Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Bowhunting Cut on contact or not?

I am shooting both right now, 335 grain and 440 grain.

The 335 at 290fps is 13.8 lbs of force
The 440 at 240fps is 15.0 lbs of force

only 1.2 lbs difference in force.

However, the weight never changes but the velocity drops. The velocity also sheds faster from a lighter object. Out to 25-30 yards I do not see any advantages. However I have seen two drastic differences when shooting further then this. The trajectory between 25 and 50 is really flat with the faster arrow, but the heavier arrows really drives more deeply into my 3D targets.

On deer I would not hesitate to use the lighter faster arrows all the time. For Elk, I would prefer the heavy arrows for most hunting situations. For pigs the heavy arrows, unless hunting over a feeder from a stand. Those close shots would be good with the lighter arrows. Actually anything under 30 yards should be just fine with the lighter arrows because the momentum is simply not enough different between them.

At further ranges the accuracy becomes more challenging with heavy arrows. Because of the greater arch in trajectory. Putting a lighter arrow with a bit easier aiming due to the much flatter trajectory into the lungs even with reduced momentum will still be better then a bad shot with a heavy arrow.

I hear somewhat frequently about punching through bone. If bones are a regular problem for the hunter, then maybe shooting better, or anatomy classes are a better use of time, then the type of equipment used. I know it can happen, but so much time is spent on equipment instead of education and practice. Almost as if we can purchase our way out of problem or risk. Way too many guys take shots that are not right because they fear it being the only chance they may get.

We all make mistakes, have an animal jump the string, or a breeze, twig, or whatever makes a less then perfect shot. Distance is without a doubt the greatest contributor to this.

I love heavy arrows when they drive so deep and even exit an elk. But the faster ones are so much more entertaining to shoot and will whistle through anything smaller then elk as far as you can hunt them. Bones are a wild card. I would not choose a broadhead based on the rare or odd chance of hitting bone. I choose them based on what shoots best, and several other factors. I will continue to study and memorize anatomical locations of bones under the skin. That solves the entire debate over COC or Chisel.

Thanks for taking the time to put this reply together.

After looking at the pics, I would say youre overly worried.The tip isn't really bent that bad.I've seen tips shaped like a J after hitting bone.And the bleeder bending probably aided penetration.The old Bear Razorheads were designed for the bleeders to bend or even snap off if bone was hit.If the Stingers have worked fine for you to this point, I would keep using them.Hitting solid bone can booger up any head.Heck, if you mailed that one back to Magnus, they'd replace it for free.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpHpVR5SUX8

This is where the 3 lbs vs 32 lbs (both a little high) of pressure to penetrate an elk hide started.Its hardly scientific, but interesting nonetheless.

It's an interesting video and probably would convince a lot of people to the numbers.

Unfortunately it's not real to use leather VS raw soft warm skin. It is a great comparison from one to another. Sharp cut on contacts are all about the same for the kinds of penetration they offer, but chisel points can vary from sharp as a nail, to about as sharp and a Cut on contact.

Just remember the velocity that the point hits the skin is quite different as well. Push something through is far different them slamming it through. Imagine putting the force of a hammer on a nail softly and setting it there, VS using the same amount of force but hitting it by swinging the hammer.

The two are not anything remotely close! There is no strike force or momentum with the test he showed, it was just simple slowly applied pressure.

I agree, like I said its not all that scientific of a test, just an example of where people get numbers.

Having said that, I know from personal experience that a 2 blade COC will consistently outpenetrate any other head when shot form a slower bow,ie a recurve.I still have no problem using a Thunderhead or Muzzy however.Compounds,shoot whatever as long as its sharp, you're going to get adequate penetration on deer.

Penetration really isn't a byproduct of COC vs. chisel point. It is a product of arrow diameter vs. tip diameter. More blades = more drag in the animal and less penetration. That is fact, but you won't get near the blood trail or trauma with a 2 blade that you will a 3 or 4 blade. For example, I used to shoot those little bitty Beeman arrows that were about 17 caliber in diameter. I shot a 400 grain arrow at 275 fps. which was VERY fast for that time. My foam target had no problem stopping arrows shot over 300 fps. Most of the time the arrows wouldn't even be sticking out the back side of the target. I was shooting 100 grain Thunderheads at the time. I couldn't keep those beeman arrows in the target. They would go completely through the target...fletching and all and stick in the trees 20 yards behind my target. I don't mean just barely sticking in them either. I had to cut big chunks out of the trees in order to get my broadheads back. This is when I actually started working on engineering the broadhead extractor I invented. I wanted a simpler, easier way to get broadheads out of trees intact. In my case, the head diameter was larger than the arrow by nearly double, so the arrow shaft wasn't really touching anything as it whistled through the target. It was pretty amazing. I would switch back and forth between a larger diameter arrow and a beeman and got complete opposite results with the wider arrow. The larger diameter arrows would go into the target 14"-18". I had the same results with COC and chisel points. The point shape made no difference at all.

Your broadhead set up is fine. The tip may have hit a rock or something after going through the deer as well. I wouldn't worry about it at all, but I would definitely give the Slick Tricks a try. They are an awesome head. Flinch