Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa Open sights on client DGR rifle- cosmetic or necessity?

Ray, the shallow V is the shape on the Ruger 375 Hawkeyes which makes them pretty fast. The 458 Lott Ruger needs a new front to work the same way but the rear is GTG from the factory.

Agree with Shakari on the fiberoptic sight's visibility, but in the world their fairly fragile. As long as it isn't broken at the wrong time and you're willing to replace it periodically - or protect it with a hood with side and top window cut-outs like the NECG - they're a pretty good idea.

They don't work if you put a hood on 'em as they gather the light and shine it back at you........ I keep a spare in that little spidertrap in the stock for emergencies and find that even with the rough treatment my rifle gets, I only have to change it about once every 2 or 3 years.

FWIW, when I'm doing a night time follow up, I tape a small surefire to the side of the barrel where I can flick the button with my thumb and also wear a headlamp that shines a bit of light onto the foresight with most of the light from that shining where I'm looking and it works a treat for me.

Also, FWIW, I also give my tracker my Surefire (blue light) Kroma which although helluva expensive, is worth it's weight in gold in these situations.

I don't use or favor hoods on FS either, but installed the one I described on my 1886 450 Alaskan, because I'd seen the fiberoptic FS on a friend's Win Mod. 71 break in the bush. The window cut outs on the side and top of the hood do let in a lot of light. But I'm not trying to stir up controversy about a peripheral issue and recognize that YMMV.

In the spirit of when in Rome: I drilled and tapped and screwed down the two long distance folding leafs on my CZ 550 Magnum .416 Rigby, just like the African pros recommend.

I did a very clever thing when I bought my DG rifle, I bought two. An option the low cost of the CZ made possible. I did give one to my most generous hunting partner, Andy Barnes of Burns, OR. But, unless he is going with me, I know I can use both rifles, and his we only shoot with the irons.

Now - can anyone tell me where I can find a Quick Detachable scope ring that fits the CZ's scope grooves?

Sisky,

Warne makes their Maxima QD "Grooved Receiver Line" amongst other rifle types for the CZ.

http://www.warnescopemounts.com/grooved_receiver_line.html

Good stuff.

My flip up leaves are stiff to move so I don't D&T them down..

Also,I do sight each one of them in at specific yardage and I use them as such..I have them sighted in at 100, 200 and 300, if I have a 4th option I sight them in a 50,100,200,and 300..This works much better for me. Not many folks do this anymore, prefering to sight the rifle in x inches high at 100 and just use the one sight. I did that for years, but I prefer to have each sight sighted in at a specific range today..Both methods work, but I think eveyone owes it to themselves to try both methods before they make a decision.

Ray and all, I appreciate the nostalgia associated with iron/express sights. I really like them, too. But swing them like a shotgun and not really see the sights? I want iron sights and not optics if a wounded animal if it goes into a dark hole?

Did you guys tell this to the marines? I have a young, former marine working for me that did a couple of tours recently and hunted "dangers game" in some very dark holes. Optics rule on those hunts. Iron sights were considered to be a huge handicap. He's a good kid that came out "stacked" and wounded.

Also don't tell the marines that their push feeds are inferior to CRF's.

Anyway, fun dicussion.

josh

Recknegel makes and NECG sells a hood for fibre optic front sights which is a frame with large wholes or windows in it to allow in the light nessecary for the fibre optic front beads.

Best of both worlds, protection and light. Same hood works well for a properly filed front brass or platinum bead as well.

Sharpsshooter,

Irons are best for eles and for other really close encounters. If your rifle fits, you will see the front bead when you mount the rifle. Put the bead where you want the bullet to go. Very simple, very fast - but your rifle must fit.

When was the last time an M-16 was fit to the shooter, eh?

JPK

Thank you for the info on the Warne Rings - they were not available the first time I bought rings for the CZ.

The Warne QDs work quite well. I just did some re0shuffling of scopes today, including mounting a 1-4x on Warne QDs on a CZ 550 FS 9.3x62. A nice compact combo.

That's very interesting Ray. LAPD found that the biggest factor in winning a gun fight is to raise the pistol to eye level, ignore the rear sight, and focus on the front sight only. Even at ranges measured in feet. Sounds alot like what you are saying.
I'm going to try practicing shooting quickly at 25 yds. as well as 50 yds. like I do now with my rifles. Especially my iron sighted ones.
One of my choices for a close cover elk rifle is a very large white bead front sight that can be replaced if it gets broken. Got the idea from the .375 Rugers I've played with and from recalling Francis E Sell's experiences with his iron sighted lever guns in his dark Oregon forests.
I'm opting for a ghost ring rear sight. But I will keep my options open. My eyes aren't opposed to a good wide "V" out there on the barrel. We'll see.
I'm also going to look for an oportunity to play with a wide "V" rear and prominent front sight combination as well. who knows where I'll wind up.
Thanks for your's and everybody else's comments. E

Iccidentally I have altered the rear sight on my 9mm Pistol this way:



Drill from holster, target at 15 feet:

double tap center mass and monitor (Mozambique) one shot, carefully aimed.

Rapid aquisition for the double tap - the rear sight is ignored (washes out) completely. For the third it can be used for more precise indexing.

Shot out to 25 meters - as precise as I can hold.
Shot out fast in close in bad light - just front sight surprise.

Works.

the sight I described used by the Texas Rangers is very much what CMG has posted other than its not flat on the bottom..it is as fast as any sightt can possibly be..I have that old gun of my granddads for years and it is awesome.

I think you guys that are interested will find that instinctive or simi instinctive shooting is easier than some of you might think and is very accurate for most folks, it does require a little practice to get really good at it and some to stay good at it..At one time I could bust going away clays with a fair amount of regularity with my double 450-400. I guess about 3 out of 5 or better on a good day, and those I missed were very close I would bet. I think its saved my bacon a couple of times.

I've seen alot of guys that couldn't hit 3 out of 5 going away clays with a shotgun. That you could do it with a rifle is impressive!

doubletap,
Practice, practice, practice, I can't do it today or the last time I tried I couldn't, I don't practice these days like I used to..but I could probably get one out of 5 still..I think I will go try and see how I do...It is best to start on a 25 yard target and get that down pat, they go to the clays and its a lot easier..

I have the white, hooded NECG on my new .458 and am going to install a ghost ring at the rear.

I have removed a 1.5 Leupy on my Mod 70 on a follow up, but I cut my teeth on irons and practiced extensively with the .375's irons at 25 yds before I went on the hunt. I am certain that I will be quicker up close with irons, because I have field loss due to no vision in my right eye and the scope blocks a lot of the remaining field, even though it's a skinny Leupold 1.5-5. Irons up close for me, no doubt.

I haven`t been to Africa yet, so I`m no expert. But I have seen alot of caped buff hunts on TV and article pics. Most of the rifles that I see used for caped buffs have scopes on them.

Also, any shots imo, say beyond 50-60 yards, you`d want a scope for the best possible and very important 1st shot placement.

I also notice the trackers carrying back up rifles without scopes just in case of a charging emergency. So on any guided hunt, there is usually plenty of back up.

I`d put a scope on your 416, periodically do some quick target acquisition freehand practicing, and have a good time in Africa.

If one is more comfortable with a scope then I agree with bigsqueeze that your scoped rifle will work 95% of the time, but IF one goes into the high grass or the really thick mopane then you are 110% better of with irons if you can shoot them..In the high grass what you may see is a head five feet off your gun barrel blowing blood all over hell..one needs to be very quick and very accurate. I have only seen this on one show on TV as Bigsqueeze refers to and that was with Johan Calitz and he got knocked on his butt...I also have been pushed around a bit, so I am sot in my ways on this subject and others when it comes to my survival!! and all the back up in the world may or may not work in these up close situations...

The important thing is to have the iron sights on the gun then if you ever need them they are there, why in the hell would one do otherwise is beyond me, they don't cost that much....oh yeah, and take the time to sight them in at 50 yards.

I realize that scope bases can interfere with your iron sights in some cases but any good gunsmith can remedy this situation..I took and end mill and cut a lengthwise grove through my Talleys, and then you have Talbott QDs, Griffen and Howe side mounts and the great claw mounts..The options are out there if you want to spend the money and if your on a $20,000 to $100,000, a set of even expensive scope mounts should not be a problem..

You also have the options of slipping on a Talley peep sight on the rear scope base and they work great at $65.00..carry it in your cartridge belt, its fast and accurate.

I've not done dangersous game, but have a 2.5 X scout scope on my dark timber 45-70 elk.moose unit. I too see no issues with scopes with that level of magnification. They are close enough to what we typically see that the off side eye is still able to track and deliver info on the surroundings well out of the scopes field of view. In the grass and at ranges inside of 25 yards, I'd likely not bother with sight pictures anyway, and be shooting mostly on instinct. That's where a lot practice with pointing exercises would come into play. I think you're good to go.

Try this: Mount your rifle (empty of course) and point it at a painting, photo, tv mounted on a wall at eye level of higher (as one would when attempting to shoot an elephant), keep both eyes open. Then note how large the area is that is obscured by the scope. For a righty, the area ia ahead and to the right of the scope. The area is triangle in shape and grows as distance increases.

At five or ten yards it is more than large enough to hide an elephant. A short eye relief scope makes a larger blind spot than a long eye relief scope, both both are too large.

As far as elephants and visibility, you will be shocked, when you go to Africa, at how well elephants blend into even thin jess that all leaves have fallen from, let alone how hard they are to see in heavy still-in-leaf cover.

And with elephants, a lot of trouble doesn't come from the one you see, but its unseen mate.

And Ray is 100% right regarding counting on backup. Whoever that backup may be, he may or may not have the opportunity to save your bacon, and if he does, he may not be up to the task, oe maybe is just having an off day when he misses and you become strawbeery jam as an elephant gores you and then crushes you, or a shadow of yourself as a buff hooks and disembowels you or a chew toy for leo or chiue.

JPK