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Campfire Outfitter
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Geneva Convention asside, IMHO the only reason Sierra doesn't market SMK's like Berger does, is that they sell far more bullets to Uncle Sam than anyone else. I would sure not jepordise
that money by giving the bleeding hearts something to cry about. Exploding sod poodles are graphic enough, even though Taliban and Al Queida's would be so much more productive! +1 dave
![[Linked Image]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Logo_Schmidt_%26_Bender.jpg) Only accurate rifles are interesting.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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They are infact very simular in performance I disagree with this, the 3 bullets in this link are not similar ("simular")in performance, they are very much different. Several years ago I had a custom 6mm-284 built with a 1-8" twist, my problem came in with my barrel selection, my gunsmith at the time talked me into trying a POS 3-groove Pac-Nor. I had these 3 bullets to do load developement with. The 105gr A-Max was a complete failure as I never even had one bullet make it to target. the 105gr VLD Berger was my bullet of choice up to the 600 round mark then they started to blow-up also. the jacket of the 107gr SMK is much more robust but will still open up on game, I never had a bullet failure with the SMK but the accuracy tapered off as the barrel ended its pitiful existance. B btw I agree with rost495 about the .338 300gr SMK awesome bullet
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Joined: Feb 2001
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Campfire Outfitter
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a POS 3-groove Pac-Nor. ....accuracy tapered off as the barrel ended its pitiful existance.
B
????????????????????????????????????????????? dave
Only accurate rifles are interesting.
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Joined: Mar 2004
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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LOL! I think it was the cartridge/twist combination that was the POS in that case!
Islam is a terrorist organization.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Bergers, SMK's and AMAX's do not offer the same kind of wound path as illustrated below between a 168gr SMK and a 168gr AMAX (photo from Dr. Roberts)- ![[Linked Image]](http://i744.photobucket.com/albums/xx87/Vereor1/SMKvsTAP.jpg) Notice the difference in Neck Length (the distance from initial entry until bullet upset begins). Also this photo shows what usually happens with SMK's. Unfortunately they exhibit a higher degree of inconsistent performance then most. The wound path of Bergers would generally resemble the one from the SMK except that instead of the base of the bullet penetrating further the the Max TC, the entire projectile fragments creating a very large, medium depth cavity. Like the AMAX they are very consistent in performance.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Formidilosus
Dont have a pic like that for the Berger?
dave
Only accurate rifles are interesting.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
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If he doesn't, you can send me your regular e-mail and I can provide a photo of a Berger VLD wound channel profiled in a wax bullet-test media. It looks a lot like the SMK's.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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a POS 3-groove Pac-Nor. ....accuracy tapered off as the barrel ended its pitiful existance.
B
????????????????????????????????????????????? dave Yep, gotta be a combo as I run 3 groove 224 PN barrels on purpose and they are better at doing what I want done than a 4 groove Krieger is.... I did have a 4 groove Krieger toast a bunch of 64 bergers, but that was due to Berger 64s having to thin of a jacket. I know that I prefer to discuss all aspects of something with a bunch of folks before I do something, IE decide the projectile first, then come up with the best cartridge, then the barrel twist etc... and then come up with a chamber for that one... and I"m not talking wildcat rounds either. From what I"ve shot, the bergers and smks have been just fine, though I'll happily admit they've both been head only rounds, the amaxes have been less frangible on same head shots. The SMKs so far have been both the most and least damage, and by that on a head shot they'll take ears off deer literally, yet I've seen the same ones run through ribs(not by me) and it looks like a soft point. Deer buck and run a bit. Blood trail. Caliber or so entry, silver dollar or less exit. Jeff
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Mar 2004
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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You can't generalize the performance of bullets from one caliber to another. A .30 AMAX (or whatever) may/may not = an AMAX of any other caliber.
Islam is a terrorist organization.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Thats the problem with "understanding" vs having actually shot the SMKs at animals.... Nope I haven't, which is why I phrased it that way. The Berger VLD really intrigues me for long range hunting, but I've always been satisfied enough to hunt with bullets designed and marketed for hunting so I haven't seen the need... yet...
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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SMK is not a hunting bullet,
why the comparation?
GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats
-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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Campfire Outfitter
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SMK is not a hunting bullet,
why the comparation?
GTC You can say that all you want but the fact of the matter is that the VLD is a late commer to the long range hunting market.....By several decades. dave
Only accurate rifles are interesting.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
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SMK is not a hunting bullet,
why the comparation?
GTC There are a lot of dead animals fromt the SMK and a lot of the Long range comunity use them
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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When the company that makes them says they are not for hunting, that ends the "discussion" right there.
My information is that the Match King has a a history of tumbling due to much of it's weight being located in it's butt. That and it needs at least 2300 fps. impact speed to expand properly. I got that information from the makers.
We have all sorts of other sexy, high BC bullets that work better on game. E
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Who said we believe everything Sierra publishes... lots of that is CYA lawyer stuff... I don't even believe everything out of Kevin Thomas mouth and I know him a bit and have shot with him a bit and is a fine gentleman.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Campfire Outfitter
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When the company that makes them says they are not for hunting, that ends the "discussion" right there.
My information is that the Match King has a a history of tumbling due to much of it's weight being located in it's butt. That and it needs at least 2300 fps. impact speed to expand properly. I got that information from the makers.
We have all sorts of other sexy, high BC bullets that work better on game. E
The Berger VLD also has a lot of its weight in the butt. I shot a coyote with a 100gr .257 MK that was traveling a hair over 1600fps at impact, and it left a 3" exit hole. I don't buy the 2300fps minimum velocity for expansion...
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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With all the great hunting bullets out there today, I don't know why someone would insist on using a target bullet for hunting big game.
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Campfire Tracker
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Formidilosus
Dont have a pic like that for the Berger?
dave I do not, sorry. However, JB is correct. As I said it looks a lot like the SMK except that they generally completely fragment.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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With all the great hunting bullets out there today, I don't know why someone would insist on using a target bullet for hunting big game. It depends on what one is trying to do. In any case some, such as myself, prefer the terminal ballistics of some match bullets to conventional bullets.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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When the company that makes them says they are not for hunting, that ends the "discussion" right there.
My information is that the Match King has a a history of tumbling due to much of it's weight being located in it's butt. That and it needs at least 2300 fps. impact speed to expand properly. I got that information from the makers.
We have all sorts of other sexy, high BC bullets that work better on game. E
E, You are obviously as ignorant about ballistic issues as optical issues...humorous post though 
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