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#3057870 - 05/26/09 GUNS OF CROSSFIRE TRAIL
jorgeI Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 28804
Loc: Orange Park, Florida
I have them all identified save one. The one used by actor Brad Johnson that was equipped with a telescopic sight and a bolt action. The bullet looked like a German 11mm but I'm not sure. Can one of you guys help? jorge

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#3058032 - 05/26/09 Re: GUNS OF CROSSFIRE TRAIL [Re: jorgeI]
Dave_in_WV Online   content
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 10/12/03
Posts: 8773
Loc: West Virginia
There were bolt action rifles chambered for the 45-70 but I can't remember what name they were under. Some were submitted for trials with the US military.
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#3058051 - 05/26/09 Re: GUNS OF CROSSFIRE TRAIL [Re: Dave_in_WV]
Tarheel101 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/07/07
Posts: 175
Loc: North Carolina
I remmeber seeing that a good while back and I think that was a Mauser model 84 with the tubular magazine.

Tarheel
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#3058095 - 05/26/09 Re: GUNS OF CROSSFIRE TRAIL [Re: Tarheel101]
steve99 Offline
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Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3908
Loc: Eastern PA
I think that was a Remington Keene rifle. Had a tubular magazine IIRC. Good movie.
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#3058109 - 05/26/09 Re: GUNS OF CROSSFIRE TRAIL [Re: steve99]
MagMarc Online   content
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 09/27/08
Posts: 11576
Loc: Blue Ridge
Good movie and even better book.

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#3058121 - 05/26/09 Re: GUNS OF CROSSFIRE TRAIL [Re: MagMarc]
shootinurse Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 8996
Loc: northcentral PA
Rmember seeing the rifle, but couldn't identify it. Great movie.
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#3058343 - 05/26/09 Re: GUNS OF CROSSFIRE TRAIL [Re: shootinurse]
StubbleDuck Offline
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Registered: 11/19/06
Posts: 4570
Good flick, of which I happen to have a copy and have watched it many times. When Bo Dorn [Brad Johnson's character] goes to murder the young cowboy Langston, Dorn rolls the bullet in the creases of both sides of his nose - to lubricate it a bit.

One gets a good view of the cartridge that's considerably shorter than a .45/70 altho it does look to be approximate .45 cal. I agree the rifle was an early bolt gun of some kind.

Also of late I've also been studying the .460 Smith & Wesson cartidge as a candidate to shoot in a single-shot Encore or Handi-Rifle ..... (along with the .45 Colt or .454C artridges, and possibly even the .410 shotshell).

Bo Dorn's sniper round appears to be roughly the same size as the .460S&W, but I don't know what it actually is either.

Been a long time since I read Louis L'Amour's book. Did he write about the rifle and cartridge? Something L'Amour was always good at was documenting equipment, or person, or events or places (even intricate land characterisitcs) as accurate!

Another of L'Amour's books was "The Fergussen Rifle," about a rifle owned by a British major during the Revolutionary War.

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#3058347 - 05/26/09 Re: GUNS OF CROSSFIRE TRAIL [Re: StubbleDuck]
WheelchairBandit Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 05/22/02
Posts: 11279
Loc: Peoplez Republik
I'm pretty sure it was a Remington Keene-I haven't seen the movie in awhile,but I seem to remember it having an exposed hammer.

Here's what a Remington looks like-


WB.
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#3058747 - 05/26/09 Re: GUNS OF CROSSFIRE TRAIL [Re: WheelchairBandit]
StubbleDuck Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 11/19/06
Posts: 4570
Good one W.B. That looks like the rifle in the movie less the scope.

What cartridge does that Remington Keene take?

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#3058805 - 05/26/09 Re: GUNS OF CROSSFIRE TRAIL [Re: StubbleDuck]
shootinurse Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 8996
Loc: northcentral PA
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Gun control...schemed by tyrants and supported by fools.

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#3061581 - 05/27/09 Re: GUNS OF CROSSFIRE TRAIL [Re: shootinurse]
StubbleDuck Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 11/19/06
Posts: 4570
 Originally Posted By: shootinurse

Thanks for the link to that article.

After reading and researching a little more, I still think "Bo Dorn's" Crossfire rifle wasn't in .45/70.

The article that link goes to says the Remington-Keene was chambered in .45/70, but also the .43 Spanish cartidge and one other round I can't remember as I post this. Both of the latter rounds had creases in the casings, something "Dorn's" ammo didn't have.

I still think Dorn was using something like a .40-60 round in his rifle. The .45/70 is frequently almost as long as one's finger, but the round I saw in the Crossfire flick was much shorter than a .45/70 and more slender.

When googling cartridges, I came across a fellow making .40-60's from .40-65 brass. He was cutting off almost a 1/2 inch of the 40-65's case. For anyone interested!

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#3061761 - 05/27/09 Re: GUNS OF CROSSFIRE TRAIL [Re: StubbleDuck]
jorgeI Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 28804
Loc: Orange Park, Florida
The bullet looked like an 1mm Mauser to me, hence the question. jorge

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#3062151 - 05/27/09 Re: GUNS OF CROSSFIRE TRAIL [Re: jorgeI]
StubbleDuck Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 11/19/06
Posts: 4570
 Originally Posted By: jorgeI
The bullet looked like an 1mm Mauser to me, hence the question. jorge

Do you mean the 11mm Mauser? I'll have to watch the flick again, but Dorn's round didn't have a "cannilure" in the [cartridge] casing like pics I've seen of of the 11mm and .43 Spanish cartidges.

Of course some might say knowing exactly what the cartridge was wasn't as important as learning that that rifle model was the Remington-Keene. But whatever, learning what little I have about Crossfire Trails firearms taught me much more than I previously knew!

Tom Selleck did, BTW, donated seven "movie guns" to the Buffalo Bill Museum in Cody, WY. Those guns included the ones he used in "Monte Walsh," "Quigley Down Under" and "Crossfire Trail."

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#3062168 - 05/27/09 Re: GUNS OF CROSSFIRE TRAIL [Re: StubbleDuck]
jorgeI Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 28804
Loc: Orange Park, Florida
sorry, I meant 11. I can't find good pictures of those old Mausers either to make a comparison. Alo might the rifle be a French Lebel (not the 8mm)? jorge

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#3356305 - 10/04/09 Re: GUNS OF CROSSFIRE TRAIL [Re: shootinurse]
3dtestify Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 1211
Loc: Central California
Beau Dorn's sniper rifle is a Remington Keene deluxe grade 'B' sporter chambered for .40-60 Marlin & Ballard. The majority of sporters were chambered in .45-70 Govt., such as the Remington keene used by actor James Wainwright(Mingo) in Clint Eastwood's movie Joe Kidd. I believe there is a .40-60 Remington Keene on display at NRA's national firearms museum (American Riflemen, April 1972).


Edited by 3dtestify (10/04/09)

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#3356318 - 10/04/09 Re: GUNS OF CROSSFIRE TRAIL [Re: 3dtestify]
Gene L Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 06/15/06
Posts: 4773
Loc: Georgia
The cannulure in the case was a crimp to hold the bullet in a tubular magazine, I'm thinking. Lots of original paper patched bullets for magazine rifles had that because they couldn't crimp the case mouth because of the paper.

I've got some 11 mm brass, it isn't cannulured, but the case head is funny-shaped. At any rate, they likely didn't use real bullets and real cases in the movie.

I think there must be a prop company in Hollywood that has that Remington Keene rifle; I've seen it before in the "Sons of Katie Elder." The bad guy was firing off a few rounds at a target with it.
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#3357657 - 10/04/09 Re: GUNS OF CROSSFIRE TRAIL [Re: Gene L]
3dtestify Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 1211
Loc: Central California
I believe the Remington Keene .45-70 grade 'B' sporter used in both 'The Sons of Katie Elder'(1965) and 'Joe Kidd'(1972) is the same rifle with minor changes to the optics & the magazine tube. It was probably provided by Stembridge Arms, the Hollywood prophouse source for movie weapons. The rifle used in 'Crossfire Trail' was on display at the NRA museum a couple of years ago in a display titles, "Gun of the silver screen" & the American Rifleman article errantly listed it as a .45-70 Govt. caliber. I'm not sure if this rifle is different from the .40-60 Marlin & Ballard Remington Keene in the NRA collection. The rifle pictured in this thread is a .45-70 Frontier/U.S.I.D. Indian Police rifle with a 24" round barrel & straight grip stock. The grade 'B' sporters differed with a 24-1/2" half round/half octagonal barrel, upgraded wood stock with pistol grip & checkering. Other rare chamberings for these rifles included .43 Spanish & .44-40 WCF.


Edited by 3dtestify (10/05/09)

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