Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles RL 22 and temps

RL22 usually gives me the best accuracy & speed on load development day. If the loads were worked up in 40 degree weather then they are unsafe at 90 degrees. Accuracy remains the same but the velocity does not when the temperature changes. I personally do not like that.

So, I quit using it.

Interesting thread.


Speaking of cold weather shooting, I did notice a reasonably significant difference in my 400 yards groups when shooting loads worked up at 60 degrees and then then retested at -10
(RL17 and H4350).
POI was around 3-6" lower and accuracy wasn't quite as good.

FWIW(same range trips as above), I couldn't tell a difference in my 270WCF loaded with H4831sc. POI on the 400 yard gong was the same as much warmer days.

You guys already know this but it does make alot of sense to workup loads in 'hunting' temps.
30 degrees works for me and I wouldn't worry one bit about +400 yard shots at temps ranging from 0-60F.

I've used Reloder 22 and 19 since 1991. If they are temperature sensitive, I haven't noticed. I usually do my load development in late summer or fall. Sight the rifle in, and go hunting.

I chronograph when developing loads, and don't care later. I hunt in weather from 20C to -40C. I haven't really noticed that I have to aim differently because my bullet is 200fps slower because it is colder than when load was developed.

These powders are accurate, provide exceptional velocity and animals just die.

I recommend them highly.

this is why you should do a ladder testing of loads, when I really serious about load development. I load 10 shots up depending how big a case I am using I load each one .3 or .4 grains different, I then watch the chrono as I work up, I will often find where a cluster of charges are grouping the same. when I find this BINGO I pick something in the middle of that range. this way I have a load that will likely be less effected by temps and more forgiving.

I think its best to work loads up to be used in fall hunting when the temps are around 50 degrees or less as I think you get away from MOST of the temp stability swing.

another variable is how what are the load when they are fired, did they just come out of the car or have they been sitting out on the load bench for half an hour

I noticed a lot of this variation stuff back in the 80's with IMR4350,IMR4831,and 7828....760 was a big offender in the 375H&H.

What was curious about IMR 4831 is that velocity loss in cold temperatures was more marked and extreme in the 7 RM than it was in the 270 Winchester.7828 did better in the 7RM than the faster IMR4831.I began to suspect that the way th powders bulked up in te case had something to do with it,but really have no idea.

The one thing that I did learn from all this was that the smaller cases had more to lose than the larger one's did;and that smaller cases I had worked up super/duper loads for,that showed great promise as being close to larger cases in velocity,etc,ie and to be specific (at the risk of being flamed here, the 7/08 as one example)withered in velocity as the temps dropped....this is the big reason I am no fan of the smaller cartridges loaded to miracle velocities,and chasing the velocities of the larger cases in the smaller cases,proclaiming them "as good". The chronograph says this just does not work,especially in cold temps......YMMV...

The 30/06-based and standard magnum,ie 300 Win,7 RM, etc.,cartridges just gave more velocity to start with,and even though they lost velocity at cold temps, too,it was nothing like the losses I experienced with the smaller stuff....the larger cartridges of greater capacity just had more to give,and more left over even after cold temp velocity loss.

When a 7/08 or 7x57 is doing 2850 or so,I'm happy....when it gets down to 2600 I am not so happy.....when a 270 or 7 mag goes from 3100 to 3000,I figure there is just plenty of sauce left over Again YMMV....and I am not talking the difference between 80 dgrees and 40 degrees....I'm talking a lot colder than that,because I frequently hunt in temps well below 20,and sometimes a lot colder.

I shoot a lot of RL22, H4831,and H4350 throughout the year,summer to dead of winter in 270,7RM,and 30/06,temps to 0 at the coldest,mostly teens to mid 20's and above. I have used H4831 and RL22 in temps of 10-25 below zero,absolute temp, not wind chill.I don't doubt there is some loss of velocity,but it has not cost me anything yet.

My last Alberta whitetail buck was killed at 25 below zero with a 270 and a load of 60 gr RL22-130 Partition.Rifle, ammo, and me were plenty cold......there are benefits to having plenty of powder capacity.

Hell Bob, I'd a been happy with 2600 with 139's the other day...grin...

Going from upper 2600's to 2400 with a 139 is not acceptable though.

I will finish "plinkin" with my RL-19 loads and will work up an additional load with another, more temperature insensitive powder immediately.

There are plenty of suitable powders that will work well in a 7mm-08...

Greg: Sounds like it mighta fallen off the stool a bit,eh?.....

Maybe H4350 in the 7/08...no? I ran 19 myself in my 7/08 days......

Bob,

I thought it had to be the chrony but the 22RF and all my .223 stuff clocked right where it has been...

Thinking 4350 or Varget and probably drop down to 120's. H4350 has been good to me in the past.

Did you have anything "interesting" happen with R'19?

Greg, I used R19 in the 7x57 and the 7/08;velocities were good and accuracy excellent in both.....but I did lose vel as temps dropped. I got great results in the 30/06 as well,but in the end it has been H4350 for quite a few years now....same with heavy bullets in 375H&H.

But I have not run the smaller 7's in quite a few years now,having settled pretty much on the 270....heck I only have two hands!

AB2506 summed it up. Load it, shoot it and kill stuff. All this temp sensitive BS does is plant unneeded doubt. I developed my 200 gr Accubond load with RL-25 about 9 years ago in the middle of summer. I have used the load at hugely varying temps at hugely varying yardages. I think sometimes the uncomplicated gets that way fast. mtmuley

I took my Springfield out today and worked up a load w/ some old 200 gr Speer Semi-Spitzers and RL-22 that got me 2300 fps with a max load of 58 gr. Books list that as being around 2600 fps but it doesn't matter to me. Nothing at all alarming pressure-wise, and good groups from a reciever-sighted rifle (shot by a rank amateur) so I'm cool.

Was surprised by RL-17 though... got about 2650 fps from an over-max load w/ a 165 gr Speer Hot Core (they list BTSP but mine had a flat base). They list 56.5 gr for 2879 fps. Weird.

Doesn't matter though... those 200s look way too cool to pass 'em up!

Thanks for the discussion ya'll; have a great weekend!

A pair of 270's shooting 150gr bullets and RL22 lost ~100fps when shot in single digit weather compared to 80 degree weather. More importantly to me, my ES quadrupled in the cold weather.

Yes, ALL powders act differently in different cartridges, bullet weights, and temps. But some powders seem to be more temp sensitive than others, regardless of cartridge and load.


Casey

A good and interesting post Bob. Case capacity is something I'll have to keep in mind when considering temps and various powders........


Casey

Casey: I kinda figured, if I start with more,and lose a little,I still have "more" left over;which is frequently "more" than the smaller case had to start with...I am not too good at math.....

I agree with the chap who posted above with the RL25 load.....sometimes we worry too much.I just shoot these loads all winter long and hunt with them in the fall,and don't worry about it much unless I see something really screwy going on.

This continues to be an interesting thread.

All of the comments and opinions posted so far I agree with.

One observation though.

In regards to REL22, the two examples of velocity loss in cold weather as posted by Ol'Joe with the 6.5x55 (small case) and Bobski with the 338wm (large case) showed the larger case had a far greater drop in velocity - 180 fps difference. But, these tests were done 10 years apart.

BobinNH had cited an example of IMR4831 in the 7RM vs 270win doing the same thing. The larger case showed a lower drop in velocity vs the smaller case.

I'm not trying to start an argument or disagree with anyone, were having a friendly discussion around the Campfire on an iteresting sublect. OK?

alpinecreek nailed it with: All powders act differently .......

The one question I stated earlier and even 405wcf asked about was: What was the date of manufacter of the REL22 that was tested in other's findings?

I'm curious to find out if REL22 has changed.

fish head

One thing that I noticed when doing testing for these powders it that if you work up a load at say 70* in the summer and then you start testing it a different temperatures, you get ver slight variations down to about frezzing(32*). Any where below the frezzing point and I would get wild variations of sometimes more than 200fps at say 10*, However at temperatures above frezzing I would only get around maybe 30fps difference between say 70* and 40*.

Did anyone else find the same thing when doing testing?

heavywalker,

What powder? You left out an important part.

RL 19 showed the worst and RL22 was a little better but still bad

This was about 4-5 years ago we did testing with alot of powders IMR, H, and Alliant. What we basiclly found was that IMR was the worst Alliant had some powders that were good and some that were terrible, and H was the best by a mile as far as temp sensitivity. After the test we started changing all of our rifles over to shoot H powders. Since RL17 came out I have started loading it in some rifles and have found it to perform well in different temps.

I dont load my summer practice rounds as hot as my hunting loads, I drop down several grains, check for accuracy and just shoot, mostly talking magnums here, and hopefully you all know how HOT a barrel gets in warmer weather, My pet loads usually are a few grs over most manuals and give me very good accuracy at long range, and I just go back to them in fall for fine tuning, Getting in lots of practice is the key for me, getting trigger time, shooting field positions, yadda yadda, I have been testing loads as well, use Retumbo and H10000 in my main cold weather loads only because I sometimes get caught up in to much hype such as this, I know I could live with H4831sc and never look back, but what would I do with all the 19,22,25 and so forth, Reloading/shooting is a passion, and the time and money spent has been substantsial, but doing so is well worth the knowledge and confidence when it comes to pulling the trigger on an animal or target Yes I do believe the age of any powder can reflect a considerable velocity difference, long rant

heavywalker,

Did you test IMR4350? This is the powder of choice for my 06 with 165 grain bullets.

I'd be interested in hearing your results if it applies.

Thanks,

fish head