Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles RL 22 and temps

Yes we did test IMR4350 all the notes for this test are at my brothers house and I have not looked at them for a few years but IIRC IMR4350 gave variations of in the 100-150fps range when going form temps of around 70* to temperatures around 0*

We shot IMR4350 in a few of our rifles and ended up changing over to H4350 or some other H variant for those

FWIW after out testing we currently have no rifles that shoot IMR powders and about 20% still shoot Alliant (although that number is going up after RL17 and we will see what the rest of there powders bring) the rest of our rifles use H variety.

Agree with Heavywalker on the IMR 4350;we saw the same thing way back when,and started searching for other 30/06 powders as a result.

Not that the IMR series is not good....I still use the stuff,and if you are not dealing with really extreme temp swings, you'll be fine.These powders have been giving good service for decades.....heck even the old WW II surplus 4831 was an IMR powder.

But if you know you'll be using your 06 from summer temps right through hunting season in temps down to zero,etc.something like the Hogdon series may be the way to go.

Bob,

I agree with that if you are not in an area where there are wild temp swings IMR powders will be just fine.

heavywalker, Thanks for the response.

A little off topic but,

This past fall I finally found the magic load for my 06 with a classic load of 57.5 grains of IMR4350, Hornady 165 gr. BTSP seated .020 off the lands, WW cases, CCI primer and runout of .003 or less.

My 06 was my Dad's rifle he bought new in 1955. It's a commercial FN Mauser that was somewhat customized when new. I know the action was smoothed out, the headspace is near zero, but I'm not sure of what else was done to it. He paid $360.00 for it with a Lyman scope on it in 1955.

Over the years it's seen some abuse, the barrel is pitted from shooting corrosive primed ammo when I was a kid and not cleaning it properly. If you were to look at it today, you'd say no way will this gun shoot accurately. I've glass bedded it, done a trigger job, cleaned and polished the barrel, new recoil pad, refinished the stock and it now wears a new scope and it shoots great.

The last four shots from it at 263 yards (my zero point) grouped at 1.4 inches ctc. It was my final sight in right before hunting this fall.

It was the fist centerfire rifle I ever shot and I've put many, many rounds down the tube over the last fourty plus years. I've done lots of load testing for it and have had mixed results, but I'm reluctant to do more. I don't want too shoot out the original pitted barrel. I've tried H4350 in the past and I should give it another shot - so to speak.

My dad passed away over thirty years ago and everytime I shoot "his" rifle it brings back great memories and a sense of pride knowing that he's happy seeing me with his gun in hand. I've decided that for deer hunting it will be the only rifle I'll take afield for the rest of my life. It was the first big rifle I ever shot and I'd be happy if it were the last.

Just babbling,

fsh head

Cool story Fishhead I love the stories of guns like that. I have a few of them that are very special to me for other reasons.

Here is the deal with temp variations in powder. There are 2 ways to go about it. One is to eliminate powders that have extream temp variations the other is to learn and know what a powder will do and how it performs in certain envirnoments. If you know that your powder will loose 50fps between 70* and 40* then you can correct for that. The important factor is that for powders that it will act consistantly to certain environments. I decided that it was not worth it to me to learn how all the different powders acted in different temperatures/environment so I went with powders that react very little or not at all.

For you with a load as good as you have it may be worth it to you to figure all that stuff out for in that rifle.

heavywalker, good info, and I am well aware of what you are saying.

My concern with temps and powder issues are only with normal fall hunting ranges from say mid fifties to the upper teens. I do all of my load development and sighting in during cooler temps.

That's why I mentioned H4350 instead of IMR4350 for the 06. I can live with slight variations and I need to do my own testing to confirm. The fire is a great place for info to save some unecessary experimention.

fish head

If that is the case I think that H4350 will serve you best.

Just an aside....but the last few nights I've been leaving rifles and ammo in the garage to let them assume outside temps,and keeping them cold till I get to the range.Temps have been teens to low 20's.

Don't know whether it's coincidence or not,and I have not chronographed.....but across the board groups at 100 and 300 yards have not been up to par.Rifles that were throwing great groups with temps in the 30's-40's have sort of deteriorated a bit;in some cases a great deal......seen this before when it gets cold.

Could it be me? Sure, maybe, but I doubt it,with three or four rifles involved....Quien Sabe?

Anyone else notice this?

Bob,

Took a 7-08AI out the other day loaded with RL19 one of the few we still used this powder in. Temp was in the 20's and the rifle and ammo were the same. This rifle normally groups under 1/2" with this load. We shot it and groups at 100 were about 1.5" and groups at 200 were over 3". Set up the chorny and sure enough loads were shooting around 200fps slower than when the load was worked up. Shot some other loads out of other rifles using H powders and RL17 the same day and got the same results as when we had gotten before with accuracy and velocity.

That is one of the things that has turned me off of temp sensitive powders. Not only does the velocity vari but the accuarcy can go away real quick when your bullet is traveling down the tube 150+fps slower than when you worked up the load. One of the variables with temp sensitive powders is that you not only have to know what the velocity will do in different temps but also need to know what accuarcy is going to be at all the velocities you will get from the variable temp as well. It takes a damn good rifle to hold MOA accuarcy with a bullet throughout the entire spread of velocity that you might encounter when temps vary. I have some very accuarate rifles but I would guess that only a small percentage would hold accuarcy with velocities varying over 150fps.

What you and heavywalker found makes perfect sense. The drop in velocity is affecting barrel harmonics enough to change accuracy - in the same way as going up or down in powder charge.

This is what I have always thought was the cause. I figured it was akin to working up a load and varying powder charges sometimes groups are good thoughout the range of powder charges and sometimes there is a sweet spot where the rifle/load becomes accuarate, it is the rifles that have the sweet spot that would be most effected by the variation in velocity due to temp change.

heavywalker/fishhead: Exactly what I was getting at and thinking of....food for thought is that as temps drop, velocity goes down, indicating a drop in pressure and velocity(?). We are not building a big enough fire to cause the bullet to slug up into the bore adequately,causing a fall off in accuracy;kinda like using a reduced load....

Another thing is that EVERYTHING in the equation gets too sluggish;firing pin fall may not be what it is due to less spring tension,primers harder to ignite leading to insufficient ignition, etc......

I fired three rifle this afternoon at 300 yards;2 of the three that so far have behaved well shot terribly....the third did well.....I think it was an accident.....

Good thread fellas...

imr powders are more temp sensitive than rl not saying rl is good h powders that have the climate extreme logo and rl 17 and the four new powders from rl are your best bet . the new stuff is enginered to not be affected but most the older powders are affected not all but you have to do your homework because speed affects velocity. i have a friend that worked up a load in jan on a cold day for a 338 rem ultra and used it in august on a hot day to try to kill a big black bear at 350 yd . he missed and his bolt stuck so no second shot was possible . the powder was h4831 before h redesigned the powder

hows the leg brother

leg still sucks but getting better.

I haven't heard any shooting down there today, did ya run out of bullets?

no save some for you and tryn to nock the bottom uot of it

good hopefully next weekend I can get down there and use up the rest of those for ya.

you can start the load for jeff that powder near blew my gun up . got it figured out now 37grns is max i tryed 42 not good need to cony it and shoot groups at 100 need to get it done . 42 stanped the head stamp on the bolt and the primer fell out and stuck to the bolt not cool

A lot of work, but it makes me wonder whether a guy could come up with different loads to shoot in different temperatures with only the powder charge varying; the goal being a single POI (or very narrow range of points of impact) out to 300 or so?

In my mind its easier to just shoot temp insensative powders or rezero for different conditions, but given the direction of this thread and the many interesting observations I couldn't help but wonder...

Only a real rifle loony would so something like that though .