Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Speer .224 70grain soft point on deer

Anyone had any experience with these. I don't want the ".224's are too small for deer etc etc" story, just some real life experiences with these projectiles on deer sized animals.

I have been using the Sierra 63 gr very successfully in my .223, but my supply is about to run out and the 70gn Speer has been mentioned as being worthy of a look.

Thanks in advance

Shot one small doe about 25 years ago with one in a 22-250. Shot thru the lungs, she ran about 50 yards and piled up. Penetration was complete, but the bullet hit nothing but ribs and lung tissue. It should be a tougher bullet than the 63gr Sierra, which is billed by Sierra as a varmint bullet, whereas the Speer is advertized as a deer bullet.

I've shot a lot of them in my Rem. 788 22/250 but never at deer. They work really good on varmints and are pretty accurate too.

I'd try the Winchester 64gr Power Points if you can get them.

I spect it'd work out all right as long as it shot. I've never loaded one so could only guess. Once upon a time I did try to get some old 70 grain Barnes to shoot, they'd shoot into a pie plate or so...

The 63 you mentioned is my all time fav 22 cal slug for big game.
No doubt it'll get it done!

Dober

I used the 70grainer from Speer in both the .223 and the .22-250 on deer ( Yeah, I actually got them to shoot in guns with the "wrong" twist) and frankly was not impressed- at least not in the good way...
I have heard lots of good things about the 63 grain Sierras, from people like Dober who I trust, but have not used them personally.
Theres lots of super good premium bullets for the .22s now. Barnes TSXs, Nosler Partitions, Trophy Bondeds... if you want to use cup-n-core, I can report good luck with 60 gr. Hornadys...
Have Fun out there!
Ingwe

Ingwe-I've a small private stash of 55/60 NSB's as well, now there was a darn good bullet!

Dober

Dober; No kidding??? Don't tease me....
I really liked them when I had some back in the day....
Ingwe

They're one of the reasons I go to gun shows anymore, in hopes of finding a partial box or two to stash away.

In all honesty though, the 63 Sierra is the best bullet I've found yet.

Dober

Thats pretty much what Arnold thinks too, uses them in a .219 Zipper..
Ingwe

Ingwe, I've shot them in a fair number of 22's big and small and have yet to be disappointed in how they shot or how they handled game. I shot one of my biggest bruins with the bullet out of my '250 70/Fwt that I used to tote all over.

Check your pm box

Dober

Hi Dober,

Thanks for your comments. I note that the Sierra web site now shows both 63gn and 65gn in .224

http://www.sierrabullets.com/index.cfm?section=bullets&page=rifle&caliberID=3

The 63 is the 'Varminter' brand, the 65 is the 'Game King' brand. My 63's were the 'Varminter' ones (that's what it said on the box). I assume the 63's you are talking about are the same? Ever tried the 65's?

Thanks again

Mike

Dober, I used alot of the Nosler Solid Bases on deer and antelope and really liked them I am now also curious about the 65 gr. Gamekings mentioned in the last post, gotta look those up!
Nothing in pm, maybe try again?
Ingwe

The 55 and 60 grain hornady flat base bullets with the cannelor are really good deer bullets. I shot pigs with the 75 grain Hornady Amax and was really impressed with them as well. Not much in the 180 lb. and under is going to shrug them off. Flinch

I like those 63 Sierras too. They've shot well even in 14 twist 222 I've used them in. 64 Powerpoints (pictured) seem to be decent bullets also. These involved - at least one of them- one of the scapula on the caribou the came from (the back side of).

Very cool, thanx for the pics, I always wondered how the 64 gr. win PPs worked...never tried them. Also thanks for the vote on the 63 gr. Sierras. I keep hearing that from people I actually believe.....gonna have to try them too....
Ingwe

The 65 GK is a great bullet as well. There are all sorts of .224" soft pointed bullets suitable for deer sized game, many of which are discussed in this very thread...

My affection for the 63 Sierras was begun by the fact that I could not get the 60 SP Hornadys to shoot like I wanted them to, but the SMP shape of the Sierra does more readily. (And found a similar deal with the 100 SMP Pro-hunter in my 6mm when I used to hunt a lot with it.)

I've never stuck them into game. I've gotten useful (MOA or better) accuracy with the 70 grain Speer in a 1-12" twist .223 and a 1-14" twist .22-250. That semi-spitzer design makes 'em short enough to stablize where lighter but longer bullets won't.

I've also had the 64 grain WW power point stablize in guns that wouldn't stablize the 60 grain partition. "Beats me." In fact, I've had a few guns that bullet shot really quite well in.

Tom

I have used the 70 Speer a few times on deer and they worked very well in my experience. Good expansion and penetration used the .223 & 22-250 longest shot about 150 yards with the 223. None traveled more than a few feet after the shot.Good shot placement helped I'm sure. The 70 Speer like the 63 Sierra is a semi-spitzer because both bullets were designed during an era when fast twist factory rifles were non-existant and by shortening the profile these heavier bullets give very good accuracy in slower twist barrels. Both bullets have worked very well for me in twist rates as slow as 1 in 14. Have had mixed results with the longer 60gr. bullets such as the Hornady and Nosler. I have never had good luck with the 64gr. Winchester bullet accuracy wise never figured out why, may be gave up to soon? The last time I tried them was in a very accurate 22-284,got some very good velocity and groups measured in feet not inches and no indications that I was running them to hard.

My 225Win puts the 63gr Sierras into very tight groups. But the 62 gr Power Points go into 4" patterns. go figure...

I've had trouble getting 60 Nozler PT's to shoot, and the 64 PP is another bullet I'd use if I didn't have about a world supply of 63's...grin

Flinch mentioned the 55 Horn w/c and I've used that one quite a bit as well.

Actually of the soft points seem to work well on deer/lopes. I kind of gravitated to the 63 Sie cause they shoot so darn well! And, I kind of have a thing for bug hole groups even though I know that in the real world it don't matter that much on deer/lopes.

Now ya wanna hear my stories about the 40 NBT....gasp

Dobro

I was shocked by how well the 64 grain PP worked in my .22-250 1-14" twist. I'd had a couple bags a guy gave me in a trade sitting around. I just loaded them long, stuffed into the rifling, with a fairly light load to iron the kinks out of the brand new brass I'd bought. Frickin' quarter inch groups ... and I don't know what I used. 4064 or 4320 I think but how much? I hate it when that happens!!

I've stuck deer with 3 different .22 bullet. First was a 55 grain Nosler solid base from a .223. That didn't go well. Head-on shot high under the chin. The bullet mushroomed, but didn't have enough momentum left when it met spine to break anything, it just mashed out and stopped. Buck went down but got back up when I was trying to cut it's throat. We had a rodeo. My rifle was a ways away and I was in the way of the guy I was with, he couldn't shoot it. I eventually stabbed it to death. The second one was a head shot with a 52 grain Sierra Matchking shot from a .22-250. That was instantly fatal and pretty icky, there was nothing left forward of the base of her ears. It was sprayed all over the front of the stump in little gray and red pieces with bits of hair. The last one was with a 55 grain trophy bonded bear claw. It messed up a lot of meat but it sure put the deer down.

So ... on average my .22 cal attempts haven't been entirely satisfactory. I hate to lose. At the moment I have no .22 cal centerfires, I have bigger and smaller. If/when I go back I gotta try again. I'd like to give that 55 grain trophy bonded a run at .223 speed instead of .22-250 speed. I'd like to try the 60 grain partition in a little faster twist to see if I can get accuracy. I'd like to try out that 64 grain WW powerpoint and the 65 grain Sierra. I'd like to try the Barnes X 53 grainer.

And ... yeah, I want to hear the 40 NBT story ...

Tom

Mike-sorry that I missed this. I bought a couple of boxes of the 65's when they first came out. But, I never got around to running them and a bud made off with them.

I didn't worry none too much though cause the 63 has been so good to me. If you can find the 63 Sie or the 64 PP then I'd say it's search over. Load em up and go forth and fill up an ark!

I do spect that the 65 would fly a little flatter.

Dober

I have used both the 63 SMP Sierra and the 70 grain SMP Speer out of both 223s, and 22.250s to take deer..both always got the job done on the spot... giving performance similar to a larger caliber and heavier weight bullet...

I prefer the 70 grain Speer, just because if nothing else the extra weight isn't going to hurt... these two bullets have been around for a long time, and remain available because they sell.. and they sell because they work...

all these newer trendy bullets, are trying to fill a niche that the Sierra and Speer SMP bullets here have already been accomplishing for a long time..

I've also shot ONE and ONLY one antelope in my life... but that was taken with a 223, and a 40 grain Ballistic Tip...I had a tag, and the opportunity presented itself when I was carrying that rifle, looking for much smaller game...

had confidence in my shot placement ability ( 150 yds or so).. and put the bullet into the boiler room... antelope ran about 3 paces and was down for the count...

my preference for a bullet would have been the 70 grain Speer first and the 63 grain Sierra in second place..

the 55 grain SMP is also a good choice for antelope sized deer or antelope themselves...

not to steer this off topic, but what are some factory loads that would be good for whitetail deer hunting? So far at the local sporting good store, I've only ran across the Winchester 64gr powerpoints so I bought the only box they had.

Leo

Is that to say they worked or no?

Federal has been loading the 60gr. Nosler partition in both .223 and 22-250 in their premium line for a couple years now...
Ingwe

thanks ingwe, I keep an eye for those loads!

Leo

Federals plain Jane 55 sp is another good load, as is the Rem 55 sp.

Dober

The 70 gr. Speer is a great bullet for deer. My brother shot a 2-point mulie with a 22-250 AI at 150 yds. The deer deer didn't go far at all. My dad shot a doe with his 22-250 with the same load with the same result. Very accurate and deadly on deer.

thanks Mark!

Leo

I used the 70 gr. Speer in my 22-250 for years and had great success with that bullet on deer and a couple of antelope. The last couple of years I have swithed to the 60 gr. Nosler Partitian bullet. Same great results and it shoots a little flatter and more in the same place as my coyote loads. Both bullets hold togather and expand well. I have recovered some on the far side next to the skin and I have had some pass thru. No problem with penetration and minimal blood shot meat.

I sooooo need to get into reloading!!!

You are right on that one, not only does it give you umpteen options, but the old "tailor the load to the gun" thing comes up. Some of the aforementioned factory stuff may not shoot well in your rifle. The big plus with using light, accurate rifles is that you can place with bullets with great precision... well you can't if the gun/load combo isnt quite right.
Im sure youve heard the BIG reason to reload...it saves money.... Yeah, right!
Saves money per shot, you just shoot more! Which of course helps with that precise shot placement. No downside to it,a lot of good info on this site for someone getting started...
Ingwe

I love the 70 gr. Speer. I shoot it in my Remmy R-15. They shoot under and inch as well as the 63 gr. Sierra's. I chose the 70 Speer's since I had about 5 boxes. I took a few pictures this winter for refernce to feed the fire for those that say hunting deer with the 223's is crazy. I killed 3 deer with this bllet last season.



Entrance



Internal entrance



Internal exit



Exit



The shot was about 150 yards and got the top of the heart and both lungs as I recall. She ran 30 yards or so and fell dead. Hope this helps.

Joseph

Fast twist? I looked @ the Rem site, but darned if I could find it.

I believe its 1 in 9.

Joseph

ingwe,

yes, that is the nice thing about reloading:cheaper per shoot thus can shoot more Even before the ammo shortages of today, it is difficult to find factory "deer ammo" in .223rem at the local gun stores. Now, even on-line places are out of .223rem ammo! To add more insult to injury, I went to two local places and they're out of business. Very dissappointing!

I've read that the maximum practical range for the .223rem on deer is about 200 yards. Is this a good estimate? Also read that only good for broadside shoots, no quarter shoots should be taken with this round. Any truth to this?


Leo

I would say thats a pretty good rule of thumb, 200 yds. Least wise its what I personally feel comfortable with. You can sure hit them easily at ranges longer than that, but I want the boolit to do its intended thing, which it should at the closer ranges... I stretch that to 300 when using the .22-250.
Ingwe

Oops, sorry, forgot... Im not a big fan of quartering shots even with the Barnes TSX. If the game has been wounded by any means, you bet. Unwounded and healthy, Id just prefer not to quarter the shots. Just my opinion.
Ingwe

we have had excellent results with the federal premium .223 load with the 55 grain TBBC....never recovered one on a broadside shot.

of the five I've seen shot with it two were bang-flops and none of the others made it out of sight. It does the tomato soup thing on the lungs.

I've taken quartering shots with it on deer up to 180 pounds. I always aim for bone and have only recovered one bullet.

I'd not fret angle, especially love a quartering on so I can zing one in at the point of the shoulder.

As a rule I usually stay out of the shoulder with the .22's. However, I did shoot one last winter through both shoulders to see if the 70 gr would go through. Far as I know it's still going.

Also, I keep my shots within 200 just for fun. Seems more responsible and I'm not that good of a shot at times.

Joseph

Thank You Gentlemen for your feedback! It was very helpful.

Leo

Well, Leomort, did you ever get anything with those 22 cal. bullets??

I've been checking this thread every few days wondering the same .?.?

Almost 15 yrs. later and doesnt even bother to tell us...

Reading through all of this makes me wish Dober still contributed.

Well, as the OP maybe I should be the one to post feedback

I did use the 70gn Speer very successfully, but have now changed to the 64 grain Nosler bonded and that's my go to .223 deer projectile now.

Thanks Mike, I knew you would remember us.

How’s accuracy with those? I’ve heard mixed reviews

Shot some 60 Gr Nosler Partition in a 1-14 twist 22-250 had to walk towards 4ft by 2.5 ft from 100 yards to about 15 yards before I could hit the target all bullets were keyholing! You could hear the sound difference.

In the 'for what it' worth department', my old Sako L46 has a twist somewhere between 13 and 14 as nearly as I can determine using the old tight patch on a cleaning rod method. I guess it is metric or I'm mismeasuring slightly, anyway a really slow twist. It was rechambered from 222R to 223R before I got it.

In determining the heaviest bullet it would stabilize, I found that everything with a lead core up to and including 55 grain was good to go. The 60 gr Partition stabilized (no keyholing) but the groups opened up to almost 2MOA. Anything heavier was useless. The old 45 gr mono bullets were great but any weight above that keyholed. It's funny how some barrels with a certain twist work well with a bullet (or don't work well) and another barrel with the same twist does the opposite.

Anyway, the 55 gr Hornady SP shot well on paper and performed well on deer, so I didn't worry about it.

FWIW, Raven Rock had a good deal on the Nosler 64 grain Bonded bullets last week, as I ordered some they had in the classifieds section.

Best,
Chris in AL

Aren't those discontinued?

Best stock up if so and you're a fan.

They were 250 count for $88.

I do believe discontinued, but I think Norma is still able to get them for there Military/LE ammo line. Someone else may know more about this than me, but they seem to almost be same as the Federal Fusion 62 grain.

They seem to be in stock at SPS all of the time.

https://www.shootersproshop.com/22-caliber-64gr-bonded-solid-base-100ct-blem.html

Mike where you at in nzed?

I got a bit of time in March to whack critters if ur keen. Like to see how those 64’s do on reds.

I’ll be up in Russell till mid March making my way down to Canterbury. If

My nephew used this bullet on deer. I remember one time he shot a mule deer die

My nephew used this bullet on deer. I remember one time he shot a mule deer doe with the 70 grain speer. It broke a rib going in and a rib going out