Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 9 x 57???

My neighbor just inherited a very beautiful German mauser in 9x57.

I knew the gun but not the caliber, can anyone help me with that? Besides Cartridges of the World, anyone using this or especially loading for it? Where can I find components?

It's a 9mm --.356 -- version of the 7x57 and 8x57 Mausers. Dies are available at Buffalo Arms and brass at Midway, among other places. While they are stated as .356 diameter rather than .358, I have no problem shooting .358 cup and core bullets in my 1908 9x57 Mauser. But you can buy .356 bullets, too, if you really need to.

I bump 8x57 cases, mostly because if I bumped 9.3x57 cases down to it I would become confused sooner or later, as I have a Husqvarna 9.3x57 too, and Norma brass is available. I do have a box or two of the "new" 9x57 brass, but with the vast amount of 8x57 brass out there, there is no reason to go any other direction.

Wonderful rifles and cartridges, if little-known here.

Dennis

An article from African Hunter magazine:

The 9x57 Mauser

The 9mm Mauser is one of a number of cartridges based upon the old German infantry round, the 8x57mm adopted in 1888. A popular sporting cartridge in itself, the 8x57 spawned a number of others as cartridge designers busily necked it up and down to accept different calibre bullets. Most of these fell by the wayside, or at best achieved a moderate popularity. One version, which did achieve popularity, was the 9x57mm sporting round. For those of you who may be confused, 9mm refers to the calibre and the 57mm designation is indicative of the length of the cartridge case. This turned out to be an exceptionally well balanced and effective sporting round, and became one of the more widely used medium bores in Africa during the pre-World War II era.

It is one of those splendid calibres which just plain worked, without being possessed of spectacular velocities, or bone-jarring recoil for that matter. None of the old time hunter/writers of that era waxed particularly lyrical in its praise, but simply took it for granted that it would do its job effectively and with the minimum of fuss and bother. Fairly typical, were the comments made about it by John Taylor in, "African Rifles and Cartridges", where he does not have much to say about it bar "�I had a very nice little 9mm Mauser one time. I seldom used it other than for the pot, which it had no difficulty in keeping filled". It is not, and never was a heavy, dangerous game calibre, and those who tried to use it as such were asking for a sticky end, but nonetheless round-nosed solid ammunition was readily available for it. Many individuals used such bullets in their 9mm Mausers quite successfully on the big stuff with nary a hitch nor hiccup, but nonetheless such practices are not to be recommended! For any game animals up to but not including the thick-skinned, heavy animals the 9mm Mauser was wonderfully effective, proving yet again the effectiveness of larger calibre bullets of good sectional density at moderate speed.

The ballistics of the 9mm Mauser are somewhat confusing, as there were a number of bullet weights available and two distinctly different load levels. Bullet weights available ranged from 205 grains up to 281 grains, but the standard Kynoch loading (and the one which established this cartridge's reputation) was a 245-grain round-nosed bullet (available as a solid or a soft-nose) at 2150 feet per second. Other factory ammunition was loaded somewhat hotter, particularly the German DWM sporting ammunition, which offered a 247-grain bullet at an alleged 2310 feet per second. Under Zimbabwe's National Parks regulations the 9mm Mauser fits quite happily in the calibres suited for Class 'C' animals (general big game), which includes Kudu, Zebra, Sable, Waterbuck and the like.

As noted, popularity was very high in Africa as this calibre, as well as being effective, was available in the well-made and reasonably priced (and absolutely delightful) Mauser sporting rifles of the era. Popularity even spread across the Atlantic to America, where Winchester chambered the model 54 bolt-actioned rifles for it and most of the major ammunition companies loaded 9mm Mauser ammunition. Sadly, the 9mm Mauser did not really catch on in the States. The American gun buying public have always been highly suspicious of any calibre with the dreaded millimetre designation attached to it, and I would not be surprised if the Americans were going through one of their periodic high velocity and long-range phases at about this time. If they were, the moderate speeds of the 9mm Mauser would doubtless fail to excite them in any way. Whatever the reason, it failed to prosper. A few (a very few) Model 70 Winchesters were made for the 9mm Mauser in 1937, using leftover Model 54 barrels and probably as a special order item only. It then sadly expired as far as the Americans were concerned. Incidentally, if you show a Winchester model 70 in 9mm Mauser calibre (in good, original condition of course) to a serious pre '64 Model 70 collector, best make sure that he's sitting down first, he may hurt himself when he falls over. When he picks himself back up again, prepare to have ever-increasing quantities of money offered to you for it (or to be seized by the throat until you agree to give it to him)! The 9mm Mauser is one of the rarest of all the pre-'64 Winchester variants.

What of modern-day use? Unfortunately, the years have not been kind to the 9mm Mauser. After World War II, the Mauser factory was in ruins and the last thing on anyone's mind was sporting rifles and calibres. As Europe settled down, various calibres were resurrected for continued sporting use, but the 9mm was not among them. Factories continued to make ammunition for the many rifles still in use, but no new rifles were made and it was only a matter of time before the 9mm Mauser slipped into obscurity. Newer, faster and generally more gee-whiz calibres were being brought out to tempt the buyer, and whereas some old classic calibres have been re-introduced in the States, it seems no one is about to repeat the unhappy pre-war American experience with the 9mm. They tried it once, it didn't work out so they're not going to try it again! Craig Boddington, in his excellent book "Safari Rifles", sums the current position up most aptly when he states, concerning the various 9mm's, 'Of them, the 9x57 Mauser enjoyed a degree of popularity, even in America. Although the bore diameter has potential, the European cartridges had generally low velocity�No 9mm rifle cartridges are currently listed by RWS. Rather than spend more time on them, let's turn to some metrics that still have real importance in African hunting".

The calibre is, of course, as effective as it ever was, but it just doesn't feature anymore. This is a pity. Modern powders and cases should make it easy to boost velocities and power levels significantly. Loading up to the aforementioned DWM specifications with a more aerodynamic spitzer or spire-point projectile would flatten trajectories, too. However, consider that with a 100 yd. zero, the original bullet will drop about 9 inches at 200 yards, which is better than most would think (and is as far away as most of us should ever consider shooting). At DWM speeds with a spire-point bullet, we're now looking at a six-inch drop at the same range, so one can see that the 9mm is more than adequate at all practical ranges. You can get out of your head the notion that it's only good for bowling-alley distances. It's a funny thing, but all those I have spoken to who have ever used the 9mm Mauser for hunting (and some who still do) are all highly enthusiastic and voluble as to its effectiveness. All are agreed that it is splendid for hunting, none have a bad word to say about it, and to a man they bemoan the difficulties they experience in obtaining ammunition (although it has to be said that one particularly enthusiastic user's experiences as to the singularly devastating effects of his rifle were largely due to the fact that his bullets were travelling virtually sideways upon striking his game, due to a severely eroded bore)!

You aren't going to buy any currently manufactured rifles in 9mm Mauser, and neither are you going to stroll into your average neighborhood gun shop and be able to buy any ammunition. Nonetheless, there are a number of perfectly good rifles still floating about, and what's a fellow to do if one wishes to shoot a cherished old heirloom in this calibre? Never fear, all is not lost. Reloading dies are available, and readily obtainable 8x57 Mauser brass is easily expanded or fire-formed into 9mm. The correct bullet diametre is .356", whereas American bullets are .358". However, American bullets can be swaged down (or put on a centreless grinder) and thus made to work. Before doing this, I would slug the bore of my particular rifle to find out the exact groove measurement, as a lot of these older rifles can vary considerably in their bore dimensions. You may well find that .358" bullets can be used as is. You may equally find that further reduction is necessary, however! Another option is Stewart's Bullets in South Africa, who will custom-make bullets of whatever size you need. I would stick to round-nosed bullets in the 250-grain range at the original 2150 feet per second, particularly if using open sights. If your rifle is 'scope or peep sighted, feel free to experiment with pointy bullets at higher velocity. Just go carefully, and don't over-strain a fine old rifle (or yourself, for that matter). It isn't a magnum, so don't try and turn it into one! I have seen some of the old Kynoch 9mm Mauser ammunition in this part of the world. Beware. It is now extremely old, and primers may well not go off. Furthermore, the primers are more than likely corrosive. I would use it as a source of components only. This, of course, does not apply to the new Kynoch ammunition, which is first class in every way. However, the new Kynoch catalogue makes no mention of 9mm Mauser ammunition.

I have before me a fairly typical and utterly delightful Mauser rifle in 9mm calibre. It is an A-grade, meaning that it is of a style designed to appeal most to the British tastes and market (and is my favourite Mauser sporter style). It has a 24" barrel, with shallow 'V' rearsight and bead foresight mounted on a chequered ramp, a style I find far easier to use than the normal old European deep-V and barleycorn arrangement. Additional folding leaves upon the rearsight block go up to 500 metres. The forward sling swivel is mounted upon a barrel band in front of the fore-end, a style sure to delight the hearts of purists. The action is, of course, the marvellous Model 98, and is of commercial Obendorf Mauser manufacture with the top of the forward receiver ring finely chequered so as to avoid glare (and look darned good to boot). The magazine box is equipped with a side-swinging release lever, a style I am highly enamoured with, which combines rigid locking, ease of release and fine appearance. The stock is of classic design, of course, with a modest cheekpiece and extensive hand-cut chequering. The fore-end has an ebony tip (minus white-line spacer, I'm glad to say) and the buttplate is black Bakelite with the Mauser logo moulded in. The comb of the stock is supremely comfortable for use with the iron sights, and the entire rifle as a whole certainly comes out as more than the mere sum of its parts. The balance is impeccable. It begs to be handled, to be put up in the shoulder and aimed with, and then having wormed its way into the heart, one cannot but yearn to shoot with it. From there, the progression is entirely natural; what would it be like to hunt with? I'll bet it carries nicely in the field, just the ticket for typical bushveldt hunting conditions. That big, long bullet wouldn't half be effective on game�. before you know it, you're arranging a 'classic' hunt with some friends old rifles only, no 'scopes allowed, that sort of thing.

I very much doubt we'll ever be seeing the 9mm Mauser back again as a viable, commercial entity. However, I hope this encourages those of you who may have one of these fine old rifles to use it again. Make the effort to assemble some ammunition. Shoot with it. Hunt with it. Disregard the temptation to have it re-barreled to some other more easily obtainable calibre, especially if the bore is still decent. Ignore the seductive siren songs of the new, blistering, high-speed magnum cartridges with long-range performance figures you don't need and will never use. I note with dismay that the American market is once again obsessed with Magnumitis II, if you thought the currently extant group of magnums were powerful, wait and see what the latest crop has to offer! (we won't mention heavy recoil, ear-splitting muzzle blast, poor barrel life; bullet failure and meat loss�mustn't be spiteful, must we�). Ignore the current fads, and give the old timer a chance again. The 9mm Mauser hasn�t 'gone off' or anything over the years, and is of course as good as it ever was. Just because up-to-the-minute hunters are using new wonder-magnums, it doesn't mean the game is now somehow tougher or is going around in bulletproof vests. The 9mm Mauser is quite capable of getting the job done, and doing so with such a classic will, I like to think, give an added measure of satisfaction.

----------------




Cheers!
-Bob F.

Nice summary.

wooof! thanks!

The 9x57 Mauser

Iambrb,

I just happen to have an extra set of RCBS 9x57 dies, if you need them.

GH

iambrb,

If you would like a pdf file of the article about the 9x57 that I posted then you can download it here:

http://www.bunduki.com/bob/magazine/AH-the9x57Mauser-Perspectives.pdf

You might also enjoy this article about the .318 Westley Richards:

http://www.bunduki.com/bob/magazine/AH-the318WestleyRichards-Perspectives.pdf


How the 9x57 Mauser compares to some other cartridges:



I don't own a 9x57 nor have I ever fired one but, IMHO, there's not a dang thing wrong with the 9x57 Mauser! Look how well it compares to the .358 Winchester and the .35 Whelen for example.

(I do own a .35 Whelen, a 9.3x57, and a 9.3x62.)

Cheers!
-Bob F.

That x57 case has several direct corallaries with cartridges based on the .308 case.....6mm Remington/.243 winchester,6.5x57/.260 Remington,7x57/7mm08,9x57/.358 Winchester.There are also cartridges which kind of bracket each other as in 8x57(.323)/.308 Wichester(.308)/.338 Federal,and as you can see by the chart 9x57/.358 Winchester/9.3x57.The .257 Roberts is also based on the x57 case.
Depending on the specific action and OAL with a specific bullet the x57 cartridges may work in some short action receivers,though historically they have been chambered in long actions ,especially with heavier and therefore longer bullets.
I've found that I can generally squeeze just a bit more performance out of the x57 case than out of the .308 case,everything else being equal.From a strictly practical point of view either cartridge throwing the same bullet are ballistic equals.
If brass is a problem,a fairly knowledgeable handloader can make any of them from 30.06,.270,.280 etc.
My experience has been that I generally get the best performance out of the various x57 (also often called Mauser) cartridges with the heavier bullets for caliber.
The 9x57 is about the only one I don't personally own,but used to hunt with a fellow who had two of them.He loaded both of his with .358 bullets and had very satisfactory results on deer and black bear.He used to shoot the heavier .357 magnum bullets,which he bought comparitively inexpensively in bulk, for practice.

yes I do and PM inbound!

Take some pictures of your neighbor's 9x57, and post there here for us to see, please? I searched through my photos and apparently have none of my 9x57, so I shall go forth today and take some -- just for this thread .

Dennis

Dang, you guys are really pushing me into buying a
9x57MM.

I pulled mine out and took some pics just for this event...



And I have 11 boxes of this ammo -- ten of them because of my good friend GH... .



I really do like this rifle and ammunition...I need to make a "matching" modern custom to hunt with...maybe stainless/laminated... .

Dennis

Now I'm even more jealous!!!!

Thanks for posting the pics. That's a beautiful rifle!!

Cheers!
-Bob F.

Dennis,

Thanks for posting a pic of that rifle. It looks just like I thought it would....

I have a Remington M-78 that has been rebarreled to 9x57. I carry it out to the swamp every year, but so far, have not been blessed with a fair shot. It has peep sight installed. And yes, I'm shooting the original Kynoch ammo. I'll make it score one of these years...

Grasshopper

Like that's a bad thing???

-Bob F.

That is a beautiful rifle, Dennis! Hopefully I'll be down your way, this spring; look forward to a visit.

We have some projects coming up in Sitka, Angoon, and Wrangell, that I hope to get on. Won't be a thing to pop in to K.

Jeff

Glad all of you like the pics...it was fun to pull it out and take them.

Thanks...

Dennis

Really nice rifle, I have seen it's twin in 8 x 57...beautiful.

Never posted a photo on here (haven't figured it out yet) but I have a couple of my 9x57 that I could email someone to get the job done if they were kind enough to see it through.

Dennis inspired me to pull out my 9X57 and post a couple of pics to add to this thread. Mine is a JP Sauer Mauser and you can see the rest. I shot a bear and a couple of deer with it when I was younger and it seemed all the uncles, cousins etc borrowed it from Grandpa when it was time to go moose or bear hunting. My aim is to bag another blackie with it before I can't see the express sights anymore...lol.