Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Ramshot TAC Disappointment

I'm trying to put a load together using Prvi 62 grain FMJ .224's in a .223 for my AR. I loaded 24 grains and was very disappointed. The accuracy was dismal and the load was anemic, it cycled, but weakly.


Ramshot's data seems to suck. In the 4.2 manual they do not list a 62 grain. They list (max loads with TAC) a 68 with 25.5 grains, and a 69 with 25.2 grains. In the following manual they list 24.1 grains for the 68 and 24.1 for the 69. Sound like some lawyer crap to me.

The 4.3 manual lists 24.5 grains max with a 62 grain Berger. 24 grains was weak with the Prvi and I don't expect much more with 24.5 grains. I have read of people using 26 grains with the 62 grain FMJ, which sounds more like it.

The thing is I have 8 pounds of this TAC crap and 1000 bullets, because it came so highly recommended, I need to get them to shoot. I'm thinking the manual is all screwed up.

From Steve's reloading pages(you must read the disclaimer, as always) TAC is listed with bullets 60-63 grs at 21.8-25.8 grs. What did the primers look like? Did the Brass get miked for expansion? Have you miked factory brass as a starting point? Seems like you've got room to grow if you check stuff. Checked other manuals? Good luck stevek(not associated w/Steve's reloading pages)

Given that they publish pressure readings with their load data, I'm guessing that that's what's determining the data, not a lawyer. Maybe try a different(hotter) primer? What velocity were you getting? Not sure how many fps anemic is. Have the Privi bullets worked well with other powders?

What sucks about Ramshots data? It's always been pretty accurate in every cartridge I've tried.

Jeff

Try 25 and 26 grains. Most Ramshot powder (and indeed any modern powder) tends to work better closer to maximum.

What I would guess is that due to the bullet pressures are lower than ideal.

I just loaded 25.5 grains. The original load was weak, cycled slow and didn't toss the brass far, just kind of fell out

This gun chucks brass when shooting M193 and cycles strong. I can't feel the cycle with M193, but I sure could with the load I tried. It was like I was on the edge of not fully cycling.

Tac has a burn speed between H335 and H4895. The max load for H335 is 26 grains. I feeling ok with this load. A round or two will tell. I've been loading for 32 years now, always have figured right.

Or, you could try good old 748.

I love the smell of burning cat piss in the morning

I wouldn't expect anything close to match accuracy from the privi bullets. They are barely ok for blasting ammo, and that is about it...so that could be most of your problem right there.

You might have a slow lot of TAC, but without some chrono data you are shooting in the dark...as one might say.

TAC works well with heavier match bullets like the 77 Sierra or 75 Hornady, giving good velocity numbers and match accuracy. Try one of those or a 69 and you should have better luck.

TC

I haven't been real impressed with TAC in .223 either. I heard how clean and accurate it is in other calibers, but just haven't seen it in .223. It's one of the dirtiest powders I've ever used in .223 and I don't get the accuracy out of it that I get with Re15, Varget, 748 or even WC844.

I think I'll run it through a 308 FAL.

In my 223/223AI I find TAC needing about .3 more to equal H335 in 40/50 gr. bullet weights.
My custom tubed 223AI with 40's and 50's did not shoot well with TAC and that was over the whole incremental load work up over a chronograph to as high a velocity as I felt comfortable.
X-terminator on the other hand shot tiny knots over the course of load work up and is one of the few cases I've seen such a drastic difference between powders. I say that knowing Mule Deer wrote once Tac and X-Terminator are so close that X-Terminator might just be a little faster burning lot of TAC.
TAC in my son's custom AR 15 shoots as good as my custom bolt guns. You can conjecture all you want from what others say about how a powder will perform but until you try you don't know and the issue likely isn't a powder problem so much as a compatibility issue. Your a little quick to jump on TAC. YMMV.

for 55 gr, 24.5 is a mid-range load good for just plinking I'd say. I run 25 in mine all the time and it functions wellfor just run of the mill ammo

for the 62 gr. Ss109 bullet many folks are using 25, 25.5 and 26gr for it.


for my DPMS M4, 25.5 shoots the 109s just fine. The ss109s I have all came from wideners so they may be PRVIs

I guess I'm in the minority here. I was really impressed the first time I ever used it...burned clean for me & chrono'd exactly where I figured it would with all five bullets I used the last time I was at the range.
I used the Barnes # 4 for reference & velocities were very consistant & in line with the published data.
Rifle used was 20" AR.

Funny.....just this weekend I tried 24.5gr with 62gr TSX in my T3.

It was a little cool at around 40 degrees but my velocity was about 200 fps less then what the barnes data suggests at 2850fps. Three shots grouped about 2.5"!!!

55gr BTs with 26gr were running about 3100fps and could be covered with a nickel.

I think powders burn cleaner at the higher operating pressures, say up around 60k psi, don't they???

If so, when TAC is burning dirty it probably needs a bit more to up the pressure and get it to clean itself up.

The other factor is, of course, that rifles vary. In one of my .223's Varget works better than TAC with heavy bullets--but in all three of my .223's (a sporter-weight bolt with a 1-9 twist, a heavy-barrel bolt with a 1-12 twist, and 16" AR with a 1-9x twist) 26.0 grains of TAC and a 50-grain bullet works as well as anything else, and far better than most.

I have mentioned this before, but it probably bears repeating: I have found all the Ramshot rifle powders work far better when at maximum pressures. By this I don't mean pushing the limits, but at 60,000 psi or so. At lower pressures they burn dirtier and accuracy normally isn't all that great.

The 223 is a 55K cartridge right?

That's the SAAMI rating, but CIP is 62,000. And pressure rating is always approximate, due to measuring differences. For instance the .22-250 has a lower CIP rating than it's SAAMI rating--though theoretically the ammo is loaded to the same pressure.

Could the primer have something to do with dirty burning?

John, is there a particular primer you prefer with your TAC 223 loads? I started with WSR and have recently moved to CCI450s since that was about all I could find at the time. I have not noticed any difference.

A few of us around here, north central Washington, all shoot .223 Rem with 77 MK's over 23.6 of Tac, very accurate past 600 in our AR-15's 8 and 9 twist heavy barrels.

Been running 26.5 with Hornady 50 VMax and 26.0 with Sierra 55 Spitzers and getting great accuracy in a M700 VS and an older Kimber of O Model 84. I use Rem 7 1/2 (preferred) but switched to WSR when the 7 1/2's ran low and I can't really tell a difference. But then Winchester primers are supposed to be fairly hot anyway.

Am also getting almost exactly the speed Ramshot lists for TAC with the 150 Hornady SP in a 22" M700 .308. Loading their top load of 46.5 grains and getting right at 2890 fps with really excellent accuracy as well. Using Fed 210's with that load in the .308.