Home Forums Lever Action Central Marlin 336 Lever Actions Mounting older K4 scope on 336. What mounts?

I just picked up a 1968 336 in .35 Rem and wanted to keep the gun somewhat true to it's mfg. date.

I have a K4 heavy duplex scope on the way to stick on top of it.

My question is, will the current Weaver 1 peice mount be long enough to position the scope forward?

I noticed the K4's Elev. & Wind. knobs are postioned more towards the obj. bell.

I have seen older, longer mounts for the 336 that extended out past the reciever and almost touched the front site on the bbl.

Does anyone know where I could get one of these if the newer Weaver base isn't long enough?

Thanks,

JM

John Moses..

Is your scope an Elk Paso made? Weaver only cataloged one Duplex reticle during the enitre El Paso run. Not two.

Also, I am curious, what is the suffix on after the k-4 marking on the scope? It will give you an approximate date as to when it was made and also if it has the undesirable plastic lense cells/end caps on each end.

If it has ANY letter past "B" on it as a suffix, it has plastic lense cells. They were made between 1965 and 1973.

If it has either 60 or 60B it will have Aluminum lense cells and would have been made from about 19567 to 1965 .If it has -1 after the K-4 it will either steel or alumunim . The -1 scopes were made from 1973 until the plant closed in 1983.

As to the mounts, I would give the existing base a chance. Due to the long 336 reciever, I would bet that while the adjustment turret will be right bheind that front scope ring, it should be far enough forward for proper eye relief.

Also, there is one distadvatage to longe mounts that hang forward a great deal unsupproted by the reciver or barrel and that is flex. The shorter ,stouter mount is stronger and that is most likely why they were changed over the years.

Hi Jim,

I already own one 336, but it wears a leupy, so there were no issues with getting the eye relief right.

The scope that is on the way is a K4-F, has a duplex reticle (not thin wire) and says made in USA according to the seller, whom I trust.

Never had any experience with these scopes, I read somewhere that they were made in Colo. after the El Paso place closed, but before they were manufactured in Japan.

Hence the made in the USA stamp.

Best,

JM

If your scope is a K-4-f it is right in the ball park of your rifle date + or - say 2 years either way.

The bad news is that it WILL have those plastic parts.

But that is the era your scope was made.. so that is what it should have.

To knowlege, no Weaver scopes were every made in Colorado..If they were, they must be pretty darned rare, because you are the first hman being to ever mentioned it to me and I have never heard of or seen anyone with a colorado built Weaver??.

The only two rifle scope makers that were ever in Colorado to my knowlege have been Redield and Burris.

Now PENTAX has had Burris make scopes for them in Colorado. So has Browning . I think they had BOTH Redfield and Burris make scopes for them at various times in the 1960s and 1970s..

I had a writer account with Blount in the late 1980s and knew Allan Jones in their PR dept fairly well. I tested some of the very early Japanese scopes they made in the late 1980s.

From what I understood, Blount bough the marketing rights for the Weaver line from Olin around 1984. They got the Mount busninsss up and running about then and within a few years had outsourced the WEaver scopes to Japan.. no Colorado in bewteen.

Jim,

This is where I read it. The original poster had a scope that said "Made in USA" vs. "Made in El Paso".




JM

Unfortunately, he is mistaken..

They closed the plant in EL PASO in 1983-84.

They NEVER had a plant in Colorado.

Maybe he was confusing them with Redfield..

Or just confused..

For years,Redfeild actualy had two plants -the Main plant in Denver and a lense grinding facilty in Durango. Burris has always been in Greeley.

No Weaver plant in Colorado though and never moved to Colorado to my knowelge.

Actually, John the reason why I know quite a bit about Weaver scopes is I have been gathering material for a short history /collectors guide on Weaver for about the last 8 years. I have at least one copy of just about every known brochure and catalog printed during the El Paso era on file Archiveal notebnooks that are a total of 8 inches thick. I have a lot of material gathered and of sutdied almost all of it pretty carfefully.

Ever see a letter personally signed by Bill Weaver? I have 3 or 4 of them that were included in correspondence to dealers in the 1930's , before he got so busy they went to a signature stamp..

I have several early 1980s catalogs that actual say where the factory is(and show pictures)..

And guess what,

It ain't in Colorado..LOL

Okay, to the original question:

John, you'll have no problem mounting the K4-F on the standard rail for a 336. BT/DT, several times over.

It's a standard duplex. If for some reason I led you to believe it was a heavy duplex, I stand correct.

As for the scope being made in the U.S., it was. As to Colorado vs. El Paso, I'd always been led to believe, my men I trust, that the post "El Paso" vintage scopes were Denver made. I may be mistaken, but then so too would they be, and most of those guys have more than a passing knowledge of the industry. However, I and they may be mistaken. That's still irrelevant.

Simply put, John, if this scope is not to your liking, there is a K4 60-B post-and-crosshair (very rare version; i.e., not your standard) that's yours for the asking or the preference should the K4-F not pass muster.

Clear things up any?

Thanks,

I will like it fine, I'm sure. Can't wait to stick it on that marlin and give it to my Dad.

His was stolen a few years back and he loved that rifle. He's got Browning HighPowers and pre 64 Win's. but just about always took that 336 with a K4.

He hunts with a 7MM-08 Micro Medallion I got him, but always comments on how he misses his 35.

I appreciate it Va. Thanks again.

Jm

Sean, Thank you for that post.

Two points here...

First of all PLEASE do not take the information I posted as in ANY way trying to make John unhappy with his new scope . He wanted a 1968 vintge Weaver and that is pretty much what he is getting given the "F" suffix. And I bet it is a fine example of one at that.

I have let him know via PM that as long as his scope is in good shape, the plastic lense cells would be just fine..Especially on a later "post B" scope.

Second, as to your Weaver - Colorado information, if you have any proof of that or folks I could contact to verify it I would appreciate it a great deal.

I may be wrong, but as far as I know, after the El Paso plant closed, NO scopes were made or sold under the Weaver brand made anywhere else until about 1987-87..When Blount started sourcing them from Japan...

That has to do with the fact for a while, in 1983-84 Olin WAS trying to find a buyer for the scope plant. So, things were in limbo for a while until Blount decided what they were going to to.

If there is anything that can be verified that is contrary to that I really would like to know for my own use.

Sincerely, all joking aside..

A real steel tube El Paso Weaver K-4 is a fine scope and are marked El Paso on the tube. El Paso steel tube Weavers were never made with duplex reticles. CH, PCH, Dot&CH and multi dot.

Here is a late El Paso K4

Oldman..

John's k-4-F is perfectly Kosher with Duplex style reticle.

Any "El Paso" Weaver is ANY Weaver scope made in El Paso by them from about 1935 to 1983 when the factory closed.

It does not matter if it is marked "El Paso, Texas" or not.

The Weaver catalogues I have on hand which are copyright coded 1-68 DO show the "Dual X" reticle being offered new for 1968. The Dual X was their trade name for the Duplex.

And, from what I have seen on the markings on various Weaver scopes, the Weavers were marked "El Paso,TX" WELL after the Dual X was introduced until about 1973.



Here is the 1968 Weaver catolog mentioned showing front and back covers.




Note the copyright date code at the bottom of the back cover- 1-68





Here is page 28 of the catalog. Notice the Dual-X reticle at the top..

Very cool.

FWIW, I think I still have the original box and papers around here on one of my old Weavers. Gotta dive into the debris pile this weekend and see if I can find it.

Thanks for the info Jim,

I had no idea that a scope maker was producing a ranging reticle at that time. That's pretty neat.

That old catalog is way cool.

JM

Show me a steel tube El Paso marked Weaver with a duplex and I'll admit to learning something.
Yup I have steel tube El Paso K4 with ranging double CH on my TC 22 RF semi-auto.
Been meaning to put it on Ebay as I have a 3 dot 6X Kollmorgen to replace it.

Ahh..

In your FIRST post you say "El Paso, Weaver"..

Now you say "El Paso Marked.."

You can play word games all you want, but the fact is , an " El Paso" Weaver is ANY scope made in their El Paso plants from 1935 to 1983.

Period.

They don't HAVE to be marked "El Paso" to be El Paso Weavers.

Any more than every Leupold scope with Made in the USA on it was not made in Beaverton, Oregon.

LOT'S of the post 1968 ,El Paso made Weavers have duplex reticles.

I am sorry you are too small minded to admit it.

Shouldn't be a problem..I usually inserted a flip down rear sight to solve those situations. Also you may want to invest in one of thos lever extensions that stick out the right side, makes cocking the lever a snap..and the cost is minimal..I think Brownells has them.

Thanks Atkinson. The rifle has the older JM hammer extension which I like.

My concern was if the weaver mount would be spaced correctly to allow the scope to be mounted properly.

I have seen some wearing K4's that had the eye piece too far back.

This was caused by the K4's elevation and adjustment knobs hitting the forward ring.

There wasn't enough ring space to push the scope forward to it's proper position.

This is the type of mount I was looking for. It's a 336 with a K4. Low, yet I'm able to get the scope positioned forward.

looks to be a great setup for that rifle. Your dad is a lucky guy, great job!

The standard rail should work like that, and the set-up will look EXACTLY like that.

JohnMoses, Looks like that rifle in the above pic has the old Weaver pivot mount/ring set-up. Are you looking for a set of those? I believe the pivot base for the Marlins was only avail as a one-piece. The Pivot model was a unique set-up and were not compatible with the tip-off rings. Right Jim?

BTW: I have an old 1963 Shooter's Bible and it does not show a duplex reticle for the Weaver line. Jim's 1968 Weaver catalog shows the duplex being available, saying it was "new". So I would surmise that the duplex was introduced into the Weaver line in the '67-'68 timeframe? I have a later V9 (1975 or so) with the duplex. A damn fine scope it is too.

Second BTW: Another scope made in Denver was Kollmorgen, whose rifle scope line was bought-out by.....Redfield.

comparing a Kollmorgen to a Weaver is like comparing a Zeiss to a Tasco.

I have a K4-1 on my desk right now. IT IS A DUPLEX!
Don't make me get out my camera.