Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Brief Look at the 375/06 Whelen

was reading an article out of a March 2007 "Shooting Illistrated" titled "Elmer Keith was Right"

In the article, the 06 case was necked up or down from 6 mm to 375 caliber...6mm, 25 cal, 6.5mm, 270 cal, 7mm, 30 cal, 8mm, 338 Cal, 35 Cal and 375 caliber..

the most commonly used "heavy for caliber" bullets were used..

the 06 with a 180 spitzer was listed with an MV of 2900 fps...which most of us would considered hot..

although not the focus of the article, what I thought was interesting was a chart listing Muzzle energy, and then retained energy out to 300 yds...

also interesting was the drop of the bullet with a 2.5 inch at a 100yds zero...

the 06 with a 2900 fps MV, had ME of 3360 ft lbs... and at 300 yds ME was 2150...trajectory was 7 inches low at 300...

two surprising states to me, were the 338/06 with a 250 grainer having an MV of 2550 fps..

and then a 375/06 Whelen with a 300 grain Spitzer...

the 338/06 had ME of 3610,and retained 2565 of it at 300 yds, with a drop of 9.5 inches...

never using it myself, but it warrants a look see for Elk hunters...the 375/06 Whelen..

MV was 2500... ME was 4165 ft/lbs... at 300 yds retained energy was a whopping 2860 ft/lbs and the trajectory drop was 9.5 inches once again..

ya get those big bullets moving, they don't give up much momentum as they fly away from the muzzle..

with Stats like the 375/06 I am surprised you don't see and hear about a lot more guys carrying those for elk hunting..

even my 338/06 looks pretty lethal, with a 250 grainer and an MV of 2400 or 2500 fps.. for about anything ya might wanna hunt..

I'm a little weirded out by some of those numbers. For instance, how is an '06 case throwing a 300gr bullet at 2500 when my much larger .340 case is maxed out (at least by Hodgdon data) at 2570 with only a 275 grainer? Moreover, the hottest max load for the .375 H&H (again per Hodgdon) is only 145fps faster and that's with a compressed load of 4350.

Pressure test data for a .375 Hawk from Z-hat CD(.375-06 improved or .375 Gibbs) shows 3450 fps. is absolute max with 300 gr. Only slightly slower than a .375 H&H. It is about like the .30 Gibbs just equals a factory .300 H&H. Try a .375 Hawk with a 250 gr.; it is a great elk killer. Also a 235 at 2850 fps.in my gun.

2900 fps with an '06 and 180 gr. bullets ? What's that ? The Federal HE load out of a 26 inch barrel ?
Be interesting to see how well that ammo handles 90 degree temperatures.
I understand the .375-06 has never been popular due to the lack of shoulder of the case.
You'd probably be better off using the .350 RM or the .284 Win cases. E

The shoulder deal on the .375 -06 or its variants is a fantasy of people who drink and talk guns too much. The Hawk line has a 17.5 dg shoulder and it work fine up to .411. My only grip is that the angle isn't steep enough and I get stretching. To me the real pain is case forming from 35-06 brass. I will try 30-06 cylinderical brass for the next batch. Dave Schovill has an article in Rifle about working up the Hawk line. Find it; it is a great reference. The load data is in the Barnes manual's 3 &4.

I get 2825 with either 235 Speers or TSX's. in 90 deg. TX weather.

The 375 whelen might be worth another look see. I wanted to build one previously but backed out and ended up with a 375 H&H. I sold the 375 H&H while cutting back on rifles. What powders are you using docbill?

Why not just get a 9.3x62 and load to modern pressures?

My first suggestion is go to the Z-Hat home page and look at the .375 Hawk data and I think the Scoville/Rifle Hawk article is there. Also the 3 & 4 Barnes manuals. Z-Hat has a CD with a bunch of load data and most of it is pressure tested from the fellow that started North Fork Precision. My loads are IMR 4895 and RL-15. IMR 4320 will work also.

On top of this I have it in a Rem. 760 pump. My max. loaded length is 3.25" because of the ejection port size. A bolt gun will let you load longer.

The .411 Hawk duplicates, on a '06 hull, the 400/450 rimmed British cart. Want to hunt elk in the pole patches and buffalo with the same gun?

There's an article on the .375 Whelen Improved in HANDLOADER #119, Jan.-Feb. 1986.

Geez, you mean this isn't the latest news?

Would also like to hear the results of the hundreds of elk taken with the .375/06 and various others cartridges that prove, once and for all, that Elmer was right.

Guys,

was just reflecting the info in the article..

as mentioned, a couple seemed hot to some folks..

however I do know that 2900 fps with a 180 is quite do'able out of an 06, when using H4831SC and staying within safe pressures..

2500 fps out of a 338/06 with a 250 grainer is no problem..

QFT

It's a much easier path.

Rifle loonies are exactly that .... loony! I had mine built before the 9.6 x62 was commonly available. In fact there is no ammo available for it here in town without special order. If I have to go to that trouble, why not just make your own.

If one were ultimately practicle, why not just buy a light weight .375 Ruger, shoot 235 gr. TSX's at 2850 fps., and be done with it.

How boring would that be!

Hemi

9.3 x 62 is a great solution. I question whether .375 bullets are generally too hard for the .375-06.

Don't you know that Elmer bashing is fashionable around here? Mostly by those whose total experience on shooting and hunting wouldn't add up to a decent year for old Elmer.
I do think that modern bullet technology has changed the equation a bit but one could do a lot worse than follow Elmer's advice on cartridge selection. Put a heavy for caliber bullet in the chest cavity and you have a dead critter.
It's definitely old news that the more you open up the mouth on a given case, the more efficiently you will launch the projectile in terms of fpe. You gotta love efficient cartridges!

I know an older gentleman who has a custom Mauser in 338-06 and a pair of 375-06's in a Ruger Single Shot and a Model 70 Win.

They have been very effective on Elk over the years.

Sadly Frances is unlikely to make it past this years elk season, but those rifles will continue to reliably bring home the livers he so loves.

Great discussion by the way.

Old thread I know. But this weekend the Ruger Number 3 Francis built in 375 Express finally made it home with me.

I was doing a search for load info when this thread came up on Google.

The rifle has a 29 inch barrel and weights 9 pounds with a Leupold M8-3X in Weaver rings.

looks like it is my job to get her back into the elk.

These were my thoughts..

As much as I love my 9.3 I'll leave it at home when I'm after elk.

have read you can use cut down 375H&H collet dies has anyone here tried that?

Ed

This is what I am working on.

My test bullets are 250 grain Accubonds and 230 grain ACP bullets

Although the .375 H&H was serving quite well with elk, I many years ago decided to try the shorter cartridge/lighter rifle approach. Took a nice Mauser action to Paul Marquardt and had it barreled as a .338/375. Obtained the effective heavier bullet performance at same cost as a 30:06 wildcat re-make, with fewer reloading issues. I think the E. Keith wrote about elk experience with a .378 setup as well. Didn't try that one.

I might just try this

I looked at building a 375 Scovill/Hawk on a Kimber action/Montana stock.

At the end of the day, the cost seemed exhoribtant.

I bought a Winchester 375 H&H SS. Half the cost or less of the 375 Scovill/Hawk build. A pound or two heavier though.

Super old thread.

375-06 only because you want one.
Tweaked 375 H&H or Ruger if you desire a 375 caliber.
9.3x62, and 35 Whelen will also suffice.

My choice is 338-06.

Put lighter loads in the case? That will equal the Scovill and lighten the rifle............and qualify loonyism.

On a similar vein........yet largely unspoken:
Everyone knows that the same bullet weight in neighboring calibers favors the lesser caliber for SD and BC so if we compare say a 168gn weight in 280A1 vs .30/06 @ 2800fps or 250gn weight in .338/06 vs .35 Whelan @2500fps and from the same brand with similar same design/construction, what perceived differences "could" be noted in the field, if results are averaged out?

Go:

Why would anyone bother with that when they have been able to buy 9.3x62 since 1905?

Isn't that the truth...

YEAH for the 9.3X62 yesterday. 285gr, Prvi---65 gr, big Game-----2550 fps average. What is not to like!

Not a wildcat, you can buy factory ammo and can make cases outa .30-06 brass.

Hip

GUN LOONEY! plain and simple.

Am always astounded at how elk have apparently become so much harder to kill than they were back in Elmer's heyday--despite the improvement in bullet construction.

Open up the bolt face and make a 375 Ruger.

Agreed MD!

I’ve killed a few elk with cartridges like the .300 Win Mag, 8mm Rem Mag and .338 Lapua Mag. None died any quicker or more dramatically than when shot with my .270, .308 or .30-06! Just saying.

Ya know MAC, I started this thread, 15 years ago....

even tho I knew about the 9.3 x 62 back then, I started the thread, as I was a fairly good friend of John Noveske, before he got famous with all of his AR work and rifles. He had built a 375/06, and I had gotten to fire it a couple of times when I ran into him at our local gun range here in Grants Pass. Less recoil than the 375 H & H, but was not far behind it, and also it was easier to just neck up 30/06 brass, then try to run down 375 H & H brass.

I didn't make one, but it did have me look at the 338/06, which I did make and still have on a Model 70.. reboring a 270 barrel. It was just as comparable as the 338 Win Mag vs the 338/06.

Noveske afterwards, made a 416/06. I got to shoot that one also over at the range. it was a heavy hitter within 250 yds., about as far as I fired it...

After he let that run its course, he ended up switching over to the WSM case. which he put on Rem 600 actions. I know he made and hunted with, those in 375 bore, 416 bore and 458 bore. Hornady made the dies for them, and even sold them in their line up. I've seen them several times.

Sadly John Noveske died in a car accident on the way home, back around that time. Took a curve too fast, rolled his Toyota Land Cruiser into a stone rock about the size of a VW Bug. Died at the scene, not wearing a seat belt. His company is still alive around here tho.

How would a 3006 with a 200 grain bullet compare?

Thanks

Probably quite well. I say that after having had a .338-06, a couple of .35 Whelens, a .35 Whelen Improved, a .375 Whelen Improved, and a .411 Hawk.

Angus1895,

I have used the 200-grain Nosler Partition in the .30-06 since 1977 for at least some of my elk hunting. At that time the 200 Partition was the original lathe-turned model, which Nosler variously called a round-nose, semi-spitzer and something else I've forgotten. At the time I was primarily hunting hunting in thicker timber, partly because at that time that's where the majority of Montana elk hung out during rifle season. A "long" shot was around 100 yards.

They could be at just about any angle, and my rifle was a "sporterized" 1903 Springfield, and the load I worked up turned out to get around 2550 fps at the muzzle. (Didn't find that out until 1979, when I bought my first chronograph.) It worked very well, and I've never recovered one--including after Nosler started impact-extruding their bullets around the same time I bought the chronograph--and the 200 became a spitzer. I had a tang-safety Ruger 77 by then, and heated up the load to around 2675 fps.

Have still killed more elk with the .30-06 that any other cartridge, and the list of rounds that Eileen and I have used includes the .257 Roberts, 6.5 PRC, .270 Winchester, 7x57, 7mm Remington and Weatherby Magnums, .308 Winchester, .300 WSM, .300 Winchester and .300 Weatherby Magnums, and .338 Winchester Magnum. Would still happily hunt elk with a .30-06 and the 200-grain Partition spitzer, because none of them ever went more than 45 yards before falling--and I still haven't recovered one of the bullets.

Because he wanted a lever action ,model 95 Winchester, he could shoot spire point bullets in. As a back up brown bear stopper . A very efficient cartridge and a very good stopper given
the right constructed bullet.
Alaskan master guide Rd Stevenson used one.

My post was in response to Mac question why would anyone want a 375/06.

Mule Deer

Reading previous posts many moons ago I basically switched to a 200 grain Nosler partitions in my 3006.

Thanks for your advice and

Thank the 24 hour classifieds for having them priced economically back then.

I think comparing “ heavy for caliber” loads should let the 3006 have a 200 grain versus the 180 grain listed by the OP.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah………..

They have also become microscopic as you said somewhere so that we must have very expensive(and ugly) 1/2 MOA rifle to hit them.

Elmer's coyote round.

Nice "coyote," Ed!