquired I think I'm ready to start loading Nitro for Black 450BPE.
Thanks all!!
Bob Jurewicz

RJJ,
Stay away from 3031. It used to be the go-to powder for this sort of thing but it's performance is erratic. Stick with 4198, it's much more predictable. Sherman Bell did a study on this about three years ago and the results were almost scary, pressures for 3031 were all over the place, not dangerous but not what you'd want to fire in an old rifle.
Have fun.

Ross Seyfried, Sherman Bell and many others have proven that 4198 plus a full case of dacron work safely. I would stay away from 3031. The dacron is a hassle, but provides consistent ignition and pressures at somewhere near original BP pressures.
So it is both a safety and grouping(from the consistency) issue and it protects the base of a lead bullet. Sherman Bell published reports in Double Gun Journal and Seyfried in Rifle Magazine and other places. If you can't find these articles send me a pm and I can probably make you some copies

In re-reading the above posts, one thing needs to be clarified:
UNLESS your rifle is especially proved for the "NITRO FOR BLACK" LOAD(USUALLY a 365 gr bullet at 1800-1850fps; you want a "BLACK POWDER EXPRESS LOAD", NOT A "NITRO FOR BLACK" LOAD. Yes, you will be using a modern nitro powder in 4198, but this 48 gr. and dacron load is far below the pressure level of the CORDITE NITRO FOR BLACK. If you have this extra proof the stamp should be present on the barrels and/or water table. If not,you have a more common 450 BPE that was made for BLACK POWDER ONLY, so stay in that pressure range and 270-300 gr. bullet weight.