Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Interesting R-17 Read

Enjoy, guys.

http://www.6mmbr.com/reloder17.html

Very cool. Thanks.

That's a pretty old article. It got everyone really excited cause here are the experts with pressure testing equipment talking about 250 fps increases.
The wierd thing is that once it hit the general market the claims didn't seem to pan out.
I can't explain why. Seems like no one I know of is eaking more than about 50-75fps out of most calibers than they were with their favorite powders.
Maybe it had something to do with tight chambers, long barrels....or just plain voodoo but it hasn't panned out to be the "mirracle" the article got us excited about. A good powder yes....a huge jump in ballistics.....not really.

I look at it this way, on average were not losing velocity and I'm getting .401" group at 100 yards out of a Stevens 30-06.

So when compared to the powder its replacing, I'm spending the same amount of money; getting slightly higher velocity; the same accuracy; oh and MOST important ... I can find it.

I was one of the first guys here to post that link and I purchased 8 lb of RL-17 over a year ago. I tried it in several cartridges and it DID perform with much higher velocities in SOME rifles.

I tried it in several rifles with mixed results.


The 284 win and 6mm rem surpassed any previous load I had ever seen with any powder. The 284 with a moly coated 150 from a 23" barrel went up to 3200 fps and no pressure signs, with an accuracy load at 3100. The 6mm rem with a 100 gr nosler pt and a 22" barrel was very accurate at 3325 fps.
Those two cases are the right size to capitalize on this powder.

A 24" 7 Rem mag performed pretty much the same as RL-22 with a 150 Nosler BT.

A 358 win performed with slower velocities than RL-15

A blanket statement that it doesn't perform as Bob Jensen and German Salazar said in the link is a false generalization. It depends on the size of the case and its expansion ratio.

Personally I look forward to the other new powders, that are similar to RL-17's characteristics, being offered by Alliant. For some strange reason they will be called the Power Pro series. Nitrochemie the manufacturer of RL-17 is making them for Alliant and they will have similar characteristics such as long burning curve with little velocity change over a wide range of temperatures.

I recently had an e-mail answer from Ben Ammonette, consumer service manager for Alliant. He said:

"We hope the first of the Power Pro series, 300MP (magnum pistol) and 4000MR (magnum rifle) will be released this spring. Later in the year wehope to have "Varmint", 2000MR (medium rifle), 3000LR (large rifle)ready to go. More information will be available closer to release time"

I ran out and bought 6 pounds of the stuff several months ago and about 5 3/4 is still under the loading bench. I have not been impressed!

I look forward to the new series, too, but Rheinmetall (German defense contractor parent of Nitrochemie) is not making them.

The PowerPro series of propellants are all sphericals made in the USA. That alone strongly suggests that they're being manufactured by General Dynamics at St. Marks, FL, but the current issue of Handloader magazine has an article on 300-MP which states outright that the entire PowerPro line is made at St. Marks.

Among other aspects of the shooting sport, I love to reload as I assume many of us like to do. Trying new combination's of caliber, projectile, ignition, case, and powder. I've had great success with Hybrid V100 and RL17. I'm looking forward to getting my hands on Alliant's new line as well as IMR's 8208XBR. Also, Alliant recently entered into an agreement with the makers of Black Mag3 to repackage it under their moniker called Black Dot.

Thanks for posting this, interesting read and informative!!!!!

I stand corrected. The power pro series is going to be made in the US. When I had my original phone conversation with Ben Ammonette he told me the 4000 powder was made the same way as RL-17 with similar characteristics. I assumed that it would be made by the same compnay. Perhaps the better statement would be that 4000 powder is formulated the same way as Nitrochemie's RL-17.

I agree with Azshooter that RL-17 does indeed give some appreciable velocity gains in certain cartridges. 3100 fps with a 140 gr bullet is achievable with zero pressure signs in my 284 win with a 24" barrel. Haven't even tried to push it beyond that, in fact, settled on a 1/2 gr less which still pushes a 140 gr TTSX at 3070 fps. It also works very well with 160 gr bullets - 2900 fps again with no pressure signs. Good accuracy as well. You can also safely reach very good velocities in the 7wsm with this powder. I too am looking forward to the new powders. If RL-17 is any indication, it looks like there may not be real breakthrough powders, but some that provide some defininte incremental gains. And I'm all for that.

What cartridge(s)?

It is the chit for 300WSM's. Easy speed and accuracy!

Be quiet and try to buy the leftovers from him!

$15 a lb sounds about right.

I've tried it in the 25-06, 270, 280, and a 7mm WSM. Velocities were less than and at best equal to other powders, but accuracy was dismal. Maybe I need some coaching in it's use?

I've tried it in an '06 and a 338-06. See my post about a "slow Springfield" for comments on the results in that rifle. I'm looking forward to testing it in my other 30-06 whose stock I'm refinishing right now.

In the 338-06 I got velocities and accuracy in line w/ other powders, however those powders are very sensative to temperature where as RL-17 isn't. I've also not completed testing (have yet to hit what I consider "pressure ceiling" for the particular bullet/charge combos tested) so who knows what all will come of it.

Note some important points about those articles, as others have noted in this thread:

The cartridges those gents are loading are significantly different from those I've mentioned above. Their powder columns are substantially shorter, they have less capacity, and are of a much smaller caliber.

Also, the rifles they're shooting are a lot different than our hunting rifles. Mine all sport 22-24" tubes, while theirs are +30".

Bottom line... we all need new rifles in short, stumpy overbore cases with really long barrels to get the most out of this powder. If you have a big cannister of the stuff lying around and haven't experienced the results these guys have, you owe it to yourself and your friends on this board to buy a new rifle .

Thats my story and I'm stickin' to it... as I go out and buy another 5 lbs of RL-17...

Bluedog and Azshooter, tell me a bit about your 284win rifles. Are they LA or SA builds?

As an aside, I did not see anything remarkable regarding velocities with RL17 and my 25-284. This was with 110gr bullets and RL22/IMR4350/IMR4831 all gave similar velocities before showing pressure. I'll be trying that powder again soon with 100gr bullets. I can't yet break away from H4350 in my 243's or 260 since I have about 7lbs or so sitting on the shelf.

I've only tried it in two 300WSM's but it worked out great both of 'em.
Top accuracy is about a grain less than max loads but I still get about 50fps more velocity over similiar H4350 loads.

JPro

My experience with RL17 is that the heavier the bullet in any given caliber the better the powder performs. I don't think that you will gain anything by going to it with a 100grn bullet over a 110. Although I do not have a 25-284 so I have not done any testing with that caliber so take this with a grain of salt.

How do you guys come up w/ start loads on the RL-17 in the 25-284 (I suppose you're used to that issue in that rifle) cuz I'm looking to try it out in my 257 AI.

Mine LOVES IMR-4350 w/ 100s so I'm sure this stuff will do well, just unsure where to start. Was thinking about taking list start-loads of H-4350 and work up from there. I've noticed that this rifle always likes warmer loads (within 1 grain of max) so I'm sure that'd be safe...

Good thread all!

Yep, I began with 4350 charges, backed off by a few grains. I was running two different brands of brass, so the capacities and charge weights were not exactly the same, but 4350 is a good starting point.

Jpro,

My 284 is an old tang safety M77. It was originally a 6mm Rem. When the barrel got tired I consulted with the late Harry Lawson and he suggested I have them install a rem takeoff originally in 7 Rem Mag. They cut off approx 3/4" off the shank and rechambered for the 284. The barrels I have used to date started at 24" so the final product is approx 23".

The box magazine was lengthened to 3.1" so bullets can be seated out to touch the rifling. I get better results with the rem barrels by moly treating them.

I also found that RL-17 doesn't give its best accuracy at the uppermost loading. I got a 150 to go 3200 but accuracy was better at 3100 fps.


Hope this answers your questions.

Good info. Thanks!

JPro,
My 284 is a late NH Model 70 in 7mm-08 that was a 24" SS "Ultimate Shadow". All I had done was to have the action trued and the barrel reamed to 284 win. I picked up a McMillan Edge here (altho the duratouch stock wasn't that bad), and she's about 6-6 without scope. I like the cartridge a lot - it is one of those that will really sing with RL-17. I picked the Win SA because of the COL allowed - this allows taking full advangtage of the case capacity. The Hodgdon website has some updated data for this gun, if you're interested. It took a little work on the magazine feed lips, but now it feeds and cycles very nicely, very reliably. I've taken three deer with it in the last couple of years, shooting the 140 TTSX. It's one I won't be getting rid of.
bludog

Thanks JPro!

I'm going to start working some up as soon as I have appropriate primers and I'll use H-4350 start loads.

Run it hotter--my guess is your groups will tighten up as the pressures head toward maximum.

The Reloder 17 has pushed 150's from my 300 WSM at 3400 fps. Pretty significant in my opinion.

Shows promise in my 30-06. No pressure signs so I'm gonna keep going up to see if I can hit 2700 fps

Wow, is your rifle still in one piece.

I did some shooting yesterday with moly 100gr SSII's in my 25-284. W-W cases and a 2.81" OAL. It was about 55 degrees out.

H4350 maxed out at 52gr with a 3200+/- FPS muzzle velocity. Any hotter, and I got light ejector marks.

Running a grain-for-grain workup with RL17 gave me 3320fps with 52.5gr and no pressure signs at all. That velocity is fine by me but I may bump it up to 53 as a test to make sure I'm not on the ragged edge come warm weather.

Trying a new and slower lot of RL22 gave me 3175fps at 55.5gr with no pressure signs. There may be some room to move up there, but I don't think it will be able to run with the RL17.