Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only 45-70 MAGNUM V 405 WINCHESTER

I haven't researched the 405 Winchester all that much but what I've read has been interesting. When all is said and done as far as price of components and availability of components. Which is a better all around North American under 200 yard gun, the 405 Winchester or a 45-70 loaded to modern standard?

Neither.

However I like the 405 better. Many reasons but it is mostly my opinion. You do need to handload to get anything worthy as you know. The commerical Hornady stuff isn't worth a tinkers damn. IMHO

I have never been impressed witht he 45-70 and I have seen it used a lot on game and I have used it some on game..I like the 45-90 better but again it wasn't my idea of a quality elk rifle.

I have a friend that purchased a Win. M-95 in .405, had the gun throated so he could seat the 400 gr. bullets out and they did the feed work at the same time..He gets 2000 FPS plus with a 400 gr. bullet and that equals the legendary 450-400 Nitro express of double rifle fame, a caliber that I have used extensively on Buffalo, and to a lesser degree on Lion and elephant...

I think this is the ideal DG lever action round and a great rifle...My friend has used it in our Tanzania camp with perfect results as one would expect with those kind of balistics.

I purchased a 30-06 in the new Win. 95 SRC just for this .405 conversion, but after shooting some 220 gr. Noslers at 2450 FPS with it, I just decided to stick with it the way it is...458 did some testing and that 220 gr. Nosler partition out penetrated all other bullets including the monolithics..I re-tested his results and came up with the same results...My new in the thick stuff elk rifle. I did restock the buttstock with a shotgun butt and recoil pad, as the SRC cresent stock was too short for my long frame and couldn't be fixed. I like it much better now.

My question would be that it a 400 gr 405 is running 2,000 + how is that generating more energy than 400-405 gr or 425-430 LBT's running out of a 45-70 at 2000-2200. Not doubting the 405 Winchester at all and the only thing holding me back from getting on in a Ruger #1H is component cost and availability. Also with a properly throated #1 in 45-70 you can run 500 grainers at about 1800 or so if need be. I have a #1 in 45-70 right now and guess I'll have to shoot it on game for a while before I make the final judgement. How does the 405 lend itself to lighter loads for whitetail? I know the 45-70 you can back down without any issues. Any concerns with the 405?

Also, good to here the old 06' made some points with the 220 grainers. Have a #1RSI in 06' that I shoot 220 grain sierra's out of. Love it. An ideal walking gun for whitetail or black bear and they don't hardly move after she speaks.

You shoot that 45-70 in a #1 with a 500 gr load at that velocity, and you'll know you touched it off..... the 45-70 #1 is a seven and a quarter pound rifle -- good luck with that.

I have the #1 H in 405 Winchester, and I can tell you that it has enough recoil for my liking when benching it . . . not bad off hand or from an improvised field rest. I am getting 2450 ft/sec out of the 300 grainers with a good case full of Benchmark or H4895. The factory fodder clocks 2275 out of my rifle, and shoots very accurately. My handloads are getting right at 4,000 ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle. I know folks say that the #1 has accuracy issues, but mine shoots pretty nicely with my best group going sub moa with a 300 gr X bullet.

I use a 41 mag pistol bullet (210 gr JHP) for rabbits and grouse. Light load of AA5744.

I also have a couple 45-70's, and they are also both very accurate pieces -- an H&R 1871 Buffalo classic and a Marlin 1895. If you're going to stretch your range out to 200 yards, I think the 405 might be a better way to go.

brinky...I don't think you can go wrong with either caliber if you are handloading... To me the only reason I own a .405 over a .45-70 is that my primary revolver round is the .41 Magnum and I can use all the jacketed and cast bullets for plinking.

I think the biggest question you should ask yourself is what kind of rifle do you want for the type of hunting you do. The selection of rifles in .405 is much smaller than in .45-70. You can also get much smaller and lighter rifles in .45-70...

Bob

I have touched off heavy 500's out of a 45-70. Not for plinking without a doubt but manageable for the intended purpose. I also have my shooting rest made so when shooting off a bench the butt of the stock is in my shoulder pocket and not rolling up on my collar bone like most rests tend to do when you're 6'2"+ I really dig the 405 and it gets kudos for being my favorite presidents toy. I suppose one of each wouldn't be bad. I don't plan to go to Africa but that never stopped me from buying a gun. I really like the 45-70 because of the range you can load for it. I don;t know a ton on how to load the 405 but in good time. I will probably get a #1H in 405 soon enough.

I have noticed that a LOT of fellas tend to use flat nose hardcast slugs in their big 45 rifles. The fellas who shoot 405's GENERALLY use an expanding bullet. Complaints that the 45 rifles aren't good killers seem to have a slug that for all intents and purposes performs the same as a 500 gr solid from a 458 mag or a Lott. Who would use a non-expanding slug on an elk,moose or bison when an expanding bullet or a soft cast bullet will penetrate just fine and kill like you dropped a safe on the critter's head??? A 45 caliber should outperform a 41 caliber any day of the week as a game killer using similar design slugs in both guns. Put a hardcast slug in a 405 and it isn't going to do any better than any other solid bullet in any caliber if it doesn't hit the "X".

It's easier to put the bullet on target at 200 yds with the 405 than the 45-70. Unless you're shooting a 45-70 the way it should be shot with barrel mounted ladder sights,that allow for quick easy elevation adjustment.
I've killed elk with both cartridges at ranges from 150-200 yds. The 45-70 when hot loaded with 350 gr bullets is the drizzlin shxts for an elk cartridge. However load the thing like it should be, a 500 gr bullet either grease groove or paper patched running at 1200 fps and its an elk masher dulux.
The 405 when loaded proper with a good 300 gr bullet is a very good preformer.

With a Sims recoil pad on my Browning 1886 45-70, 22" barrel 400g bullets at 2000 fps are managable off the bench.

I think a 350 gr running 2200 fps would do an Elk in just fine out to 200 YARDS. Just like anything else, know how to shoot it. No doubt if I were an avid Elk hunter out west in the great wide open I would shoot a 338 UM. But in the thick stuff where 200 yds is way out there big shoulders is King. I primarily hunt big bodied Whitetail, heavy Black Bear and maybe an Elk someday. The problem with folks shooting hard cast bullets is they sometimes don't know how to shoot them. When you shoot hard cast bullets you need to put them on bone. If you don't hit something solid they will just punch straight through like a FMJ. I dropped a 450+ lb Black Bear right in its' tracks with a 405 gr hard cast from a 450 Marlin Guide Gun. Smashed both shoulders!