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The best info to get right now would be the name of the factory ammo that was being overloaded. Bad ammo isn't a rifle design issue.
If I had a blown rifle of any type my lawyer would deposition Dr. Howell post hast.
Personally if I had info like that I wouldn't wait one minute to get it out to the public, and I would hope the ammo company went the way of the sabre toothed tiger over the whole issue.
Ignorance is not confined to uneducated people.
WHO IS JOHN GALT? LIBERTY!
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Those 9 small lugs are why I had my gunsmith laboriously lap all 9 into contact. It was a chore, and he made me pay for it, but I don't regret the expense at all...especially not now.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Greetings Ken, I trust you are doin well. I've owned Weatherbys all of my life, including German, Japanese and now American made. I've shot thousands or rounds through them, both factory and handloaded stuff, using published data, some from the old Weatherby Guide and some concocted on my own. I've used them in extreme heat (Africa 110 deg) and cold weather (down in the 20s). I've never had this type of catastrophic failure, but then again nothing is outside the realm of possibilty as virtually every action made I'm sure has had issues. I CAN however attest to hot factory ammo. A few years ago prior to a safari, I was pressed for time so I ordered several boxes of 180Xs (not TSXs)of the same lot number as they were very accurate in my rifle. A few weeks before going I was practicing with them ( same 300 I've owned since 2000 US made) and I ran into stuck bolt and popped primers. I contacted Weatherby and they wanted to see the rifle but I declined, but they did ask for the ammo back and they in turn sent me double the order with Nosler Partitions. Those worked great and I've taken over 15 head of game with it from AFrica to Maine. I hand load now exclusively, always use a chronograph and I keep my loads to around 3200- 3240 fps with no problems with great accuracy and no issues. jorge
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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To all,
This is the first that I have heard of significant problems with centerfire factory loads in any cartridge or rifle!
Is this news? I thought that I was up to date on this stuff!
All guns should be locked up when not in use!
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Campfire Member
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"The sky is falling, the sky is falling, run for your lives": said Chicken Little!
I have never seen such disinformation by so many uninformed people as I have on this board. Back up what you infer with facts and proof or back off! I have been shooting for fifty years and handloading for over forty and I have NEVER!! heard of, seen or had any proof of a Weatherby action blowing up. Most of my friends are handloaders and shoot Weatherby's and none of them have ever been hurt. I hope that the next thing you clowns hear from are Weatherby's lawyers!
Last edited by Oldtrader3; 10/17/09.
CDR3
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I'm so worried about about my Mark V I'm shooting it tomorrow. This is the internet so all of the rumors must be true . Not a single fact posted or found by google fu, it's all hear say.
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LOL
Lawyers? So what was stated as slanderous, or did you even read the whole thread?
I suspect the ammo manufacturer, besides yourself, are the only one's even breaking a sweat.....
So I guess from your standpoint, RCBS, Redding, nolser, et-al should just quit selling stuff if this little blip would concern them, and the lawyer you have recommended Weatherby seek as council on this thread...LOL
Good points on the internet misinformation possibility. Anyone who reads ANYTHING written, let alone the internet and doesn't verify the information before acting on it, is a fool... especially those naysaying anything said here can't be true.....
Allen
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I found this on the net, very interesting reading.
Testing the Mark V Action This fifth and final prototype action had been built with the help of a newly-hired engineer, Fred Jennie. It was even more streamlined, and also incorporated a new simplified trigger and safety mechanism to reduce tooling and manufacturing costs. Was this the safest action ever produced, as Weatherby claimed? Roy thought that, finally, it was time to subject his new action to vigorous performance tests. Built on the prototype action, a rifle in .300 Weatherby Magnum caliber was used for the tests. Prior to any firing, careful measurements were taken of the diameter of the bolt face housing, head space measurements were recorded, and all other pertinent dimensions. The first test firing was with a cartridge that had been loaded with 82 grains of 4350 DuPont powder, using the 180-gr. bullet. This load gave an average breech pressure of 65,000 psi. After firing, there was no sign of pressure and extraction was easy. The same 82-gr.load was fired in the Mauser action and a slight sticking of the cartridge case resulted. Four more loads with the powder charge being increased in two-grain increments were prepared, each one using 4350 powder and the 180-gr. bullet. After firing the 84-gr.load, there was still no sign of pressure and no sticking of the cartridge case, even though the breech pressure had been increased to almost 75,000 psi. When firing this 84-gr load in the Mauser action, it caused a blown primer and it was almost an impossibility to extract the cartridge case. When the load was increased to 86 grains in the Mark V, the cartridge case began to show signs of pressure, but it still did not stick and extracted easily. Breech pressures were 85,000 to 95,000 psi. A measurement of this fired cartridge case showed that it had stretched at the belt by .0005 inches. When the 88-gr.load was fired in the Mark V with pressures in the neighborhood of 100,000 psi, there was a slight sticking of the cartridge case making the bolt slightly difficult to open, but the cartridge case could still be easily extracted. In measuring the belt again, it had now swelled .002 of an inch, from .533 to .535. For the final test the cartridge case was filled with powder, leveling it off at the top. This was 90 grains of powder. Mter firing, the bolt was difficult to open, but without exerting too much pressure it could be opened and the case extracted. There were now extreme signs of pressure on the case, but no gas had escaped back into the magazine and the primers showed very slight signs of leaking. The belt of the cartridge case still measured .535 inches. Mter this firing, a difference between the outside diameter of the head of the bolt and the inside diameter of the barrel of .004 inches (or .002 a side) was noted. Even with this terrific overload, there was still no swelling or damage to any part of the bolt, receiver or barrel. The head space was checked between each test firing and at no time was there any change noted in the head space. Weatherby was extremely excited after these tests, and felt certain that the Mark V would be the safest action of all time! Some time later, after additional working models of this prototype had been produced, one last experiment was made. A 180-gr. .30 caliber bullet was lodged in the throat of the barrel. A standard load of 78 grains of 4350 and the 180-gr. bullet was chambered and fired, with the following results: both bullets traveled out the barrel, pressures were tremendously high, the primer was pierced letting gases enter the interior of the bolt, hitting the firing pin sleeve which acted as a piston, loosening the bolt sleeve cap somewhat. The bolt was opened by hand. The cartridge case remained in the chamber, but no problem was involved in tapping it out with a steel rod. The case appeared to be in very good condition with the exception of the primer being pierced. In checking the dimensions of the barrel and action, it was found that the barrel in front of the receiver ring expanded from 1.147 inches to 1.1496 inches. The diameter of the bolt head expanded from. 7178 to. 7190. Head space increased from .2163 to .2174. All other dimen- sions remained the same as prior to the test. This experiment was repeated 15 additional times. The severest test was when a 220-gr. bullet was placed in the bore, and a standard 180-gr. round fired in back of it. On this particular firing, the head diameter of the cartridge increased to .545 inches. It was also noted after these additional IS firings that the head space was set back a mere .001. This was truly the ultimate in tests for the strength and safety of this remarkable new action. __________________ skipper \ That article about FRED JENNIE must have been around the 1960's. ROY WEATHERBY put out the design ritera around the middle 1950's and FRED JENNIE did all the design work and fabrication at WEATHERBY request.
Thus saith thr lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeh from the lord. Jeremiah 17:5 KJV
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Those 9 small lugs are why I had my gunsmith laboriously lap all 9 into contact. It was a chore, and he made me pay for it, but I don't regret the expense at all...especially not now. Not to say you may not have gotten what you paid for, but it is a physical impossibility to have all nine lugs touching equally. When two or more surfaces reside in parallel planes, there can only be one primary locator, or one lug or pair of lugs. The other lugs will simply be the secondary, or otherwise known as along for the ride. It's just the math and engineering of it all, nothing more.
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Campfire Ranger
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If the bolt or portions thereof ejected out the back of the rifle, then not only were pressures very high, but something else mechanically failed.
I once had a couple boxes of .25-06 factory ammo that were 300 fps shy of spec on velocity. I suppose if they make that kind of error, a different factory could also load some 300 fps to the high side.
Didn't Weatherbys used to have a long freebore, ahead of the chamber, to hold down pressures?
metal parts can fail unexpectedly for three reasons, under normal stress. Non-metallic inclusions (impurities), mechanical defects (voids or seams), or heat treating mistakes. Could be the brass case or the metal parts of the action.
Sounds like two or three things went wrong at once to cause this accident.
Edit to add, I looked at a lightweight Mark V with synthetic stock today, in .300 Winchester Mag. I still thought it was a pretty cool rifle.
Last edited by tex_n_cal; 10/17/09.
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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OP
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"He that hath an ear, let him hear � ."
"Good enough" isn't.
Always take your responsibilities seriously but never yourself.
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So is the nose job photo from the Weatherby accident or a domestic dispute? Looks like a bite more than an explosion/projectile thing.
Just curious.
In the land of the blind, the one eye is king.
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He that have eye let him see. LOL
It is better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6.
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He that hath brain, let him inquire so he might learn.
In the land of the blind, the one eye is king.
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You must be a preacher?LOL
It is better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6.
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Nah, just an inquisitive small but active mind.
In the land of the blind, the one eye is king.
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"The 375HH is the greatest level of power you can get for the investment in recoil." (JJHack) 79s and losttrail, biggest waste of air.
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The design is not new but borrowed from artillary canons.
It is better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6.
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I already have a lot more, very reliable, very scary information that I can not divulge without betraying sworn confidences. I'll tell whatever I can � later � if I can do so without betraying confidences. That's why I have more reason than anybody else for wanting more input.
The unavoidable, undeniable general indications are two � some results of industry tests that I'm not supposed to know about �
� That some Mk V actions fail unpredictably (faulty manufacturing, not detectable before-hand).
� That some W'by factory ammo is 'way hotter than SAAMI specs.
(The key word is SOME, not ALL.)
Some of my information came from an anonymous source who wanted me to recommend a test lab for forensic examination of the failed rifle that horribly maimed and almost killed the shooter. I remember the details vividly but can not document 'em.
Some of my information came from the "shop" people who were loading W'by factory ammo on contract. They didn't appreciate the fact that their highly respected company's business people had signed a contract for loading drastically overly hot ammo.
Some of my information came from a good friend, ballistics tech at one of the SAAMI companies, whose job it was at the time to pressure-test (with modern test equipment) every brand and caliber and loading of ammo then being sold at retail in the U S. More than once, he mentioned the W'by ammo as being "worrisome," and finally gave me some hair-raising figures.
Some of my information came from a retired pilot, working as a range officer, who saw an apparently safe Mk V send zilch out the muzzle but nasty "shrapnel" into the shooter's eye.
It's damned uncomfortable to know what I know and to not be able to blaze it across the sky for all to see. (Even though I know that dyed-in-the-wool W'by-lovers could see it happen and still insist to themselves "That won't ever happen to me.")
Bottom line, FWIW � I'll never fire a Mk V with factory ammo and won't stand near anyone who's about to. One in a million � one in a billion � statistics don't mean much whnn that one is just a few inches from your face.
No, I've never seen one fail. Haven't seen all that many fired, for that matter, But when several people whom I know to be both knowledgeable and reliable relate essentially identical occurrences, I tend to accept what they're telling me as fact.
I've driven the major highways all over this continent for well over half a century without ever having a car catch fire. Does that fact guarantee that I never will have one catch fire? With all due respect Mr. Howell some of this sounds more "French Connection" then fact. We have anaoymous sources that had opportunities to report overloaded cartridges that could potentially takes somebody's life and nothing is done. Then we have a range officer stating catastrophic failure where bullet never came out of the barrel and shrapnel in the eye. Why did the failure occur? Was there a blockage in the barrel? Wrong shell put into the gun? There are threads here and other forums showing failures in Brownings, Remingtons, Marlins etc which are from shooter error/blockages and not from action or design failure. Yes. I am a Weatherby fan. Shot 2 of mine yesterday with handloads on the measley 6 lug action. I just can not believe if this was happening as stated, nothing was done. Again, this is with all due respect to Ken Howell and not questioning creditability and will probably be lambasted for questioning this, but have a tough time on an internet thread defaming an American Gun Company without more facts.
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The New Logic �
"It hasn't happened to me,"** therefore
� It won't happen to me.
� It hasn't happened.
One premise, two conclusions! Impressive!
**alternate premise � "I haven't seen it happen." (same conclusions)
My birth was neither televised nor photographed. No one has yet produced details to confirm the event. No Campfire folk have seen me born. Scopes and Google can't confirm my birth. Therefore, I wasn't born, was I?
"Good enough" isn't.
Always take your responsibilities seriously but never yourself.
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